[Resolved] Staff Complaint-1138

[Bygonehero]

BYOND Key: Bygonehero

Staff BYOND Key: OneOneThreeEight

Game ID: N/A

Reason for complaint: Concerns about actually reaching fair judgements if they ever did control the outcome of a judgement.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks: I've been constantly compared to something I did 3 years ago by OneOneThreeEight. Not only is this insane, but it makes me distrust that anything they have a hand in is actually performed in a objective manner, regarding myself. I'm not the best player, but I think everyone should be treated fairly within reason by the admin team and for 1138 to continue to hold a ideal of me for three years isn't me being treated fairly. About a year ago from today, I spoke to skull about 1138 about this very issue but its not gotten better.

Frankly. I'm convinced that to 1138 I will always be this way towards me, and the more chummy he gets with other staff, the more I feel it will color their perceptions about me, before any facts about the situation are actually looked into.

[Scheveningen]

Frankly. I'm convinced that to 1138 I will always be this way towards me, and the more chummy he gets with other staff, the more I feel it will color their perceptions about me, before any facts about the situation are actually looked into.

 

This is an April Fools joke, right?

I really have no comment for this complaint, sorry.

[Bygonehero]

I've already had reason to distrust some of the staff.

Game ID: bMt-aKph

ShameonTurtles handles my issue, despite it directly involving him and ignores any explanations otherwise. Yes there were admins on at the time.

I've been told to delete my character, then the next round told not to delete my character, which then needs to be deleted the next round.

I've gotten a warning to not report bugs.

Given the low opinion you have of me, and apparently will always have for me, how can I trust that any decision you make will ever be impartial?You want to know why I communicate my grievances in LOOC? because I don't think admins (some of them anyway) give a shit, some of them give special treatment to others but none of them have been as overt as you.

[Shadow]

Since this didnt get logged properly I just have to ask.

Did delta stop after Ricky told him to stop?

I am lacking context so it would be nice to know how this came up.

[Bygonehero]

It was a traitor AI autotraitor round, the end got particularly bloody, but nothing that wasn't approved by admins. He did stop, but to be fair the round was ending anyway. He brought all of this up after some players voiced their opinions about the round, some of them good, some of them bad.

Mostly the players were blaming me for the bloodbath but I was telling them that security fired on us first, which they did in this round.

[Scheveningen]

Since this didnt get logged properly I just have to ask.

Did delta stop after Ricky told him to stop?

I am lacking context so it would be nice to know how this came up.

I don't have a ton of logs to support my case here so my word is going to have to do based on what I observed and experienced throughout the round.

Throughout the course of this round, the OP complained in AOOC and LOOC about the AI, borgs and security team doing their jobs in arresting the Vaurca nurse who was a vampire, as well as repeatedly misusing Dominate commands. I was one of the borgs that was forced to change to security module to deal with the situation and I made the decision to overflash a screeching uncooperative Vaurca that was mean, rude not just OOCly but also highly anti-social ICly, and also encouraging the destruction of the AI. One of the crewmembers they dominated set up an emitter pointed at the core of the AI, so this was an issue that needed to be dealt with.

Bygone was a very unsubtle threat to the station, despite the fact that vampire is best played stealthily so as to not attract suspicion and put an end to their round prematurely, and that consequence is pretty much what ended up happening. Though an admin argued it wasn't 100% necessary, I felt the necessity to disable them as a threat as they were the centerpiece and primary cause of all of the chaos going on due to their mostly unexplained talent in being able to subvert crewmembers to commit crimes.

To the AI's perception, the nursing intern was committing crimes and anyone that came into remote contact with them decided the nursing intern was immediately innocent or they assisted them in destroying station property. Though we had cause to declare the crew as compromised and call for outside help, CC had already faxed earlier saying to resolve it internally if it was just one person. Not wanting to create large-scale issues the AI just ordered myself to detain them by any means necessary and neutralize the threat without killing the crewmember. Rendering the specific unsubtle vampire completely blind was a last resort measure as previous methods of normal detainment failed due to security letting them go immediately. Vampires can also heal off organ damage with blood heal, including damage done to the eyes or the brain.

Bygone even went so far as to LOOC and tell a maintenance drone, Chada1 at the time, to stop repairing broken windows that BygoneHero themselves broke. Or more verbatim, "You can't just repair those windows". The drone responded in LOOC saying that they have laws that make them do so and they only coincidentally happened upon the windows being destroyed anyway. Honestly for the majority of the time where I was watching logs it was a lot of angry raging coming from them. Never really seen so much complaining come from someone over a round, nor the vitriol attached to it.

Maybe I was out of line, but it felt it necessary to call out the OP's attitude and hypocrisy, especially considering whenever they play as AI or a borg they do the exact same thing in ruthlessly validhunting antagonists and seeking ways to take them out of the round as soon as humanly possible. Seeing them at the shorter end of the stick and complaining that was the hand they were dealt just showed a complete lack of self-awareness. That much hasn't changed from Apollo. I made my comment and stopped, because that was all that needed to be said in response to the amount of whining the OP did in the round without bothering to adminhelp any issues they had doubts over until they got flashed repeatedly. Other than that case they spent most of the round nagging people in LOOC over their actions when no one really asked to be chewed out for innocuous roleplay events.

Then there's this complaint focused on "fuck you and the admins, nobody trusts me and you're all out to get me", so that's nice. I'd honestly suggest keeping the conspiratorial stuff to yourself. If the staff wanted to remove you a reason would've been found to do so by now. You even had your perma lifted under the previous fun circumstances to play here, and it seems like it'd take a fair bit of forgiveness to get that done and over with. Just consider that, really.

Honestly, if the OP wants to be rude, mean and act like a dick to people they should learn to pick their fights better and not act surprised and upset when people snark back.

[Bygonehero]

A few things. The log I posted wasn't from the round you are talking about I'm pretty sure. I was a traitor AI on an auto traitor round.

As for this round you are mentioning, it is what convinced me to make this report.

I misused dominate once that round and immediately fixed it. It was also a relatively low pop round, and no one died from anything I told them. Most of the round was actually RPing with people until I was locked out of medical, and bolted wherever I go.

Second, I didn't try to harm anyone until I was bolted everywhere I went and the only people that were being harmed were the AI and its borgs. I don't think it's fair that an AI can decide to not trust security officers decisions because of suspected mind control it has no evidence for and then decide to harm a crewmember by permanently blinding them.

You blinded me and handcuffed me before I used any power except dominate. I'm not sure how that's unsubtle, and Blood Heal doesn't heal eye damage. I used it to no effect.

The fact that it's you, and you dismiss my concerns out of hand even though you're involved is why I make this complaint. I can't speak for Ricky, but I did my best to make the round entertaining for everyone and how I was treated that round clarified your position to me. The fact you're trying to justify your actions

 

Maybe I was out of line, but it felt it necessary to call out the OP's attitude and hypocrisy, especially considering whenever they play as AI or a borg they do the exact same thing in ruthlessly validhunting antagonists and seeking ways to take them out of the round as soon as humanly possible. Seeing them at the shorter end of the stick and complaining that was the hand they were dealt just showed a complete lack of self-awareness. That much hasn't changed from Apollo. I made my comment and stopped, because that was all that needed to be said in response to the amount of whining the OP did in the round without bothering to adminhelp any issues they had doubts over until they got flashed repeatedly. Other than that case they spent most of the round nagging people in LOOC over their actions when no one really asked to be chewed out for innocuous roleplay events.

 

By characterizing me as a valid hunter based on something Three Years ago tells me you don't know anything about me. I don't remember the last time I've killed an antag as AI and even if you're right, even if all of this is correct. Why bring it up in OOC? Why try to stir up shit at all?

[DatBerry]

It was a traitor AI autotraitor round, the end got particularly bloody, but nothing that wasn't approved by admins. He did stop, but to be fair the round was ending anyway. He brought all of this up after some players voiced their opinions about the round, some of them good, some of them bad.

Mostly the players were blaming me for the bloodbath but I was telling them that security fired on us first, which they did in this round.

 

just to clarify, neither sec nor the synths shot first, the AI at the time was showing obvious signs of being nuts, locking us down and all but never shooting, then the secborg comes awfully close to me so i flash it, whack it a bit and try to lock it in a room, only for it to come back and try to laser me and the CMO

[Scheveningen]

I've already had reason to distrust some of the staff.

Game ID: bMt-aKph

ShameonTurtles handles my issue, despite it directly involving him and ignores any explanations otherwise. Yes there were admins on at the time.

I've been told to delete my character, then the next round told not to delete my character, which then needs to be deleted the next round.

I've gotten a warning to not report bugs.

Given the low opinion you have of me, and apparently will always have for me, how can I trust that any decision you make will ever be impartial?You want to know why I communicate my grievances in LOOC? because I don't think admins (some of them anyway) give a shit, some of them give special treatment to others but none of them have been as overt as you.

 

 

You posted a very old game ID, for one thing, and it doesn't match your story of this being a traitor AI round. I made that statement during the following round:

 

 

I'm not sure whether to categorize your misquoting of a round from a few months ago as a legitimate mistake especially since I was not a trial mod during the month of January, and the game ID you are citing was an extended round.

I made the comment explicitly in the context of your AOOC/OOC/LOOC incessant complaining in regards to the AI/borgs and security dealing with you as a vampire. And this was Thursday as I recall.

[Bygonehero]

The game ID had nothing to do with you. It was the game ID that Shameonturtles was dealing with me.

[Chada1]

I guess I count as involved since I was mentioned, (?) Yes, I'm confirming I was a Maintenance Drone in the round mentioned, and Bygone though you might've been a little on edge, I wasn't breaking my Laws by repairing that window, especially when you weren't near it or anything, I definitely didn't acknowledge your existence, it was to the point that you or your pal could've walked up and wacked the Drone even. My interpretation of 'Interact' is that I shouldn't acknowledge your existence in any way. It was a little much to LOOC at me that i'm breaking my Laws, you'd have been better off Ahelping there, and i'd have explained my reasoning to a Mod, and if I were really in violation of my Laws they'd have told me.

I have some experience with Bygone and 1138, this isn't the first time Bygone has brought up IC in LOOC against me, last time was much more aggressive, he low-key attacked me over Binary, (In OOC brackets) for my IC actions, which were actually entirely justified, as he learned later. But I don't know if I can really bring that up here any further, since it was dealt with by a Staffmember. (1138, as a matter of fact)

The vibes I get from 1138 is that they can be rude, and associate and remember a lot of past stuff with people, like maybe they need to be told to chime down a little bit on that, but i've never seen a ruling they've done that's actually been that questionable, yet, anyway, but i'm not gonna name anything. The issue is probably just that they're not very careful with what they say, but yeah I don't think they're biased. If this doesn't count as involved please inform me and i'll avoid doing it again in the future.

[Scheveningen]

Bygone. You brought that up to highlight how much you distrust the staff because of a singular situation where game events didn't go your way and the staff didn't have your back for it, or something? That entirely makes sense, but is it remotely appropriate to bring up in a complaint against someone else entirely?

[ShameOnTurtles]

I've already had reason to distrust some of the staff.

Game ID: bMt-aKph

ShameonTurtles handles my issue, despite it directly involving him and ignores any explanations otherwise. Yes there were admins on at the time.

I've been told to delete my character, then the next round told not to delete my character, which then needs to be deleted the next round.

[...]

You want to know why I communicate my grievances in LOOC? because I don't think admins (some of them anyway) give a shit, some of them give special treatment to others but none of them have been as overt as you.

 

Could you clarify this for me? I honestly can't recall anything from January involving you.

please don't take the thread off track, but the mystery must be solved.

Also, not communicating your problems to staff doesn't help our perceptions of you, but we try, when determining if X did wrong, to remain impartial. Going through the proper channels (like this complaint) is the best thing to do. When determining punishments on server, depending on the level of punishment, it's usually run past other staff on the server first. If you feel one person wants you to crash and burn, they'll be tempered by others.

[Bygonehero]

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7667

This is the particular instance turtles, in any event you handled the issue despite that one of the people who were being mimicked (and had a problem with it) was you. It was only later did I find out that admins are expected to not administer an event that they themselves were apart of.

Despite this, all of this it isn't possible to prove if turtles was bias or not in the situation, and indeed it's not what this complaint is about. This is about overt bias I will never ever overcome to 1138, a prospective member of the administration staff. They've made abundantly clear that their perspective of me will not change, ever. I am afraid then what will happen if I am ever in a situation that this person can decide the rightness or wrongness of my actions when whether or not they are is already a moot point.

[Scheveningen]

Hey man.

It's not a giant conspiracy. A single comment over OOC about how you should probably have a bit of self-awareness should not automatically anger someone unless they had some serious insecurities about someone else commenting on their own behavior. How does me commenting on the fact that you've been one of the most notable cases of validhunting in the past indicate I'm biased? It's true, it's not a point of contention. You honestly expect no one to call that particular detail in your own history out when you decide to moan about "validhunters" and "shitsec" ruining your video games?

What do you actually seek to accomplish with the complaint, exactly?

If you are upset that I do not think particularly highly of you then I'm sorry to say that you're going to meet people who don't think highly of you throughout your entire life. That really sucks that you feel that way, but at the end of the day I could not actually care enough to be capable of planning out some unexplained conspiratorial attempt to remove you from the server. I figure if any staff member on the team wanted to do that, for example, they would have found a way to do so without so much as giving a person the chance to complain about bias. I have, however, given you multiple chances, and I will continue to keep giving you chances if I'm led to believe you'll actually improve your attitude and decide to mature. Don't expect me to be silent when you're acting out of line.

Consider that you, your words (particularly the chronic complaining) and your actions usually hold the most effect in people's judgements of you, so as much as anyone's gonna frown about me saying that's your problem and not mine, that is just how it is.

[Bygonehero]

Hey man.

It's not a giant conspiracy. A single comment over OOC about how you should probably have a bit of self-awareness should not automatically anger someone unless they had some serious insecurities about someone else commenting on their own behavior. How does me commenting on the fact that you've been one of the most notable cases of validhunting in the past indicate I'm biased? It's true, it's not a point of contention. You honestly expect no one to call that particular detail in your own history out when you decide to moan about "validhunters" and "shitsec" ruining your video games?

What do you actually seek to accomplish with the complaint, exactly?

If you are upset that I do not think particularly highly of you then I'm sorry to say that you're going to meet people who don't think highly of you throughout your entire life. That really sucks that you feel that way, but at the end of the day I could not actually care enough to be capable of planning out some unexplained conspiratorial attempt to remove you from the server. I figure if any staff member on the team wanted to do that, for example, they would have found a way to do so without so much as giving a person the chance to complain about bias. I have, however, given you multiple chances, and I will continue to keep giving you chances if I'm led to believe you'll actually improve your attitude and decide to mature. Don't expect me to be silent when you're acting out of line.

Consider that you, your words (particularly the chronic complaining) and your actions usually hold the most effect in people's judgements of you, so as much as anyone's gonna frown about me saying that's your problem and not mine, that is just how it is.

 

You've said the same thing over the course of years.Sometimes with long stretches of time where I do not see or interact with you in any way. In this very complaint you've already called me a valid hunting synthetic, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying your bias. You will always be bias, and you do not care if someone does anything different than your preconceived notions and if not just for me, but for many people. Someone like that shouldn't be an admin.

In any event, me explaining this to you over and over again isn't constructive to the complaint, neither is your attacks on me, implied or otherwise. If you've nothing else to add, please allow the investigation to progress in this complaint.

[Scheveningen]

Someone like that shouldn't be an admin.

Good for you that I am not, right?

You need to dial back and relax.

[ShameOnTurtles]

In no way do I mean to derail this thread further, as you've already stated my part isn't the main focus of your complaint, but I feel I need to clear this up.

This is the particular instance turtles, in any event you handled the issue despite that one of the people who were being mimicked (and had a problem with it) was you. It was only later did I find out that admins are expected to not administer an event that they themselves were apart of.

Now that I've read the appeal again, I remember the situation. I'm really not sure what gave you the impression that I was directly involved, considering I was in the lobby the entire time - possibly barring at the end when I observed. Creating baseless accusations of bias isn't the correct way to go about this complaint. If you suspected foul play then, you should have stepped forward so you weren't sitting with false information this entire time. As I said before, decisions are run through the staff on the server much of the time. My decision in that instance is no exception.

As far as I'm aware, if you feel a staff member cannot remain unbiased and respectful you can request another handle it - as long as you do have that valid reason.

[Bygonehero]

In no way do I mean to derail this thread further, as you've already stated my part isn't the main focus of your complaint, but I feel I need to clear this up.

This is the particular instance turtles, in any event you handled the issue despite that one of the people who were being mimicked (and had a problem with it) was you. It was only later did I find out that admins are expected to not administer an event that they themselves were apart of.

Now that I've read the appeal again, I remember the situation. I'm really not sure what gave you the impression that I was directly involved, considering I was in the lobby the entire time - possibly barring at the end when I observed. Creating baseless accusations of bias isn't the correct way to go about this complaint. If you suspected foul play then, you should have stepped forward so you weren't sitting with false information this entire time. As I said before, decisions are run through the staff on the server much of the time. My decision in that instance is no exception.

As far as I'm aware, if you feel a staff member cannot remain unbiased and respectful you can request another handle it - as long as you do have that valid reason.

 

You were on your roboticists Astor Shaner that round, the one with one arm. I asked others before I said anything but it turns out they were wrong. Your right, turtles my bad.

[Scheveningen]

Turtles does not play Astor Shaner. That is Canadiandollar.

Regardless, I'm going to speak to a few admins regarding whether this complaint is valid or not.

[Bygonehero]

I withdraw my complaint, while 1138 is bias, it doesn't affect his/her judgement from what I can see, and indeed recently my interactions with them have been positive. If anything, I would not rip on someone in OOC unless they are being a cuck.(Which I sometimes can be one.)

[Garnascus]

The discussion appears to have been fruitful. I shall lock and archive this upon bygone's request.