[Resolved] Using Powers to Metagame - Alberyk

[hivefleetchicken]

BYOND Key:

Hivefleetchicken

Staff BYOND Key:

Alberyk

Game ID:

bPc-dl9G or bPc-dI9G

I can't tell due to the capital i/lower case l deal unfortunately.

Reason for complaint:

Long story short, I was an Unathi traitor. I go around, finding other spies, working out espionage. I killed a couple people, got armed, armed my comrades, and things got heated so I jumped into space because I was pretty much finished with the round. I said "I'm going home," found a little crossroads in the derelict, laid down, and ghosted. I went to view the rest of the round as an observer and chatted with some of the people I killed. About 30 minutes later, I see the ERT commander beelining for my corpse in the middle of space on the derelict, walking around the ship from his Southeast approach until he was near my hidden body at the West end. Then he cut some grilles precisely so he could be on a path for me, ran to my ghosted body, and beat it with his rifle to kill me. (Of course I had already suffocated to death since my oxygen tank most likely ran out), but it didn't stop him from trying.

I ahelped, asking for admins to stop using their powers to meta, and was greeted with a query from Catnip if I'd considered the ERT commander's ability to use their pinpointer to find criminals based on fingerprints, and he told me that's what he had been told of how I was found. I had worn black gloves the entire match, so his ability to use a pinpointer was most likely invalid. Still, I gave that possibility the benefit of the doubt and stopped pressing, before I realized they COULDN'T USE the pinpointer. I was on a different z-level, and thus I was lied to about the pinpointer by Catnip, who was lied to by Alberyk who said that was his entire way of finding me. Alberyk has blatantly used his powers in the past for this kind of stuff and now I have proof that he located my afk character through some means, launched into space until he was nearby, then ran up to me and captured me, and I have proof that he also lied about his means of knowing where I was.

Alberyk had joined as the leader of the ERT team. When he arrived to the station, he ran to arrivals with his team after being briefed on two suspects in arrivals with guns and the two forces got in a fight. They killed everyone on the team but him. He took them both out, which I would expect. As the last ERT member alive, he requested bodybags and declared that troops and suspects were down, etc, but immediately after he said he was going to "find the unathi" and launched himself into space to find me instead of meeting with the Captain or doing literally anything else. Didn't ask for a briefing at the station or to continue working to defend the ship due to the fact it was code red and 70% of the security force had been killed by antags and there were still many at large. Instead, he threw himself into space ALONE with no sense of direction (except for his admin powers) and magically found my body once he passed through the derelict and ran to me. I don't know what the hell any ERT commander would do that for unless he was literally thinking "time to float in space until i land on x antag's z-level so i can shoot his afk body and ensure maximum valids". No one launches themselves into space alone while the station is in code red as the last capable member of the protection detail, and magically locates the criminal's corpse with perfect knowledge of where they were.

Evidence/logs/etc: Yeah I took these screenshots of the derelict.

 

Above is the derelict.

 

Above is the path Alberyk took to find me. He came from the Southeast, circling around the station to reach me.

Additional remarks:

I, as well as several high-ranking staff members, have continuously caught Alberyk in the past using his admin observing powers to follow antagonists, and then enter his body. When caught, his excuse has always been "to make sure they're not afk", despite the fact that he then follows by running to their position and killing them. I have never collected proof until now that Alberyk is using his powers just to ensure that no one but him can have an ending that isn't "killed by admin". I hope other people, possibly other admins, can come forward in this thread and tell everyone about other instances of this behavior.

[Alberyk]

I went to view the rest of the round as an observer and chatted with some of the people I killed. About 30 minutes later, I see the ERT commander beelining for my corpse in the middle of space on the derelict, walking around the ship from his Southeast approach until he was near my hidden body at the West end. Then he cut some grilles precisely so he could be on a path for me, ran to my ghosted body, and beat it with his rifle to kill me. (Of course I had already suffocated to death since my oxygen tank most likely ran out), but it didn't stop him from trying.

 

I joined as ert, the command staff tells me about you while I listen to you talking about leaving. I get to arrivals, handle a situation with some traitors, and I move to the bridge, where I use the medical console to find your dna and I set it in the advanced pinpointer, which the ert leader has access to and can be used to track the disk, anyone dnas and several other objects. I find your body in medical and I burn it, since, I had no report of you being killed and most of security was done for, and then I go searching for you, I did not find you in the station, I move to the research outpost and I leave following the pin pointer, which would literaly point to where you are like the disk one works. I find you at the derelict, if I knew you were already, I would have used the teleporter instead of going into space to look for the person that the captain wanted me to deal with, I pick up the rifle and I end hitting you twice while trying to ctrl click you to drag, otherwise I would have just fire the gun on harm.

 

I ahelped, asking for admins to stop using their powers to meta, and was greeted with a query from Catnip if I'd considered the ERT commander's ability to use their pinpointer to find criminals based on fingerprints, and he told me that's what he had been told of how I was found. I had worn black gloves the entire match, so his ability to use a pinpointer was most likely invalid. Still, I gave that possibility the benefit of the doubt and stopped pressing, before I realized they COULDN'T USE the pinpointer. I was on a different z-level, and thus I was lied to about the pinpointer by Catnip, who was lied to by Alberyk who said that was his entire way of finding me. Alberyk has blatantly used his powers in the past for this kind of stuff and now I have proof that he located my afk character through some means, launched into space until he was nearby, then ran up to me and captured me, and I have proof that he also lied about his means of knowing where I was.

 

Gloves don't stop the pinpointer, since it works with dna and not your finger prints and I could just find your dna match in the medical records, I don't know where you are getting this from, but, this is not true and anyone that played as trooper and knows how the pinpointer works can agree with me. And I was following the track, which lead me to other levels, on the top of you saying you were leaving and what command told me over the radio. And there was no other situation at the time to handle, besides, I had a hand teleporter that I could have used to return to the station as well.

 

Alberyk had joined as the leader of the ERT team. When he arrived to the station, he ran to arrivals with his team after being briefed on two suspects in arrivals with guns and the two forces got in a fight. They killed everyone on the team but him. He took them both out, which I would expect. As the last ERT member alive, he requested bodybags and declared that troops and suspects were down, etc, but immediately after he said he was going to "find the unathi" and launched himself into space to find me instead of meeting with the Captain or doing literally anything else.

Except that we were called first to deal with you, which was the first thing that the captain told us, and then I ran to arrivals. I was aware of the situation and I was telling command over the radio, because, the first thing I did as a trooper while getting dressed up was to ask command what was going on.

 

I, as well as several high-ranking staff members, have continuously caught Alberyk in the past using his admin observing powers to follow antagonists, and then enter his body. When caught, his excuse has always been "to make sure they're not afk", despite the fact that he then follows by running to their position and killing them. I have never collected proof until now that Alberyk is using his powers just to ensure that no one but him can have an ending that isn't "killed by admin". I hope other people, possibly other admins, can come forward in this thread and tell everyone about other instances of this behavior.

 

Can you tell who are the high-ranking staff members? Feel free to ask the headming and other staff members, I was never spoken or punished for doing what you claim I was caught doing. I also don't know how you would have access to anything happening inside the admin circle. I also would like for you to show me any proof of this claim, because this is not true.

[hivefleetchicken]

What I want to know is how you used the pinpointer to follow me to a different z-level.

[Alberyk]

Here is the advanced pin pointer in action:

And as you can see, it can lead you to the exactly location of the person.

And now the pin pointer with someone wearing gloves:

 

And now the pin pointer with someone wearing a space suit convering their entire body:

 

I had your dna via the console, I was aware you were outside, I followed it around the z-level, found you and brought your body back to the station, telling the captain I found you. In any moment I used my admin powers to find your body.

[Alberyk]

What I want to know is how you used the pinpointer to follow me to a different z-level.

 

Because as I said, I was aware you left the station, and I used the poin pointer while floating in space using my jetpack, which I had in my suit, together with the hand teleporter that I could have used to return And since I could not find you on the station, I headed to the asteroid. I followed the pin pointer until it lead me to you, as I said, I did look into the station and moved to the outpost, as catnip can verify. And as I said, if I knew you were at the construction station, I could have used the teleport that leads to it instead of going outside to look for you.

[hivefleetchicken]

Do pinpointers work across z-levels now?

[Alberyk]

Pretty sure they just lead you to the way to other z-level, which I did from going by outside the outpost, that is how I reached the construction station z level. Because when you reach the border of the other z level you are just teleporter to other random z level, which was what happened while I followed the pin pointer until I hit the level you body was. And I never claimed I killed you, I just said I found you, asked for a body bag, no one replied and I dragged your body to medical and bagged it while returning to the ert ship due to the shuttle being on the way.

[Scheveningen]

Pinpointers function "across" z-levels in the sense that they will not properly pinpoint individuals on another z-level. Upon entering a new z-level, this might change if they are on that z-level as well. Advanced pinpointers are an extremely powerful tool for this reason, arguably better than anything else in an ERT's arsenal given the very propensity of having a device that allows you to track down anyone on the map.

Hence why I do not really see why this complaint was put up. It seems a bit absurd for a player to come back from a God-knows-how-long hiatus, play a few rounds on their first day back, and then write an incredibly long-winded and vitriolic complaint based on false assertions of game knowledge and a complete lack of understanding of what tools the ERT have at their disposal. Plus the "I have seen this admin do this stuff before" with zero backing or proof in relation to that. Especially considering this is your first day back. The same modus operandi applies for us, if we claim a player has a long history of relevant misbehavior but it isn't noted down, we must go by notes and escalate according to that, not according to what our gut feelings tell us.

Wearing gloves has absolutely jack shit to do with the pinpointer functioning or not, speaking as someone who also enjoys playing ERT, particularly as a combat medic, and has utilized the pinpointer for multiple situations. Whoever has the source of the DNA gets pinpointed. It is not any more complex than that. Neither of the administrators lied to you. The accusations you made were dumb. No one who is a "high-ranking staff member" can support you in this because this is the first I've ever heard of the assertion that Alberyk has apparently abused his power, and even if they did, I doubt they would be so foolish as to support you on your sinking ship of a complaint here. Hollering, "LIAR! LIAR!" at the top of your lungs does not give you the position to have a full understanding of the context of the situation.

The only thing that Catnip got wrong is that the pinpointer tracks DNA signatures and not fingerprints. An easy mistake to make, taking into consideration you actually thought you needed gloves on to counterplay a pinpointer that tracks DNA...

All an ERT member needs is a PDA with medical records functions or direct access to a medical records console to copy-paste the DNA string to hunt a man or woman or thing down.

 

I have never collected proof until now that Alberyk is using his powers just to ensure that no one but him can have an ending that isn't "killed by admin". I hope other people, possibly other admins, can come forward in this thread and tell everyone about other instances of this behavior.

 

This is dumb. It is a dumb thing to say when you claim to have gathered "proof" and all you have is two screenshots of where Alberyk, as an ERT trooper, tracked you down using their pinpointer.

[Garnascus]

I have never been approached by another member of staff telling me that they suspect alberyk of metagaming with his staff powers. I invite any of them to do so now if its actually true. Although it seems to me that there is a reasonable explanation here. What say you hive?

[hivefleetchicken]

Edited June 29, 2017 by Guest

[hivefleetchicken]

I have never been approached by another member of staff telling me that they suspect alberyk of metagaming with his staff powers. I invite any of them to do so now if its actually true. Although it seems to me that there is a reasonable explanation here. What say you hive?

 

i dunno man. i didnt know pinpointers track across z-levels. i asked in admin pms and they said directly to me that alberyk left himself into space until it picked up a signal. if it is true that he had rp reasoning all along to know exactly where i was, he does have a reasonable explanation as you say.

im not gonna force anyone ive talked to since i left come forward if they dont wanna.

[Scheveningen]

Are you still accusing him of lying, then? Because if we're going by this:

 

i dunno man. i didnt know pinpointers track across z-levels. i asked in admin pms and they said directly to me that alberyk left himself into space until it picked up a signal. if it is true that he had rp reasoning all along to know exactly where i was, he does have a reasonable explanation as you say.

 

..then Alberyk did nothing wrong here. You're relying on people to speak up for you when said people do not even exist.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I have seen Alberyk aghost over antagonists, when I myself was a ghost, before returning to his own body. I never took screencaps, and the instances were only about 2 times that I can recall, and I did not think it was suspicious in either instance. it could be because admins are trained to "JMP" when they see an attack log.

I do not know if pinpointers can track across Z-levels, but I can see why there is suspicion in this instance.

 

You're relying on people to speak up for you when said people do not even exist.

 

the complaint has been up for like, a few hours. we are not all eagerly poised to respond the instant this was posted.

[Alberyk]

I have seen Alberyk aghost over antagonists, when I myself was a ghost, before returning to his own body. I never took screencaps, and the instances were only about 2 times that I can recall, and I did not think it was suspicious in either instance. it could be because admins are trained to "JMP" when they see an attack log.

 

A lot of time we need to aghost to see what is going on, and besides, we get a lot of logs of attacks, a while ago antags logs did not show as any different from regular player ones, as you can see being fixed here: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/2422

Now, aghosting is far different from using said information that you get, because same happens with any kind of logs while you are playing and etc.

And like it was explained, I clearly had ways to find his body, I did not just decide to go for a walk and ran into the derelict, I was following the pinpointer that can track anyone as long I have their dna match which I got from a medical console/pda.

[Skull132]

[mention]Garnascus[/mention] This shit can be partially verified. Adminghosting generates logout reports in the game log, and adminjumping generates logs as well. So just. Pull up round logs and do some ctrl-F-ing.

If you need help, lemme know.

[hivefleetchicken]

So if you adminghost, and then use the ghost follow command, the only logs you can get are of logout reports.

Doesn't do me any favors. Unless of course, you compare the amount of times Alberyk's logout reports show up in comparison to the amount of types he actually uses his powers to jump to people.

[Skull132]

No, adminghost generates a logout report regardless of whether or not a jump link was used. A jump link itself generates another log. So you can distinguish between aghosts->jump and just aghost. The only downside is that there's no way of acquiring coordinates for where an aghost was terminated. Hopefully that's not necessary, however.

[Garnascus]

SKull is showing me how to git gud with graylog. I will check the logs and compare them when i am at work tomorrow.

[Garnascus]

Oki doki i examined the logs here and found absolutely no evidence that alberyk was metagaming. Of his 15 or so aghosts during this round not a single one of them was from when he was playing as kielo.

First off here is what an aghost looks like as far as the logs are concerned. They appear this way due to some inconsistency with graylog that skull is going to fix. In the future we will be able to see JMP coordinates.

 

 

The Ckey of a player and alberyk's IP address have been expunged from the screenshot. Alberyk has a string of these with his first one at 23:01:09 and his last one at 23:28:06. around a thirty minute period. He spent this time handling various ahelps while he was recovering in medical. He succumbs to his injuries and joins as S/Tpr Kielo. Now what would be suspicious is if i saw a whole bunch of logs looking like my above screenshot except with S/Tpr Kielo in place of Landyn Schofield. only a single admin log of alberyk exists while he was playing as S/Tpr Kielo.

 

 

He edited a players notes due to an issue around the end of the round. I believe every point the OP has made has been sufficiently debunked. I take accusations of staff abusing their powers very seriously. I will consider this matter resolved and lock and archive it after 24 hours should nothing further be brought up.

[Skull132]

Considering the visible aggression with which Hive entered this complaint, I'm half tempted to request they address this before we sign off.

[hivefleetchicken]

I mean, shrug, there's always a chance he just saw my corpse ghosted from the beginning and had no reason to check to make sure the catatonic guy had moved once he was actually ert.

that said i have no way of proving that and that's kind of just a dickish paranoid assumption to make, so no further comments to make on my part

[Alberyk]

Except, you ghosted when I was already ert, and as garn proved, I never ghosted while ert, I even replied to your ahelp about c4 while gearing up as trooper.

[Garnascus]

locking and archiving as this complaint has been resolved.