Major Communications Overhaul

[NoahKirchner]

dead hour rounds will be severely penalized with this, it already feels like a graveyard, a lack of common would just give more to the feeling and personally I would probably completely stop playing dead hour rounds if this goes through.

 

I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much but I would think that this would encourage people to seek out other characters and interact in person or setup events and activities to keep themselves interested. As they wouldn't be able to just sit around and talk shit over the general freq, interaction would need to be a bit more proactive. Even still, if the common channel was kept for intercoms, it would be possible to have a conversation through them but it would just limit your ability to move around. Once again, incentivizing a face to face conversation instead.

There's an issue with that. Leaving your department requires you to ignore your job. If I'm a paramedic I have to basically always be in or around medbay to be able to respond to situations, an engineer will always be being called off and a xenobiologist or xenoarcheologist is going to have little to no contact every round. People will just alt-tab more, or they will ignore their job and the game will become a "Let's sit in the bar instead of doing our job" sim imo.

[Kaed]

There's an issue with that. Leaving your department requires you to ignore your job. If I'm a paramedic I have to basically always be in or around medbay to be able to respond to situations, an engineer will always be being called off and a xenobiologist or xenoarcheologist is going to have little to no contact every round. People will just alt-tab more, or they will ignore their job and the game will become a "Let's sit in the bar instead of doing our job" sim imo.

 

?????

-Xeno(x)ology jobs tend to be some of the most mechanically engaging jobs on the station. Often they go off into their own world and don't talk to much of anyone the whole round because their job amounts to a round-long minigame. Or they die to a slime or hole.

-Talk to your coworkers

-The crew in general is going to be far less interested in your bluespace slimes and artifacts than your department

-You can talk to anyone you want without going to the bar, just use your PDA.

-Talk to your coworkers.

And paramedics are the ones who are SUPPOSED to leave their department to fetch wounded, I thought? Along with engineers who need to fix things?

I don't understand your complaint here. All you're losing is the ability to gab at everyone on the station at once from any place on the station.

[NoahKirchner]

There's an issue with that. Leaving your department requires you to ignore your job. If I'm a paramedic I have to basically always be in or around medbay to be able to respond to situations, an engineer will always be being called off and a xenobiologist or xenoarcheologist is going to have little to no contact every round. People will just alt-tab more, or they will ignore their job and the game will become a "Let's sit in the bar instead of doing our job" sim imo.

 

?????

-Xeno(x)ology jobs tend to be some of the most mechanically engaging jobs on the station. Often they go off into their own world and don't talk to much of anyone the whole round because their job amounts to a round-long minigame. Or they die to a slime or hole.

-Talk to your coworkers

-The crew in general is going to be far less interested in your bluespace slimes and artifacts than your department

-You can talk to anyone you want without going to the bar, just use your PDA.

-Talk to your coworkers.

And paramedics are the ones who are SUPPOSED to leave their department to fetch wounded, I thought? Along with engineers who need to fix things?

I don't understand your complaint here. All you're losing is the ability to gab at everyone on the station at once from any place on the station.

When leaving as a paramedic, your goal is not to interact with anyone beyond grabbing and dragging them. Engineers are constantly being pulled away to fix things and so can't hold conversations either. I feel like this results in a lot of sitting and staring at your screen, at least with common there's something to read and people who you at least feel like you CAN talk to as opposed to just waiting for someone in your department to speak (Assuming there's anyone in there even).

I'll concede that xenobio's often off in their own little world, but a comment on slimes killing xenobiologists makes me think that this would be hell for paramedics and the like. Shaft miners would be less able to yell for help when they fall off a cliff and instead of just being recovered dead they would never be found. This wouldn't be too bad if they weren't removing a vital piece of equipment from the game by doing that, a rigsuit/mining voidsuit.

All in all I think the superior option here would be to integrate IT with keeping these channels running when it comes out, so it becomes more of a luxury than a constant, but removing it partially/all-together seems like it would heck a lot of stuff up and there could maybe be other options to play around more with the radio, like putting radio jammers on traitor uplinks or having a service available that cuts all comms for 5 minutes or so including station bounced and intercomm.

[Kaed]

When leaving as a paramedic, your goal is not to interact with anyone beyond grabbing and dragging them. Engineers are constantly being pulled away to fix things and so can't hold conversations either. I feel like this results in a lot of sitting and staring at your screen, at least with common there's something to read and people who you at least feel like you CAN talk to as opposed to just waiting for someone in your department to speak (Assuming there's anyone in there even).

I'll concede that xenobio's often off in their own little world, but a comment on slimes killing xenobiologists makes me think that this would be hell for paramedics and the like. Shaft miners would be less able to yell for help when they fall off a cliff and instead of just being recovered dead they would never be found. This wouldn't be too bad if they weren't removing a vital piece of equipment from the game by doing that, a rigsuit/mining voidsuit.

All in all I think the superior option here would be to integrate IT with keeping these channels running when it comes out, so it becomes more of a luxury than a constant, but removing it partially/all-together seems like it would heck a lot of stuff up and there could maybe be other options to play around more with the radio, like putting radio jammers on traitor uplinks or having a service available that cuts all comms for 5 minutes or so including station bounced and intercomm.

 

Counterpoint on the calling for help: Suit sensors. Medical keeps telling everyone they need to turn them on. If you keep ignoring medical, it's your own fault if you end up somewhere you can't call for help. The suit sensors can even convey your location far better than your pain-stuttered wails for help, since it provides coordinates. It's an incredibly valuable tool people should put more attention to it, instead of just sullenly leaving them off forever and relying on common for literally all communicative effort ever.

Once again though, I have to point out that you're not going to be living in total silence without the common channel. If not being able to hear a dozen people's random conversations at all times that you're not even participating in makes you feel miserable and lonely, I don't know how you get through life.

But I feel I should point out DatBerry mentioned we wouldn't be doing this mechanic every round. You could just play in the normal comms round if it makes you deeply uncomfortable, and the people who like it can play in no-common rounds.

I also don't know how this mysterious IT department is going to work. It seems like integrating anything else into it before we even have some kind of release information on it is a bit preemptive.

[NoahKirchner]

When leaving as a paramedic, your goal is not to interact with anyone beyond grabbing and dragging them. Engineers are constantly being pulled away to fix things and so can't hold conversations either. I feel like this results in a lot of sitting and staring at your screen, at least with common there's something to read and people who you at least feel like you CAN talk to as opposed to just waiting for someone in your department to speak (Assuming there's anyone in there even).

I'll concede that xenobio's often off in their own little world, but a comment on slimes killing xenobiologists makes me think that this would be hell for paramedics and the like. Shaft miners would be less able to yell for help when they fall off a cliff and instead of just being recovered dead they would never be found. This wouldn't be too bad if they weren't removing a vital piece of equipment from the game by doing that, a rigsuit/mining voidsuit.

All in all I think the superior option here would be to integrate IT with keeping these channels running when it comes out, so it becomes more of a luxury than a constant, but removing it partially/all-together seems like it would heck a lot of stuff up and there could maybe be other options to play around more with the radio, like putting radio jammers on traitor uplinks or having a service available that cuts all comms for 5 minutes or so including station bounced and intercomm.

 

Counterpoint on the calling for help: Suit sensors. Medical keeps telling everyone they need to turn them on. If you keep ignoring medical, it's your own fault if you end up somewhere you can't call for help. The suit sensors can even convey your location far better than your pain-stuttered wails for help, since it provides coordinates. It's an incredibly valuable tool people should put more attention to it, instead of just sullenly leaving them off forever and relying on common for literally all communicative effort ever.

Once again though, I have to point out that you're not going to be living in total silence without the common channel. If not being able to hear a dozen people's random conversations at all times that you're not even participating in makes you feel miserable and lonely, I don't know how you get through life.

But I feel I should point out DatBerry mentioned we wouldn't be doing this mechanic every round. You could just play in the normal comms round if it makes you deeply uncomfortable, and the people who like it can play in no-common rounds.

While it won't be total silence, the station would still feel a lot emptier, a fair bit moreso than it already does. It doesn't make me feel miserable nor lonely to not be able to hear conversations, though, it's just boring. Desk jobs where you're on call but need to remain nearby a lot of times have people sitting alt-tabbed in chairs at medical front desk and I think this is pretty good evidence of the normal response to lack of communication. Most people don't go to the library and grab a book, they alt-tab and watch a youtube video until someone knocks on a window, less information to be able to read won't work to help that.

I know and I suppose that could work, but issues with voting on polarizing issues like that is such a major change could ruin the round for at least half of the playerbase, if they like or don't like comms. Then you only have half-pop.

[Kaed]

While it won't be total silence, the station would still feel a lot emptier, a fair bit moreso than it already does. It doesn't make me feel miserable nor lonely to not be able to hear conversations, though, it's just boring. Desk jobs where you're on call but need to remain nearby a lot of times have people sitting alt-tabbed in chairs at medical front desk and I think this is pretty good evidence of the normal response to lack of communication. Most people don't go to the library and grab a book, they alt-tab and watch a youtube video until someone knocks on a window, less information to be able to read won't work to help that.

I know and I suppose that could work, but issues with voting on polarizing issues like that is such a major change could ruin the round for at least half of the playerbase, if they like or don't like comms. Then you only have half-pop.

 

Half pop for us is still over 20 people. That's more than enough for a good round. And I still think that assuming you know what percentage of people will hate something before it's even trailed is presumptuous. Maybe everyone will hate it and it gets scrapped. Maybe most everyone loves it and we just change.

[tmmytbbt]

The empty feeling of a barren station with only department comms will probably make me lose my will to play not to mention various departmental issues such as the paramedic being unable to respond well to stuff or sec not being quick to reach in case of emergency. I'm firmly against this as Im sure itd kill a large portion of my joy for the game.

[whiterabit]

I don't believe there would be any major problems with medical or sec response so long as they were actually competent. A system like this just makes it so afking at the desk all shift is no longer all that viable, you need to be proactive. Make the rounds of the departments and check in face to face, divide up the team and have guards assigned to watch over certain departments. As for medical, suit sensors save lives, they'd just be all the more important here. As a paramedic, half the time you're already responding to calls based off of suit sensors or coordinating with the AI to locate someone. I don't see that changing much here, common freq medical calls are rarely descriptive of location.

Past that, I really don't think the station would feel all that barren from this change, you can't walk ten feet without tripping over someone 80% of the time and even in deadhour there's places where crew congregate. And intercoms.

[Kaed]

The empty feeling of a barren station with only department comms will probably make me lose my will to play not to mention various departmental issues such as the paramedic being unable to respond well to stuff or sec not being quick to reach in case of emergency. I'm firmly against this as Im sure itd kill a large portion of my joy for the game.

 

resists urge to roll eyes

I feel like putting a few more strategic intercomms in, particularly next next to desk positions might help a bit with the people who are going to be sitting in place all round, might help with the feelings of barrenness. They'd be next to a form of general communication for everyone else who is also sitting at a desk or intercomm. It would basically replace the common channel, by making it location based rather than global.

[tmmytbbt]

Im just stating how I feel. I dont think *I* would enjoy it. No need to be snippy.

[NoahKirchner]

While it won't be total silence, the station would still feel a lot emptier, a fair bit moreso than it already does. It doesn't make me feel miserable nor lonely to not be able to hear conversations, though, it's just boring. Desk jobs where you're on call but need to remain nearby a lot of times have people sitting alt-tabbed in chairs at medical front desk and I think this is pretty good evidence of the normal response to lack of communication. Most people don't go to the library and grab a book, they alt-tab and watch a youtube video until someone knocks on a window, less information to be able to read won't work to help that.

I know and I suppose that could work, but issues with voting on polarizing issues like that is such a major change could ruin the round for at least half of the playerbase, if they like or don't like comms. Then you only have half-pop.

 

Half pop for us is still over 20 people. That's more than enough for a good round. And I still think that assuming you know what percentage of people will hate something before it's even trailed is presumptuous. Maybe everyone will hate it and it gets scrapped. Maybe most everyone loves it and we just change.

 

I am willing to disagree about the half pop bit. When pop drops to 20, you normally get ten-fifteen people in the game at what is, in my time, 4-6 AM and a lot of times that doesn't include an engineer or android or you get something like 4 sec officers (Since sec is arguably the most popular dept) and 1 doctor, 1 engineer and then two other jobs.

As far as the percentages go, that was assuming that the change passes initial testing. I'm arguing the best possible scenario if it passes testing from my point of view, that of being against it, which would be a roughly 50/50 split with voting. Sure maybe it'll go great and this entire conversation would be for naught or it'll go terribly but in the event that it passes I see it being pretty divisive. I could always be wrong but it's just a concern that I have, pop dropping when people don't want to play a station with significantly less ability to converse but with more meaningful convos.

---------------

[mention]whiterabit[/mention]

Departments would, I hope, still have radios so there would be no need to meet face to face within the department, the only people you'd be unable to communicate would be out of department people (I would assume normally engineering and cargo if you're working at the desk like you said.) Engineering would require you to move, sure, but people already walk down to cargo when they need stuff and it's no big change from the desk afking. If anything it would keep people from being able to leave the department since they'd have no forewarning if anyone is coming in until they're already in the door.

As it stands, suit sensors are off by default and when I play paramedic I see very very few people turn them on since the verb is a pain to find if you're new and not too many people remember. To be fair, though, this is a bit out of the scope of this suggestion but I am more than willing to concede that suit sensors would definitely help medical, but right now I think that they are less than optimal.

As far as your comments on sec with guards and what-not, that could bring in some rather neat RP if people are assigned to areas like medical or research, but in all honesty I see security taking the smallest hit from this change. As it stands, yes, people can blab over the radio about their murder but beyond that most of security's job is done on their internal channel or things are witnessed by sec officers. This may just be my experience, but from the sec I've played I really think that this would be a pretty small change, really only affecting that one ass who screams "AHH OH GOT JOHNNY MCGEE'S KILLING ME IN MAINTENANCE" as his guts are being turned into a liquid and painted on the wall. I see it affecting medical (as previously mentioned) and engineering. Engineering, from when I play it at least, gets most of their things from people saying over the radio "Uhh, this happened", or "Hey electrician, is this APC supposed to be red?" Without radios, anyone with an engineering issue is going to have to go try to find and beg an engineer to assist them. Though to be fair, this is less of a poor change outright and more of just a change to how engineers operate (And there ARE always PDAs)

Research are a bunch of recluses as it stand so this only affects them with people dying in xenobiology and xenoarcheologists but xenobio was already addressed.

[whiterabit]

Engineering is lucky enough to have alarm monitors which cover most every critical system they might need to repair. I'd say many engineers, similarly to medical when crew actually have their sensors on, will be spotting those issues before anyone even yells out about it over radio. However, this obviously doesn't apply to damages which haven't resulted in a breach or damaged cameras, but I think those sorts of damages are minor enough that a walk over to engineering or sending the message through the heads of staff/AI wouldn't hurt much. PDA's, of course, always remain an option.

As for the suit sensors thing, yeah the randomization of their status on start does usually cause a lot of people to neglect them, but even now there are plenty of AI's, heads and medical staff who like to hound the crew about enabling them. I'd imagine many crew feel more comfortable ignoring that message because of the leeway the common frequency gives them for getting help even without them. If suit sensor were to begin playing a greater role in ensuring survival without that crutch, more people would PROBABLY be likely to enable them on reminders.

[NoahKirchner]

Engineering is lucky enough to have alarm monitors which cover most every critical system they might need to repair. I'd say many engineers, similarly to medical when crew actually have their sensors on, will be spotting those issues before anyone even yells out about it over radio. However, this obviously doesn't apply to damages which haven't resulted in a breach or damaged cameras, but I think those sorts of damages are minor enough that a walk over to engineering or sending the message through the heads of staff/AI wouldn't hurt much. PDA's, of course, always remain an option.

As for the suit sensors thing, yeah the randomization of their status on start does usually cause a lot of people to neglect them, but even now there are plenty of AI's, heads and medical staff who like to hound the crew about enabling them. I'd imagine many crew feel more comfortable ignoring that message because of the leeway the common frequency gives them for getting help even without them. If suit sensor were to begin playing a greater role in ensuring survival without that crutch, more people would PROBABLY be likely to enable them on reminders.

 

You bring up a lot of fair points, though an issue I see with making suit sensors this important is that the "Mandatory suit sensors on blue" thing becomes less relevant (Since you can't say "Ow, help"), and not having your tracking beacon on might become suspicious, especially because I occasionally see players singled out for not having them on. My personal philosophy on it is that suit sensors should be reserved for high intensity situations, but this is not really possible because of mining and open space in general, but ofc I don't decide stuff like that.

[Kaed]

You bring up a lot of fair points, though an issue I see with making suit sensors this important is that the "Mandatory suit sensors on blue" thing becomes less relevant (Since you can't say "Ow, help"), and not having your tracking beacon on might become suspicious, especially because I occasionally see players singled out for not having them on. My personal philosophy on it is that suit sensors should be reserved for high intensity situations, but this is not really possible because of mining and open space in general, but ofc I don't decide stuff like that.

 

I don't particularly see a reason why they need to remain extra relevant somehow. Either you turn on your suit sensors or not. The mandatory minimums thing has always seemed to me to just be there to give crew antagonists an excuse to not have their sensors on so they can lurk in maintenance or go places they shouldn't. By the time suit sensors are mandatory, people probably already know who they are so it's irrelevant. No one is going to single anyone out for not turning them on, because regulations aren't changing regarding sensors.

People might have to change how much they ignore them, though.

[NoahKirchner]

You bring up a lot of fair points, though an issue I see with making suit sensors this important is that the "Mandatory suit sensors on blue" thing becomes less relevant (Since you can't say "Ow, help"), and not having your tracking beacon on might become suspicious, especially because I occasionally see players singled out for not having them on. My personal philosophy on it is that suit sensors should be reserved for high intensity situations, but this is not really possible because of mining and open space in general, but ofc I don't decide stuff like that.

 

I don't particularly see a reason why they need to remain extra relevant somehow. Either you turn on your suit sensors or not. The mandatory minimums thing has always seemed to me to just be there to give crew antagonists an excuse to not have their sensors on so they can lurk in maintenance or go places they shouldn't. By the time suit sensors are mandatory, people probably already know who they are so it's irrelevant. No one is going to single anyone out for not turning them on, because regulations aren't changing regarding sensors.

People might have to change how much they ignore them, though.

People get called out for it by medical all the time even with a common radio.

[DrHobo]

Yeah there's something addicting to watching the stream of common, kinda like a youtube live stream but a hell of a lot classier. It's kinda like the heartbeat for the station and would be missed if it just disappeared.

I think segregating people by common and no-common rounds is a bit ridiculous when it would be easier just adding an RP-enforced emergency channel everywhere in the meantime so folks could choose to turn off common which would still be moderated by the likes silent PDAMers informing security and internal affairs, NTSL scripts would be better used to silence folks that are really acting up and work as a more mechanical moderator.

As a veteran xenobiologist, common keeps you sane and stops you going full slimefuhrer as you don't have the time to be standing around reading newscasters. The round long minigame would get a bit repetitive and boring without the stream of chat while conversation with "co-workers" would just end up "Hello slimes" and "Blorble motherfucker"x30 most of the time. That random public chats become gossip which folk talk, whisper, PDAM and write IRs about as is, loose lips can sink stations and ruin careers when folks lose their composure on it.

We'd need some kinda simian voice sound effects for when people speak or shout to alert people who are tabbed out, would also simulate the noise of a crowd if done right. It's a bit crazy how ya can hear the doors but somebody shouting next to you is silent.

[Zundy]

Yeah, a bit of a segue but some sound effect to denote someone is talking in the vicinity would be awesome. Perhaps even have them have different sounds per gender and species.

[Kaed]

Yeah, a bit of a segue but some sound effect to denote someone is talking in the vicinity would be awesome. Perhaps even have them have different sounds per gender and species.

 

Make a new topic.

[Arrow768]

As pointed out already. Please stick to the rule of 1 suggestion per topic.

Regarding the suggestion.

I am not a huge fan of it.

It might work, but it can get very lonely if you are in a department with just a few staff members.

While going out to meet others is a nice thought, it doesnt solve the issue that you are here to perform a job.

In addition, certain antags need a common channel.

If you think about raiders / mercs that took a hostage.

While they might be able to just communicate that directly over the command frequency, it just restricts another part of the gameplay to "command only".

I really loved the rounds where the antags took a few hostages and had the crew hold a vote who should be killed an who should live.

(I think they even set up a video livestream of it to the bar entertainment monitors)

Stuff like that would no longer be possible.

Having said all that, I would support a heavier enforcement of "common channel for important stuff" in game.

Maybe with a easy option to block certain people from using tcoms, that are extensively spamming the common channel.

But that would be something for another topic.

[Kaed]

In addition, certain antags need a common channel.

If you think about raiders / mercs that took a hostage.

While they might be able to just communicate that directly over the command frequency, it just restricts another part of the gameplay to "command only".

I really loved the rounds where the antags took a few hostages and had the crew hold a vote who should be killed an who should live.

(I think they even set up a video livestream of it to the bar entertainment monitors)

Stuff like that would no longer be possible.

 

Nah, that's easy to work around, if we just alter how merc (traitor) communication works. There isn't a particular reason WHY you should be able to 'intercept' every channel but somehow not be able to talk on them (that I know of), other than 'that's just how it was designed'. Make mercs and Raiders have captain-level comms access, and give them a tool, perhaps on their special PDA that they keep around to open and close their ship (and just provide something similar for Raiders to start with), that lets them hack into the station general broadcast network to make station announcements about their hostages and demands, similar to how heads and AI can do (but not centcomm announcements, that's a traitor purchase thing). It should definitely have some sort of glitchy header to make it clear someone is broadcasting this that is not supposed to be in the system.

This would gain more attention than them getting lost in a flurry of people talking in common channel anyway. And since anyone can communicate with them, everyone can still participate.

There are like, ways around any use of common channel that would just require you to think outside of the lazy halfhazard box that is its existence.

[ForgottenTraveller]

I support the idea.

But with those that are against it because they would feel cut off. What if we leave the entertainment channel active, but only on intercomms and station bounce radios. Meaning if they want an access point to everyone. They will have it at the expense of an external item.

An possibly give intercomms like 2 listening slots but only one mic slot, so people could listen to two channels, but have to manually set which they want to talk to. But station bounce stay with one.

If that was implemented, possibly manufactured or ordered by cargo. Have an entertainment receiver. A headset for your other ear with no mic so people can listen in to that one channel only on the go, contributing to it you still need one of the other methods.

[MoondancerPony]

This seems interesting, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. Maybe it could be trialed?

I'd also LOVE additions to NTSL, as I seem to be the only one who uses it. It's incredibly useful for, say, coordinating information between channels with a broadcast command, and not having a common channel would make that incredibly useful.

[TrickingTrapster]

Pffff, common channel. Oh my. I see both benefits and issues with its removal, though more benefits than issues honestly. A few things to note though.

One. What will you do when there are no heads AND no AI? This happens from time to time, so unless regular department workers get some kind of announce function, no suit sensor reminders, telling people who to PDA when something breaks, no mentions of anything. And while you can say you can circumvent it by other means, be that as it may, that is just inconveniencing the players.

Two. Game feel outside of roleplay. Things like antags turning off your sensors, and then pushing you down a cliff. "Good antag play"? To me, it would just feel incredibly powergamed to remove me from the round entirely. Medical will never, ever find you if it happens and it essentially just amounts to you getting removed from the round because you were the only miner and the antag cargo tech just prevented you from returning as this character to this round ever. Also, while it causes trouble to remove it for certain antagonists, it buffs others very hard (especially sneaky-things antags, like vamps, lings and cult), and will make it easier for them to do anything really. (Because it's so much fun to get ling succd in maintenance without the ability to call for help and essentially be locked out of your character, having to wait 30 mins only for it to happen again.)

All in all, I'm pretty torn on this. I think I would like it on most rounds, but rounds that include the then-super strong antags like lings or cult, I think that would remove a lot of the caution they would otherwise need to employ. Especially cult would get really annoying with no clear way to warn other departments as a whole of them. Other than my antag concerns though, I do think it would enforce more interaction out of the crew than just shit talking on common.

[themaskedman2]

I kinda like the idea primarily because there are SO many ways to communicate that are just ignored. Intercoms are only used if comms goes out. PDA's are rarely used. Messaging rooms are never used, station alert things or whatever those little wall computers are never get used. So yeah, I think i'd agree to this.

Maybe, what if the Common channel could still exist, but was restricted to emergencies? Only being available on red alert, or maybe being restricted on blue. I don't know. I'm half asleep.

[Kaed]

I dunno about red alert, but it was repeatedly discussed to keep the common channel tied to intercomms.