[+1 dismissal]Merge FT and Detective

[Exia]

Now, hear me out before you say that this is more realistic than having two detectives that can do both.

At current, the paper qualifications of the forensic tech and the detective are as follows.

 

Detective:

At least 25 years of age, applicable Criminal Forensics degree or 7 years experience in Criminal Forensics/Investigation, and completed 4 week Security cadet-ship.

Forensic Technician:

At least 25 years of age, applicable Criminal Forensics degree or 7 years experience in Criminal Forensics/Investigation.

 

Yes, they're largely the same. No, they don't do the same thing, but they can do the same things.

As it stands right now, the forensic tech and detective can do each other's jobs should the other not be present. I feel this defeats the purpose of splitting a job as, regardless of realism, if they're already doing each other's jobs they may as well be one role.

Another thing, slightly unrelated. the detective currently has a revolver, which is slightly strange as the initial purpose of the revolver, or so I was told, was as a self-defense tool at a crime scene to prevent offenders from silencing them. Both the detective and forensic tech at this point seem to be equally important in the gathering of evidence, but the FT seems to be particularly vulnerable due to their clear lack of a firearm. I'd just like someone to set me straight on this point if I'm just sprouting nonsense.

[Butterrobber202]

no. We've done this before and it always was poorly done. I dunno if you were here for when we had them grouped together but it was a shitfeast.

[AllyBearsley]

If they are capable of doing the same job and have very similar job responsibilities and qualifications, I don't see why they aren't just alt titles. Either we really make them different, unique, and useful or just make them alt titles.

[Exia]

If you mean from when before new map was released, yes, I was around and job delegations can already be done between players. In fact, most of the time I would talk to the other detective and ask what role they would rather perform, investigations or forensics. I'm not actually sure what you mean by 'it was a shitfest', it's not very specific. I'm just answering what I think you meant by that.

[K0NFL1QT]

This really grinds my gears and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what a detective and CSI actually is. I would suggest further differentiating the two jobs by having their qualifications changed. As I understand, a detective in US police forces is actually a promotion from regular officer if you can prove you have the insight, logic and other mental capacities for deduction and investigation; change the detectives qualification to not require forensics degrees but instead a few years of standard officer employment with a good record, rather than just a cadetship. A CSI is far more akin to a scientist or doctor, requiring hard science and medical degrees, and is hired specifically for their lab based on their education rather than rising up through the ranks of regular officers.

[SomeGuy9283]

As I understand, a detective in US police forces is actually a promotion from regular officer if you can prove you have the insight, logic and other mental capacities for deduction and investigation; change the detectives qualification to not require forensics degrees but instead a few years of standard officer employment with a good record, rather than just a cadetship. A CSI is far more akin to a scientist or doctor, requiring hard science and medical degrees, and is hired specifically for their lab based on their education rather than rising up through the ranks of regular officers.

Sounds good, but would the detectives qualification be experience with any relevant force, or specifically while at NT?

[Azande]

After playing Detective for a bit, I don't think they need a re-merge, I genuinely enjoyed working as detective, interviewing, connecting dots and such.

[LordFowl]

If they are capable of doing the same job and have very similar job responsibilities and qualifications, I don't see why they aren't just alt titles. Either we really make them different, unique, and useful or just make them alt titles.

 

In fact, most of the time I would talk to the other detective and ask what role they would rather perform, investigations or forensics.

 

Clearly they are distinct roles if in the old Exodus you would separate yourselves based on investigations or forensics, which is somewhat contrary to your original point.

My intention in originally splitting the two roles was to return to the system we had before the Baymerge, where they were separated and everything worked out fine. It is my belief that having them separated is for the best. According to my understanding, detectives should not be doing the CSI's job and vice versa, although in emergencies they can. That they can do each other's jobs in dire situations does not justify re-merging them - you will find the same is true for many jobs.

Instead of suggesting they be re-merged, why not suggest ways of further distinguishing the two as jobs? This qualifications oversight seems like a good place to start.

[AllyBearsley]

Instead of suggesting they be re-merged, why not suggest ways of further distinguishing the two as jobs? This qualifications oversight seems like a good place to start.

 

I'm actually really okay with further distinction, as I briefly mentioned in my post. Either make them work a different slot or make them an alt title.

However, I would like to address:

...although in emergencies they can. That they can do each other's jobs in dire situations does not justify re-merging them - you will find the same is true for many jobs.

 

Which jobs that are different slots are like this? I completely admit ignorance to this and would like to know what jobs that are different slots yet don't feel like it, so that later recommendations to further distinguish them could be made.

[LordFowl]

You will find that many atmospheric technicians in emergencies take it upon themselves to do engineering work, and vice versa. The warden can do a security officer's job and vice versa, for just two examples.

That a job slot can do another job slot's job does not mean that those two jobs are the same. The detective's work is very different from the CSI's work, even though they can both do it if it absolutely needs to be done.

[AllyBearsley]

Ah and those roles have distinct job responsibilities and not easy overlap. These distinct responsibilities and easy overlap is something you wish to expand on with FT and Detective. I can fully accept that. If I go Engineer, I don't feel like I can just waltz into Atmos and work on all that stuff. I am also mechanically blocked from doing that with access. So I feel it should be more the same with FT and Detective right now, yet it seems it doesn't.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The detective is not the same as forensics in a roleplay setting. Detectives at your local police department do not waltz into the CSI lab and perform laboratory tests. Gameplay-wise the CSI is the one that handles the physical forensics while the detective takes that evidence for a case report and adds what he found out himself in interviews and deduction.

Detectives should not be doing CSI. Detectives need a degree in criminal investigation, CSI needs a degree in criminal forensics. Only IPCs, Skrell, or really old dudes have a plausible reason to do both at the same time.

[DeadLantern]

Having the relationship between the FT and Detective makes crime-investigating be more alive and great. Simplifying the process only makes it more uninteresting, rather than streamlining the process.

[Alberyk]

No, they are two different jobs with different duties and expectations. We should aim to make them more different from each other instead of just returning to the exodus' situation.

Voting for dismissal.

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. Binning.