[1 Dismissal] Gravity System

[UnknownMurder]

I'll be blunt. This is bullshit. What you are about to read is full of exaggeration and elaboration.

Falling down the open space at zero gravity or a little more than zero. Why are there even gravity outside of the station? I propose a suggestion that throws out the system of a person falling instantly and crashing to the surface head on, thus suffering severe injuries. When I'd imagine people going out to space would be simple as jumping across the surface of the moon or bouncing/hopping across the asteroids. It would make sense for people to fall down instantly at zero gravity is when they have their magboots on and crush themselves, but without magboots, unbelievable. The gravity system should only apply station indoors, not outdoors because station indoors is where crew members can walk through and does not cover the entire outdoor of the station. At this moment, it is a huge hindrance to not only mercenaries or heisters but as well miners and science personnel trying to do their job which ends up getting killed.

[sonicgotnuked]

Sorry to be a little sarcastic, but... Mann... If only there was things someone could do to completly bypass the holes, travel up and down them, and not fall in.

I mean, that is a danger to mining is the holes, just don't fall down or ask for command to supply you a jetpack from EVA.

[Skull132]

It would actually be more bullshit if gravity only somehow affected the station. The gravity generator that the station is equipped with (it'll be visible next update) generates gravity for the entire asteroid. Not just for the metal station shell, which, again, wouldn't make fucking sense.

Also, we took care to make sure all antagonists are equipped with the tools required to navigate open space. Same for miners. And even xenobios. And EMTs. It is a natural hazard which everyone on the station has to deal with, antags and non-antags. It's also a relatively good way to break away from, "This is actually just a reskinned space station: everything is the same as it has been for the past 6 years." I don't see a valid point behind the moaning outside of, "I've not grown accustomed to this shit yet."

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Perhaps if you aren't familiar with a system, don't make yourself elligible for roles, (antag or otherwise,) that require you to be familiar with it. There's a test server you can use to fuck around with the zsystem, and also we're open-source, so you can download and run the server yourself, with admin powers to rejuvenate yourself, while you learn. Also, skull's open-space survival guide makes it painfully simple to understand the dangers of the zsystem and the ways to avoid that danger.

[UnknownMurder]

FML, I make a detailed post and requires for me to login then erases the whole post requiring me to make a lesser than detailed to what I had in mind. I've lost the copied. I might as well as start typing on notepad the next time I made a detailed message. This should be enough to get message across.

 

It would actually be more bullshit if gravity only somehow affected the station. The gravity generator that the station is equipped with (it'll be visible next update) generates gravity for the entire asteroid. Not just for the metal station shell, which, again, wouldn't make fucking sense.

It would actually even be more bullshit if gravity also affected the asteroid. Polis Massa (play Star Wars Battlefront II for once) or to say a station on an asteroid wouldn't stretch gravity across the asteroid. This is what everyone expected the asteroid would be like at first before the testing came in. However, we still have that teleport across Z and sudden crashing to the floor bug wherin [mention]ShameOnTurtles[/mention] and [mention]Sharp[/mention] was made aware of it.

While we're on the topic of gravity, allow me to ask questions regarding gravity. Where is the gravity pull of the asteroid? Is the gravity like Earth (9.807 m/s^2)? I would honestly have to reach to a compromise if the gravity was like the Moon (1.622 m/s^2) and the suggestion becomes a win-win suggestion.

 

Also, we took care to make sure all antagonists are equipped with the tools required to navigate open space. Same for miners. And even xenobios. And EMTs. It is a natural hazard which everyone on the station has to deal with, antags and non-antags. It's also a relatively good way to break away from, "This is actually just a reskinned space station: everything is the same as it has been for the past 6 years." I don't see a valid point behind the moaning outside of, "I've not grown accustomed to this shit yet."

I'm glad that you prepared antagonists to be prepared for worst case scenario. This is actually still space station but on an asteroid. There's a saying that goes by and I mean by no attacks to the map or respected developers themselves, "A polished turd is still a turd." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To play logic chess, I could tell you that you didn't provide a valid point to why do we have gravity applying across the asteroid in your previous post, which will eventually be reasoned and slowly deteriorate this issue into becoming realism vs. gameplay. Realism being only the gravity affects the station while gameplay being gravity affects the entire asteroid, station included. But of course, zero gravity cannot truly exists. As said, it would be best for the gravity was like the Moon.

P.S. I am familiar with how the gravity system should be like but you miss the point of this suggestion, [mention]Complete Garbage[/mention]. I play enough Science Fiction games and watched enough true science documentaries. The point of this suggestion is to remove/minimize gravity effect on the asteroid outside of the station. For people to suddenly falling down and breaking bones is just hefty and is enough to remove a person from the round if he dares to make a mistake. I know what I am talking about.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

P.S. I am familiar with how the gravity system should be like but you miss the point of this suggestion, [mention]Complete Garbage[/mention]. I play enough Science Fiction games and watched enough true science documentaries.

lmao what? Okay, I don't see how 'true science documentaries' have any bearing here, but whatever.

The point of this suggestion is to remove/minimize gravity effect on the asteroid outside of the station. For people to suddenly falling down and breaking bones is just hefty and is enough to remove a person from the round if he dares to make a mistake.

That's the whole point. The point of the z-system is to add actual danger and difficulty to mining. It accomplishes this goal quite well If you play it smart, and know what you're doing, you won't get removed from the round. Literally that simple. Why (and more importantly, how,) would a gravity generator project only within the confines of the station? That's dumb.

 

I know what I am talking about.

lmao whatever you say, buddy.

[UnknownMurder]

[mention]Complete Garbage[/mention] I'll just say this. It's space, there's hardly gravity in space. Just making stuff up like "Gravity Generators" to apply to asteroids to make asteroids have generators work. I see you're advocating for gameplay though that's not how it works. That's not how any of this works. Do not just say "Nanomachines, son. Bluespace, son. Hurrr Durrrr" There will be that person, or even a Research Director, like trying to make a clear sense out of what is a gravity to everyone. Then, people will enter a mental breakdown with gravity and how it functions.

Although, [mention]Lohikar[/mention] is the only person who has made a reasonable comeback.

[Skull132]

Excuse me a moment while I try to separate the amazing smugness of your post from the actual content.

 

However, we still have that teleport across Z and sudden crashing to the floor bug wherin ShameOnTurtles and Sharp was made aware of it.

 

Literally not relevant, get back on topic.

 

It would actually even be more bullshit if gravity also affected the asteroid. Polis Massa (play Star Wars Battlefront II for once) or to say a station on an asteroid wouldn't stretch gravity across the asteroid. This is what everyone expected the asteroid would be like at first before the testing came in.

 

While I assure you, I give absoloutely 0 shits about what games you play, notice the mahoosive size difference between the asteroid we represent ingame and Polis Massa. The station on PM is fucking tiny compared to the rock it's on, this makes local gravity a thing. In our case, the player accessible area is proportioned so that the station itself takes up at least 50% of the area on some Z-levels, if not more. A gravity generator in our lore works by creating a "field" of gravity. A bubble. All the things inside that bubble are effected, regardless of their presence over space. Which is why, unsurprisingly, you fall into a hole even if said hole is above space.

The only legitimate claim you could raise against this point is a question of, "Why don't I fall in reverse at some point?" To which I answer: eh. It's good enough as is.

 

While we're on the topic of gravity, allow me to ask questions regarding gravity. Where is the gravity pull of the asteroid? Is the gravity like Earth (9.807 m/s^2)? I would honestly have to reach to a compromise if the gravity was like the Moon (1.622 m/s^2) and the suggestion becomes a win-win suggestion.

 

Let's now make note of the fact that when we're discussing an artificial gravity generator, the actual mass of the rock without the generator is irrelevant. And we'll simply state that with the generator active, we're going to rocket to approximately Earth gravity. Also, partial gravity is like. Very difficult to comprehend in a 2d game: you'd fall through holes at a lowered pace, which is going to end up being even more confusing than the pretty simple logic we have going on right now: step in hole, fall in hole.

 

I'm glad that you prepared antagonists to be prepared for worst case scenario. This is actually still space station but on an asteroid. There's a saying that goes by and I mean by no attacks to the map or respected developers themselves, "A polished turd is still a turd." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Now we get to the smugness. Your implication from this is very clear: gravity on the asteroid is an error on the part of the development team that they're too lazy to patch. This is amazingly wrong for a myriad of reasons. I'll start with the simplest: there's a variable (or a proc, I forget which) which indicates whether or not an area is effected by gravity. If we, the development team, at any one point, ever, wanted to make gravity only effect the station, we could do so within 5 minutes. Possibly without even restarting the server.

However, there's more to it. The holes and falling damage and all of that were implemented as a result of a conscious effort to introduce another environmental threat for the crew and antagonists to tackle. I've said this loud and clear at least three to four times since Nümap release, and the fact that I have to say it again is unfortunate. We want it to be a new consideration, we want it to be a new obstacle for people to deal with and take into consideration, we want it to alter gameplay in a fashion that's more than just tacked on. And I'd say we've done it just fine with the entire MultiZ implementation, of which holes are a good part of.

So please do reconsider your perspective on why this mechanic exists before posting a reply.

Butt wait, there's more! Unfortunately.

 

To play logic chess, I could tell you that you didn't provide a valid point to why do we have gravity applying across the asteroid in your previous post, which will eventually be reasoned and slowly deteriorate this issue into becoming realism vs. gameplay. Realism being only the gravity affects the station while gameplay being gravity affects the entire asteroid, station included. But of course, zero gravity cannot truly exists. As said, it would be best for the gravity was like the Moon.

 

Logic chess is a pretty pointless exercise when it comes to pitching ideas and issues. Realism takes a back seat for the sake of being believable and gameplay design. Always has. The gravity generator works by creating a field of artificial gravity around the station and closely surrounding area. It's believable enough: has been before, during the era of Exodus, will be past it. And I've already covered the gameplay design part twice, the part you've managed to ignore even in your final response to Garbage.

 

I play enough Science Fiction games and watched enough true science documentaries. The point of this suggestion is to remove/minimize gravity effect on the asteroid outside of the station. For people to suddenly falling down and breaking bones is just hefty and is enough to remove a person from the round if he dares to make a mistake. I know what I am talking about.

 

okay.jpg. I can point out about a few hundred indescrepencies about game mechanics when it comes to fields that I've legitimately studied as part of my degree. Namely: material science, electronics, mechanics. But I literally don't care, because it makes for good gameplay. Arguing "Muh realism!" in a game of 2d farty spessmans, while shoving a pole up your ass about it, is an idiotic waste of time and effort. Arguing that one sci-fi method of handling artificial gravity is better than the next is even more assenine, because it boils down to, "I DON'T LIKE THIS! CHANGE IT!"

There is literally nothing constructive about this topic until you start approaching this from a gameplay direction. But, apparently you consider it a bug so w/e.

+1 vote for dismissal.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

@Complete Garbage I'll just say this. It's space, there's hardly gravity in space.

This is, uhh... Kind-of true, but whatever, okay.

Just making stuff up like "Gravity Generators" to apply to asteroids to make asteroids have generators work.

What? Holy shit, please learn to write a coherently structured sentence.

What I think you're trying to say is, "don't make shit up."

To which I have to say, I'm not. Gravity generators were an established part of pre-bay Aurora. They provided gravity to their entire z-level, as long as there was solid turf (i.e. plating). One could reasonably presume they projected some bluespace-magic graviton field to do this.

I see you're advocating for gameplay though that's not how it works.

Literally what?

Are you saying that gameplay is a secondary consideration?

I honestly, genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Do not just say "Nanomachines, son. Bluespace, son. Hurrr Durrrr"

If anyone's "hrr drr'ing" here, it's you.

"Hrr durr, Polis Massa, hrr drr, true science documentaries"

Just a quick aside, so we are all clear on something. Space Station 13 is Space Station 13. Aurora is Aurora. Aurora is not a star wars game, nor is it real life, for that matter. And back to the topic of gameplay, if I understand you correctly there, in terms of development, this sentiment has always held true:

Consistency > Fun Gameplay > Realism

 

There will be that person, or even a Research Director, like trying to make a clear sense out of what is a gravity to everyone. Then, people will enter a mental breakdown with gravity and how it functions.

Okay, people have always been doing this. "How does singulo work????!?!??" "How does phoron/plasma work?!?!???!???" "What the fuck is a supermatter crystal?!?!?!??!"

And yet, Aurora has never had a mass-exodus over any of these questions.

Again, I'll state:

The z-level system is perfectly fine. It accomplishes its intended purpose. You are making a proverbial mountain out of what is barely a molehill in the first place.

P.S. Real-life physics, as a matter of realism, don't apply particularly well to games like SS13.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Documentaries do not give you any qualifications or certifications. You have a plastic sheriffs badge and you are waving it around claiming authority.

This is a 2D top down based game. The gravity is necessary for game design.

It does not need to be based on reality. This universe is not our universe. Realism doesn't matter. Internal consistency matters. Artificial gravity can function however we want it to as long as we try to make it consistent with the rest of the setting. It could be powered by wizards casting gravity spells, or it spawns invisible, really really fat goblins to cling to people to keep then anchored to simulate gravity.

If the game revolved around gravity then fine, we'd need to be really complex about it. But gravity generation is not a point of our server. It is a tool to further the stories we are all making. We are more concerned with "how" advances the "why", not getting stuck on the "how".

If you can't handle the gravity generator as a Research Director then don't play a research director.

I watched an apollo 11 mission documentary 6 years ago, so I'm speaking as an authority representing NASA.

[Ron]

Voting for dismissal due to the addition of the gravity generator and the fact it is established it will apply outside and inside the station.

[Arrow768]

Moving two the bin as two devs voted for dismissal.