[1 Dismissal] More Poisons

[Saudus]

My suggestion is really quite simple, lets add more poisons to the game.

There are not that many poisons (5 on wiki page) with not that many uses. Sure, other compounds like mercury and radium can also be used as de-facto poisons, but it just isn't the same. One of the few things I miss from /tg/ are their massive variety of poisons. Now, I am not suggesting to add all of them or anything, but stealing a few could be nice.

We already have a suffocation poison as well as various disablers (paralytic/confusing/death-state effects), but we lack a straight forward damage dealer (I know medical has "toxin bottles" but it just isn't the same.

I would suggest stealing two poisons from /tg/. Cyanide and Heparin. The mechanics for them can probably be taken relatively straight up from /tg/, but they would in essence be a more pure toxic damage dealer and an internal bleeding poison.

Four other toxins that could be fun to take would be Sulfonal/Mute toxin/Teslium/Anacea, but the two above would be more important at least to me.

I hope you agree, antag chemist/chem-scientist feels a little empty to me without more dangerous gas bombs.

(https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_chemistry#Toxins as a reference)

[Synnono]

As a note, we have cyanide already and it's quite powerful.

[Saudus]

What?!? It isn't on the wiki... how do you make it?

EDIT: Also can't find it on baystation wiki and searching the forums gave me nothing either...

[sonicgotnuked]

What?!? It isn't on the wiki... how do you make it?

EDIT: Also can't find it on baystation wiki and searching the forums gave me nothing either...

 

Only way to get cyanide is really lucky cargo spawn for a container or cyanide apples that you mutate from regular apples.

[Azande]

You can't mix cyanide (we should be able too >_>) , it'd be nice to have more dangerous medicines that are powerful but also dangerous in excess too.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

You can instantly kill people by overdosing them far more effectively than any established poisons. If you are able to make pills, just fill it with 60 units of dexalin+ or something with a very low overdose limit. They VERY rapidly develop respiration and toxin damage and in my testing tend to die within 10 seconds.

[Diggey]

Cyanide is already in the game,I'd know I play Botany as one of my mains

[Saudus]

Weird how the wiki doesn't describe dexalin plus doing oxy damage on ODs (basically all ODs just say toxin)?

Also, I'm thinking about antag actions such as gas bombings. While I guess I could maybe use medicines in gas bombs, it just wouldn't be as fun. Also gas tends to be unpredictable as to how many units people get in their blood. Dexalin plus is really easy to make, it's more rewarding to have something that is purely damaging (helps sec etc know you are up to no good) that is a bit more difficult to make.

And maybe I should clarify, I mean poisons that can be made in chemistry. I know Botany can make stuff too, and it's nice if they have unique stuff that chemistry doesn't, but it just feels like there isn't a pure "I wish to just plain kill you" poison for chemists at the moment.

[DrHobo]

Chlorine trifluoride is in a lot of other servers where they use chem heaters, it's one of the most dangerous substances IRL but even the Nazi's thought it was too dangerous to use. On Yog and Goon RP, it would make you instantly combust upon ingestion or if sprayed which would kill monkeys but folks would just stop, drop and roll it out. They never had real systems to handle organ damage! I was hoping to use it to ignite a giant thermite pill inside a monkey and melt through, causing a breach because monkey breach bomb, fuck yeah.

Pentetic acid was used to flush other reagents out the bloodstream, I think here there's Ipecac (fun fact, phoron in vomit can be toxic to those around it). Also there is chloral and soporific which if mixed right could instantly knock an unprotected somebody out when shot with a syringe gun, tgstation had carbon dioxide and chloral. There's also unstable mutagen which works in a high dose or even 10u+ phoron is poisonous as fuck, as Senpai (notice me dammit <3) says OD the fucker, bicard is suppose to be pretty savage and ya could slip a 60u pill in a drink. Napalm could be mixed in the mouth with 2 pills (relabel 2 essential meds). There is a lot of different ways a chem nerd can fuck people up. I've nae even mentioned what ya could do with potassium chlorophoride or cryptobiolin let alone the horrors from botany.

Most the poisons from tgstation were pretty useless and definitely far more effort than they were worth since pentetic acid was an all round antidote. Implementing more poisons would probably mean a chemical heating system would need to happen.

[Exia]

Pentetic acid was used to flush other reagents out the bloodstream, I think here there's Ipecac (fun fact, phoron in vomit can be toxic to those around it).

That's actually kinda wrong, ipecac pills are the 'messier' way to clean out the patient's stomach contents, while the 'cleaner' way is by using carbon pills. It does nothing for the blood. Blood cleansing requires dialysis.

 

There's also unstable mutagen which works in a high dose or even 10u+ phoron is poisonous as fuck, as Senpai (notice me dammit <3) says OD the fucker, bicard is suppose to be pretty savage and ya could slip a 60u pill in a drink.

Unfortunately, you can't actually slip a 60u pill in a drink unless the glass has a capacity of more than 60 units and is 60 units down its maximum capacity. The way dissolving pills seems to work is that if you dissolve a 60 unit pill into a beaker, it basically goes back into 60 units of its liquid form. So if you try to spike something that is already full, it just vanishes basically. With the changes to taste, people can now detect what tastes off in a drink, if it is spiked, meaning ODing someone with a spiked drink will be very difficult. One final, large hurdle when ODing them with a drink is that with 60 units in a glass, the drink becomes a 'glass of ???', making it look extremely suspicious.

Personally, I would prefer toxins that affect the mental state of the victim, causing them to go on hallucination-fueled rampages would be an interesting way to implicate someone without outright killing them. I am aware that there is mindbreaker that causes hallucinations, but people can also RP those out to simulate the character just being on drugs. Maybe the aggression toxin could have a constant message, much like methylphenidate and citalopram, that goes "You feel really angry for some reason!" or something similar.

[Saudus]

As mentioned, the pill thing really isn't useful to chemists. For a doctor who wishes to be immediately implicated afterwards, sure. For the bartender who wishes to have their drink look suspect as hell, sure. And botany can create lots of horrors yes but I'm talking about what a chemist can do with limited assistance from other areas (say phoron crystals). Can you just put a few random pills in the med storage and hope for the best? Sure, but that isn't really going to be fun antaggery. You don't direct that damage in a specific direction, meaning your antaggery motive better be "all must die!". You also don't get to see it, the person whom it happens to doesn't get any real interaction with the event either and I can only assume it will lead to hate in ooc and in ahelp over "the doctor is stupid and incompetent and OD:d me saltsaltsalt!".

And you can indeed knock people out instantly with syringes and set fire to people with 2 syringes (napalm, burns like a bastard when inside). And Potassium Chlorophoride is indeed a capable poison but it isn't a pure "damage dealer", it's more of a disabler with its weaken effect. A poison that just purely deals high levels of toxic damage and a poison that causes internal bleeding would have nice applications in the game. I also really like Exia's rampage toxin idea. Something that maybe needs to tick for a little while whilst ramping up hallucinogenic effects and lastly giving the player prompts to go on a rampage. It's a little lame that the most potent poisons are medicines dosed to oblivion to be honest.

EDIT: I just played a long round of extended, and did some tests on monkeys with different meds. I gave monkeys pills with different meds/poisons (usually 60units) and took notes on effects and such.

 

• Dex+ 60u pill: Vomited at ca 10min and toxin damage stalled at 45.
  
• Dermaline 60u pill: Died in ca 25sec with 192 burn damage
  
• Unstable Mutagen 60u pill: Mutated at 7min30sec, started receiving clone damage, decent toxin damage (very slow at first), vomited at 10min, critical at ca 13min30sec, died at 30min
  
• Synapzine 60u pill: Vomited after 7min30sec and damage stalled then (ca 30tox)
  
• Phoron 20u pill: Released phoron into the air at ca 7min, critical at 20min, dead at 32 min
  
• Potassium Chlorophoride 60u pill: Critical ca 4 min, hovering around 0% damage (periodically healing), dead at 25min
  
• Lexorin 60u pill: Dead at just under 5min

 

A bit weird IMO that a rather simple to make med like dermaline was hands down the most dangerous. Will probably try and test again some time but with injections and later gas grenades.

[Saudus]

So I just tried Dermaline 60u in syringe and gas grenade form.

The syringe killed in under 30 sec (counting from starting to inject first syringe).

The gas grenade killed the monkey but I don't know how fast, because I was too busy trying to run away since I got gassed too (guess the main floor RnD test chamber isn't air tight behind those two glass doors?). I died in under 30sec and got husked I think, so the monkey probably died in the same amount of time.

[Lohikar]

So I just tried Dermaline 60u in syringe and gas grenade form.

The syringe killed in under 30 sec (counting from starting to inject first syringe).

The gas grenade killed the monkey but I don't know how fast, because I was too busy trying to run away since I got gassed too (guess the main floor RnD test chamber isn't air tight behind those two glass doors?). I died in under 30sec and got husked I think, so the monkey probably died in the same amount of time.

This is getting nerfed soon.

[Scheveningen]

I think it makes little sense that beneficial drugs kill people harder as an OD effect than toxics like phoron, chlorophoride and lexorin do.

[Saudus]

Nice to hear it is getting nerfed, because I would almost feel like I'm cheating if I used that as an antag. It's also clear that the chemistry guide on the wiki might need some updating. It says, for example, that dermaline OD causes toxins damage, which my husked corpse begs to differ.

I love the current poisons, they have great utility and serve a good purpose. Just wish there were more poisons. And since cyanide is already in the game, it might be nice to include it in a chemist's arsenal.

EDIT: 30u dermaline kills in same time as 60u (30 sec), tried it with injection. 30u napalm injected takes 1min15-30 sec for reference.

[DrHobo]

Well learn something new everyday, thanks I'll have to test out carbon

Shoulda known puttin a 60u pill in a 30u cup in ridiculous, it's what happens when I end up postin at 3am.

Yeah think I was with ya when ya were testing the dermaline, it's ridiculously fast at killing.

[Saudus]

Although for some reason it doesn't work on monkeys in gas form. I just assumed the monkey died when I did too, but I tried yesterday and it didnt work. Biggest grenade was 225u of dermaline, did jack shit to the monkey.

EDIT: Ohh and by the way, 20u is just as deadly as 30 or 60, so you probably can cram down a pill even in a 30u glass.

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. There are already a plethora of creative ways to kill some via chemistry.