Why can't IPC's be heads?

[Guest]

Nanotrasen finds a race of naturally subservient primitive cat-people.

Nanotrasen more or less takes them by the collective scruff of their neck and starts shaking them around for cheap uneducated labour.

They don't like that, not one bit.Infact, they begin an organized rebellion and begin harboring some anti-NT sentiments.

Nanotrasen thinks on the matter, and decides that their barely controlled, and somewhat hostile cheap labour force is more than ready to be assigned to their secret private Research facility as high ranking Nanotrasen officials.

Nanotrasen encounters a tribal society of backwards living warrior lizardmen, and decides to use them for hired thugs and meatshields because they are large and scary.

Nanotrasen decides that these Aliens are fully qualified to become station heads.

Nanotrasen encounters/creates a race of intelligent machines who have spend their equivalent of a childhood in sworn service to Nanotrasen, who have not only worked enough for Nanotrasen to buy their own freedom, but are apparently loyal enough to Nanotrasen to continue working with them even after becoming free.

Nanotrasen thinks putting them in a head position would be silly.

And Nanotrasen thinks, that it is not a silly corporation.

The Nanotrasen official however, is a Skrell.

He is tackled and gored by the Unathi head of security of the station he is in, because Skrell produce a liquid whose smell makes Unathi go in an unstoppable, murderous berserk rage.

[Tablespoon]

In Short:

Because they're robots

In Long:

Because IPC's are created by humanity, as opposed to being born or found, they aren't trusted to be leaders. Imagine this: You create a robot. It serves you, does some menial tasks for you and you enjoy it's company or how it makes your life easier. Then one day you come into work and that robot is your boss, telling you what to do, making you do chores for it. That is more or less how the average human and possibly alien race(s) feel about IPCs. They are tools created by humanity. They may have free will (or something mimicking it) but at the end of the day, they are manufactured machines. There's also the potential moral dilemma of machines not perfectly understanding what pain, love and other emotions/feelings are.

[Susan]

Nanotrasen finds a race of naturally subservient primitive cat-people.

Not naturally subservient. Not primitive by the base meaning of the term. Not found by NanoTrasen.

 

Nanotrasen more or less takes them by the collective scruff of their neck and starts shaking them around for cheap uneducated labour.

After the fact. NanoTrasen along with most humans in general were barred from Adhomai by the ruling government.

 

They don't like that, not one bit.Infact, they begin an organized rebellion and begin harboring some anti-NT sentiments.

Nothing to do with the company at all. Revolution against their oppressive controlling /government/. NanoTrasen /aided/ in funding this rebellion due to their interests on Adhomai. Anti-humanists and anti-transtellars are considered extremists.

 

Nanotrasen thinks on the matter, and decides that their barely controlled, and somewhat hostile cheap labour force is more than ready to be assigned to their secret private Research facility as high ranking Nanotrasen officials.

NanoTrasen thinks on the matter, and decides that some handful of qualified, resourceful, independent, and passionate Tajaran employees are ready for /trial/ runs as /less important/ (not HoP, Captain, RD) heads on their stupid dumbass research facility.

Don't twist my lore to support your baseless claims.

[Chaznoodles]

I laughed. Good post.

As far as I'm aware, with current-day robotics and suchlike, people don't want machines in charge of them, because they don't know what it's like to be alive.

[ZipZero]

Oh, good. At least somebody wants to discuss this calmly, and without resorting to chanting "because I said so". Let me respond to a few things here.

Nanotrasen finds a race of naturally subservient primitive cat-people.

Nanotrasen more or less takes them by the collective scruff of their neck and starts shaking them around for cheap uneducated labour.

They don't like that, not one bit.Infact, they begin an organized rebellion and begin harboring some anti-NT sentiments.

Nanotrasen thinks on the matter, and decides that their barely controlled, and somewhat hostile cheap labour force is more than ready to be assigned to their secret private Research facility as high ranking Nanotrasen officials.

Nanotrasen encounters a tribal society of backwards living warrior lizardmen, and decides to use them for hired thugs and meatshields because they are large and scary.

Nanotrasen decides that these Aliens are fully qualified to become station heads.

Tajara are not "naturally subservient", nor are they primative. They were in, if I remember correctly, an industrial era. Unathi, also, were not tribal. And, it was NT/SA influence that caused the revolutions on Adhomai. It seems like you really need to reread the lore on this.

 

Because IPC's are created by humanity, as opposed to being born or found, they aren't trusted to be leaders. Imagine this: You create a robot. It serves you, does some menial tasks for you and you enjoy it's company or how it makes your life easier. Then one day you come into work and that robot is your boss, telling you what to do, making you do chores for it. That is more or less how the average human and possibly alien race(s) feel about IPCs.

That's certainly a reasonable cause for the restriction, though this raises the question - why would people feel this way? Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with a synthetic intelligence having a position of authourity over me, and I heavily dislike such forced discrimination in fictional universes. There's already enough of that in real life, do you really think anybody wants anyone wants to sit down after a day of dealing with discrimination, only to have to deal with it in whatever game they play? While it certainly makes sense to have some restriction, there should be exceptions. After all, can you really think of a good reason why NT would hire someone as a head of staff who has worked for them for only a fraction of their life, or someone who has worked for them all of their existence?

They are tools created by humanity. They may have free will (or something mimicking it) but at the end of the day, they are manufactured machines. There's also the potential moral dilemma of machines not perfectly understanding what pain, love and other emotions/feelings are.

They are not tools - the fact that they have free will shows this. They are no more machines than any human is - it could be argued that they are synthetic machines in the same way as there are organic machines, such as a human body. And, quoting from my IPC app here, " I think it would be wrong to say they do not have emotions at all, though - for instance, a sense of self-preservation could be comparable to fear".

Really, though, I think all of this is an IC issue. We should have events regarding synthetic rights, perhaps involving the Synthetic Intelligence Movement. And perhaps the outcome of such events could permanently change how NT handles synthetics in the future.

[Guest]

assigned to their secret private Research facility

Psst. It's not a secret research facility. The location isn't hidden or anything. It's a secure private facility, yes. Not a secret.

[Guest]

There are two different kind of major lifestyles on Moghes. There is the city, which is ran by a small council of advisories, known as a lesser council, who own different sub-clans within a city. Sub-clans present are typically security, welfare, currency and supply. Though this can vary between cities to suit its need. Cities are generally a group of clans who have formed together to create a city. Doing so provides more protection to each other. The other lifestyle is the traditional system. The traditional system is seen as a much harsher lifestyle due to how strict it can be, though those who choose this way are considered more honorable and can reap greater rewards. A clan can range from 50 - 150 in population which is controlled by a single Alpha male. Larger clans generally have broodmothers to look after the large population. If the population is below 50 the group would be considered a tribe.

 

The difference between "Tribe" and "Clan" is somewhat thin.

I distinctly remember an event where the station's Tajaran were herded into the permabrig, I remember something about an anti-Nanotrasen revolution on Adhomai, a space station being hit by an artillery shell, and a Handsome Jack-esque NT Announcer being very, very mad about these events.

But anyhow, I would have accepted these responses as valid if it wasn't for the small problem of the large tribal lizard warriors that have the chance of going into a murderous fit of rage if they happen to frighten one of humanity's oldest allies, the Skrell.

I mean, I suppose putting this lizard warrior as the brave leader of your security force is a somewhat Unorthodox but possibly effective maneuver, but head of personnel?

Have the man-crocodile that may decide to punch you in the face if you call him by his first name handle your finances?

That doesn't make sense, at all.

So why is it that these things are there?

In my opinion, the answer is simple!

They're there because they're fun to have!

Heads are fun.These people who are playing characters from that race are having fun, being heads.So why take that fun away?

I mean, Nanotrasen obviously wouldn't hire some uncontrolled Alien Lizard Warrior as a head, they'd pick a clever, civilized Lizard for the job.Just like they'd do for a cat person.

So the question is, if there are exceptions among the angry Communist catfolk, and the angry Lizard warriors and that warrants them not being banned from some head positions at all times, why is it that your friendly neighborhood tin man can't get the same treatment?Or your sentient space plant/worm colony?

If we were being realistic, pretty much every alien race besides the Skrell would be firmly stuck in Nanotrasen's disposable labour bracket.

Seems like the Treemen and the Tin cans are getting the short end of the stick just because.

[Skull132]

Really, though, I think all of this is an IC issue. We should have events regarding synthetic rights, perhaps involving the Synthetic Intelligence Movement. And perhaps the outcome of such events could permanently change how NT handles synthetics in the future.

 

I don't think there exist any chain of events that will permit a race of synthetic, artificial beings to gain acceptance to such a high degree.

Also, if you want to discuss psychology, then let's go party:

The one aspect that a human has, and that is desirable over an artificial intelligence, is wisdom. A program cannot gain wisdom, and yet, wisdom is a very important aspect of a leader. A program can learn, but it cannot become learned. A program can make decisions based on previous examples, but it cannot go against them and make judgement on gut feeling. All of these are desirable aspects for a leader to have, because they make the leader flexible, and set him apart from a follower.

Also, an artificial intelligence lacks the capacity for free, radical thought that a human has. Thus, the avenues for problem solving, specially in delicate social situations, would be different. And as such, again, a human/organic would trump an AI.

These are the reasons why AIs serve as high-level advisers, who have a lot of power, but not as actual commanders. Because they lack the qualities above. they can advise, and conduct under orders to a very high degree. But never lead.

And if you want to argue that an IPC has thought exactly like a human, then let me ask you this: why the fuck did you apply for an IPC, if this is your mode of thought? So you could play a skinny, metallic human with a screen instead of a face, while completely ignoring the psychological differences between the two? Races need to be different. This deems that not all races are equal in every respect. Availability for command is a very meaningful way to curb and set a race apart from the rest.

I will not have 6 races of pseudo-humans who are equal in all but speech pattern and appearance. But it appears that I'm being shoved in that direction. Quaint.

[Frances]

That's certainly a reasonable cause for the restriction, though this raises the question - why would people feel this way? Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with a synthetic intelligence having a position of authourity over me, and I heavily dislike such forced discrimination in fictional universes. There's already enough of that in real life, do you really think anybody wants anyone wants to sit down after a day of dealing with discrimination, only to have to deal with it in whatever game they play? While it certainly makes sense to have some restriction, there should be exceptions. After all, can you really think of a good reason why NT would hire someone as a head of staff who has worked for them for only a fraction of their life, or someone who has worked for them all of their existence?

Oh, fantasy racism. How I love and hate it at the same time. Fantasy racism can actually be a good way to discuss actual race issues maturely, without having to directly bring discussions that are often heated and sensitive.

Now, I'm not an expert on these issues, so I won't go into details other than by saying that fantasy racism can serve as a ground for dialogue, debate, and topic exploration (as well as serving as a tool to construct a greater narrative). What I hate in it is its seeming propensity for stagnancy - it often gets thrown in as part of a gameworld, and then goes completely ignored. For example, so many high fantasy settings have humans be racist against elves, or dwarves, or halflings or whatever - and then nothing gets done with it. It's just a tidbit of fluff that exists - maybe you're gonna see an elf being called names at some point, but it's rarely going to have any impact on the story.

Which isn't terrible either. If your main complaint is that people aren't interested in seeing issues of race in fiction, then having them go underdeveloped and barely present doesn't leave much of an issue to be had. But I believe if there is potential for them to be explored maturely and intelligently, then they should be left in.

We're not a hugbox. Our SS13 lore, without being overly edgy or grimdark, does present an average, everyday narrative which covers both good and bad. Yes, some people come here as a form of escapism. Does that mean we need to completely suppress racism because it might make some people feel uneasy? No. This is the one platform where these things can be discussed through an intermediate, and if we start to censor ourselves to shelter our users from the harsh realities of the real world, I believe we'll just be less-prepared to actually face them.

Getting rid of all displays of racism does create a "friendlier" atmosphere for our game. But it doesn't get rid of actual race issues. In fact, the only thing it accomplishes is preventing people from familiarizing themselves with them in a safer and more forgiving context. And there's already a ton of games which feature no race issues whatsoever, because they're afraid of touching the race stick (or it's just not relevant to them). I'd rather have us keep being what we are - an environment open for all forms of mature discourse - than start policing ourselves and become yet another of these sugar bubbly games.

 

Really, though, I think all of this is an IC issue. We should have events regarding synthetic rights, perhaps involving the Synthetic Intelligence Movement. And perhaps the outcome of such events could permanently change how NT handles synthetics in the future.

I am totally for that. Not sure if anybody is in charge of IPC lore atm - though I suppose it'd be as easy as players banding together to create IPC rights movements, or something similar.

[Guest]

Back on-topic, I'm pretty sure the Baystation standard that IPCs were held to was that their programming focused them towards being subservient beings with some level of sentience at the same time.

It's not a lack of trust, it's merely how IPCs are molded. It's not that they can't lead, it's just they have a preference to serve.

[ZipZero]

And if you want to argue that an IPC has thought exactly like a human

I'm just going to stop you right there.

Skull, I never said anything like this. Please stop being so hostile towards me.

[Skull132]

And if you want to argue that an IPC has thought exactly like a human

I'm just going to stop you right there.

Skull, I never said anything like this. Please stop being so hostile towards me.

 

Notice the "IF" statement. I didn't have time to wait for a response, so I wrote a preemptive one and bound it into a clause. If you think that way, the keep reading past the clause itself, if you don't think that way, then feel free to disregard the sentence. I'm not seeing an issue here: I don't insinuate, I just try to nip a few issues and thought processes that I see potentially emerging preemptively.

So, please run the following code:

-If(ZipZero.argument == "IPCs think like humans")

---read_argument()

-else

---return

 

---

---

 

Also, about me being hostile. Yes, because I'm starting to get tired. Take a step back for a second, and look at the topics you've stirred up over the past few days. Every single time you've raised the IPC race and their limitations, you've tried to force your way, found the staff in opposition, and gotten yourself into amusing little battles, where you try to give us as little ground as possible. And frankly, I'm getting slightly sick of it.

I'm not here to wage these massive arguments about lore. I'm not here to answer every single fathomable question, "Why". I'm a fucking human, doing this out of my spare time, and most likely losing my nerves over this in the long run. Just once, I would appreciate a message along the lines of, "IPCs can't be heads, because of reasons," from the staff to receive a nod and a, "Aayup, sure." Instead, this gets turned into a battle where everything lore, reason, and outside of it is chucked at us. Great, right? Totally something that makes us want to come back here. Mhm.

No, we aren't here to have these tug of war matches, and I would very gladly just lock this thread with the notice that Tablespoon just posted, since you're so inclined to throw lore arguments at our faces. Of course, I like to fight fire with fire. So this is the end result, over which I am not fussed.

But hey, that's just me whining. Back on topic.

 

---

---

 

As noted, it's a sentence in a clause, a "Just in case, so you don't start even thinking this way," type of deal.

[Guest]

Alright, you've made your stance known.You wont budge, you are impervious to my whining.Drop the curtains, lock the thead.I wont raise the issue again.You run the show, the only thing I have in my arsenal is the ability to persistently ask you to change things, since that's not working I guess there is nothing I can do other than deal with it.

However, as a final display of passive agression I suggest that you edit the species whitelist template thread with the disclaimer that species playability entirely depends on the number of results you get by searching the animal the species resembles on Furaffinity.

[Tablespoon]

Alright, you've made your stance known.You wont budge, you are impervious to my whining.Drop the curtains, lock the thead.I wont raise the issue again.You run the show, the only thing I have in my arsenal is the ability to persistently ask you to change things, since that's not working I guess there is nothing I can do other than deal with it.

However, as a final display of passive agression I suggest that you edit the species whitelist template thread with the disclaimer that species playability entirely depends on the number of results you get by searching the animal the species resembles on Furaffinity.

 

Wait....what?

Look, every race is tweaked to play a little different, and not all races are equal. In our lore, humanity is top dog with skrell being maybe a close second. IPC's aren't even considered a proper 'race'. They're sentient machines that are not slaved to AI laws, that's really it.

As I said before, the base reason they are not allowed to be heads is because they are viewed as machines, as not capable of leading flesh and blood people, plus the moral dilemmas of a cold hearted machine being in charge of people's lives. I'm willing to concede that they can 'mimic' emotions, but I think that the mentality among most of human society is that IPC's have a right to live their own lives, but must not be allowed to 'rule over their masters'.

If you want to play a head of staff, you're free to make a staff whitelist and play with a human or skrell or other race.

[Cassie]

First of all, as a black person, I laugh at the "safe haven" excuse, I deal with racism in some form nearly everyday being on internet communities and in real life - and I don't actually mind a well-RP'ed racism scenario, as long as it's not just "HURR I STAB YOU BECAUSE YOU DIFFERENT" and people actually facilitate realistic situations.

It's been over 300 years and today's civil rights are still abysmal - I doubt a space station visiting a few species before slapping them onto a huge corporation ship all together is not going to have a similar effect.

I prefer human characters personally though, second choice is Skrell, third choice is IPC, then maybe Unathi - which is why I would like to contribute to this thread because it's not just this server but most RP servers are neglecting the lore of these species.

Nearly all RP servers forget this, but I just need to remind everyone:

Races: White, Black, Asian, etc

Species: Human, Tajaran, Skrell, Unathi, etc

So technically the discrimination would technically be speciesism as species denote belonging to the same breeding class (as in, you can create offspring from each other).

Personally, I don't know why everyone is downgrading silicons in the SS13 universe and treating them so badly everywhere I go. Generally I love the idea that IPCs/cyborgs are sentient but are discriminated or thought to be. On another RP server I did created an event where my character - Jackson Ripfield (traitor antag - I go deeep with my traitor RP) created the ALM manifesto you can read here: part 1, part 2, and part 3.

People are RP'ing/portraying cyborgs and IPCs as "[insert robotic stereotypical personality here]" and have no quirks whatsoever. Haruspex, for example, has my respect for breaking out of that mould, personally. I did once make a catalogue on how cyborg psychology can be different to human psychology, and therefore develop eccentric or different personalities that are believeable for RP. It's completely possible for silicons that were built via human brains, I would imagine psychological issues similar to Glados having brief relapses in personality to Caroline's in Portal 2.

Though, I don't see any heavy RP servers being kind to silicon RP any time soon. Skrell produce eggs and don't actually have sex, and IPCs... there's just no (safe) holes in them technically. That's probably why they aren't as popular.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As a super mixed race hispanic/black/white person, I will agree that I do enjoy well RP'd racism scenarios as well (Thought I hate that the word 'racism' is being used in this situation, when 'speciesism' is much, much more fitting.). And while I might disagree that statement about civil rights, I do agree that the first contact dates of these alien species is pretty early to eliminate all the preconceptions and prejudices from the human population and collective psyche (Maybe it's long enough to eliminate the immediate outward insults and protests, but not the deeper running roots of it.). It took quite a while for people just to accept people who looked slightly different into their fold, so I doubt everyone's going to feel right at home with talking space cats and alligator men and Jack Skellington-looking computer beings. Skrell are a different case, because while they are the allies of humanity, you don't tend to see that many on the station.

[Guest]

I believe the point I was trying to make has been entirely misunderstood.

I am not complaining that there is IC racism pointed at aliens.

Rather, I am complaining that this IC racism conviniently ends where lore team's head characters begin.

When it comes to the easily exploitable Tajaran and Unathi workforces, Nanotrasen's heart seems to grow tenfold, they take these otherwise perfectly abusable aliens and just let them rub their snouts/muzzles into all of their top secret corporate stuff in Head of Personnel or Head of Security positions, such progressive behaviour, good job Nanotrasen!

However, when it comes to the other two unlucky alien species ,Nanotrasen suddenly remembers itself for the immoral soulless tyrranical corporate war machine it truly is, and puts them back into their place.Hell, Nanotrasen is even worried about the "Moral Implications" of having a soulless machine boss its fleshy employees around!See, machines don't feel pain. What if their fleshy employees get an owie and the machine doesn't care?Nanotrasen just can't allow such atrocities to happen!(Leaving colonies to starve to death after depleting their plasma supply is a-ok tho, according to the newscaster)

Furthermore, on the subject of racism.

IC speciesm either doesn't exist, or will result in an almost immediate lynching.Nearly all the Unathi are scary, passive agressive and in security positions, look at them wrong and they will baton the shit out of you.Tajaran have a fucking "Meowfia" and increased unarmed damage, mess with them and they're going to turn you into their litter box.Most human characters are goody-goody two shoes who would never do something like that anyway.Example : Vittorio is about to win the most despised character award, and ICly Vittorio hasn't even been that speciest, most of his Anti-Tajaran sentiment was expressed completely OOC (Probably because he'd get lynched if he did it IC).

Im going to assume, from the almost complete lack of speciest characters, that the community either doesn't like speciesm at all, or is too scared to ICly express speciesm.That might have something to do with all the incredibly agressive and generally scary Unathi and Tajaran who take head and sec positions who will probably do horrible, horrible things to you if you do express speciesm and nobody is going to help you either because they dont like supremacists, or aren't going to engage in goddamn mutiny to save your ass.

Essentially, my argument is:

Unathi and Tajaran should not be heads, nothing but the Skrell should have a head whitelist because Nanotrasen is an evil, heartless corporate conglomerate whose only interest in these species should be exploitation, however against all logic and the supposed "Gritty realism" of the setting these Unathi and Tajaran have been made heads, however IPC's and Plant men have not been given the same treatment and when I asked if that can change, after a brief search the flag of "Gritty space realism" was retrieved from whatever corner it was previously kicked in and then planted right in front of my face, still covered in dust and cobwebs - because this isn't Star trek, guys.

It's GRITTY GRIMDARK SPESS REALISM!

That's fine with me, really.So why dont we enforce this standard of GRIMDARK SPESS REALISM FULL OF GRIT by putting the Unathi and the Tajaran in their place, down in the maintenance shafts with the rest of the filthy xeno rabble?

Il quote Sue's post on this.

NanoTrasen thinks on the matter, and decides that some handful of qualified, resourceful, independent, and passionate Tajaran

The word you're looking for is "Special snowflake".The act of making a special snowflake is not bad in itself, however making your special snowflake and then holding a Monopoly on special snowflakes by announcing that everyone else is going to have to deal with a brand of discrimination which your special snowflakes are exclusively exempt from is just a dick move.

When this "Speciesm", this putative "Holy grail of RP" is completely ignored both by the community and the administration, why pretend it even exists?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Nanotrasen isn't really evil, just morally gray. And we've been trying to dispel the whole "GRITTY REALISM YAH" feeling in general. Mostly because mechanics just won't allow for it to be taken seriously. And there is plenty of IC racism. The thing is, I doubt that anyone's going to want to say it into the face of a massive lizard alien with talons, the same way you wouldn't use the n-word in a derogatory fashion in a primarily lower-income African American neighborhood (clunky metaphor, but it works somewhat).

[Guest]

Nanotrasen isn't really evil, just morally gray. And we've been trying to dispel the whole "GRITTY REALISM YAH" feeling in general. Mostly because mechanics just won't allow for it to be taken seriously. And there is plenty of IC racism. The thing is, I doubt that anyone's going to want to say it into the face of a massive lizard alien with talons, the same way you wouldn't use the n-word in a derogatory fashion in a primarily lower-income African American neighborhood (clunky metaphor, but it works somewhat).

 

Functions quite well, actually. People should be mutually aware ICly that calling people names for no reason is bad.

[Guest]

Nanotrasen isn't really evil, just morally gray. And we've been trying to dispel the whole "GRITTY REALISM YAH" feeling in general. Mostly because mechanics just won't allow for it to be taken seriously. And there is plenty of IC racism. The thing is, I doubt that anyone's going to want to say it into the face of a massive lizard alien with talons, the same way you wouldn't use the n-word in a derogatory fashion in a primarily lower-income African American neighborhood (clunky metaphor, but it works somewhat).

 

Well assuming that we're moving away from Shadowrun grimdark and into Space opera, and Nanotrasen is not "Baby puncher incorporated", why not give IPC's and tree men the treatment Unathi and Tajaran get?

[canon35]

Just gonna drop my opinion.

Can't an IPC be programmed to be a good head of staff? It wouldn't have emotions and would look out for NT's interests rather than anyone else's, and would be extremely loyal.

[Serveris]

assigned to their secret private Research facility

Psst. It's not a secret research facility. The location isn't hidden or anything. It's a secure private facility, yes. Not a secret.

I always imagined it as being like The White House. Or the Kremlin. Anyone with a map and a brain can find it.

But if you get too close, expect complications.

If you set foot on it, see: trespass on corporate property http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=2160then expect to be tased.

[Tablespoon]

Just gonna drop my opinion.

Can't an IPC be programmed to be a good head of staff? It wouldn't have emotions and would look out for NT's interests rather than anyone else's, and would be extremely loyal.

 

Again, the prevailing opinion, lorewise, is that IPC's are, at their base, computers. They were created. People are inherently uncomfortable with a tool they create ('they' in the broadest sense of the word) suddenly being made in charge of them. While IPCs are capable of self-determination and possess free-will, they aren't able to shake the stigma of being computers, of being created to help people. Characters in game are welcome to have differing opinions, but the 'popular view' is that IPCs are highly advanced computers, but still machines.

Imagine if management at a company said : Hey, we took your computer, made it self-aware and programmed it to be a leader and now it's your boss. People would get angry, really fucking angry. Plus the potential backlash as people worry about robots taking over their management jobs.

All in all, IPCs are a grey area: THey are allowed to buy their own freedom (from any lawset) and are granted more or less equal rights as a person, but they have a stigma of being tools, of being computers. It's not perfect, and it shouldn't be. Our universe is fucked up place, perfect for conflict.

[Guest]

Again, the prevailing opinion, lorewise, is that IPC's are, at their base, computers. They were created. People are inherently uncomfortable with a tool they create ('they' in the broadest sense of the word) suddenly being made in charge of them.

 

As opposed with suddenly having what they percieve as a giant nearly feral lizard man being in charge of them.

Your argument makes sense, Tablespoon.I understand what you mean, it's reasonable.

What isn't reasonable is how this revulsion only extends to tree people and IPC"s.

People shouldn't be okay with what they see as warmongering tribal lizardmen bossing them around, or what they may view as uneducated alien rabble coming from a world in the midst of civil turmoil and taking all their jerbs.

But for some reason, they are?

Everyone's waving rainbow flags and cheering for love tolerance and equality, but suddenly remember they're supposed to be xenophobic once the races in which people with coloured names have yet to make any head characters appear?

Shit's illogical and inconsistent, man.

Giving the two most special snowflake species the exclusive ability to be heads among their filthy xeno peers is problematic, it encourages Mary Sue-ism and Meta Cliques, this is why I am arguing with you in this thread.I don't want this place to devolve the next toxic hugbox featured daily on r/SS13.Most alien heads we have are at least passive agressive, how long do you think will it take untill they simply become edgy?

My solution is clean and simple. If you make everyone special, then nobody will be.

[ZipZero]

(Spoiler tags for large image)

In all seriousness, though. Do you think this is something that could be changed for future rounds, similar to how unathi captains are possible 20 years in the future? Even if certain positions were restricted, such as the captain.