[Accepted] Aboshehab/Sharp Human Deputy Lore Developer Application

[sdtwbaj]

Can I ask why?

 

I think more is better, as far as lore team and staff team diversity. More involvement from the players, and a bigger net being cast to get things done.

 

Much of the lore team and current applicants to it are (or have been) imported or shared from/with other staff teams (multiple mods, devs, CCIA and wiki). At the time of me writing this, you'd only be able to support one of the current applicants to this position if you are excluding people who participate on other teams, as it seems there is a lack of outside interest.

Are you calling out admins specifically when you take this stance? If not, what do you perceive as the problem with lore team members contributing to multiple staff teams?

 

I'm being specific to the mods and admins, yes. The lore team and CCIA, I think, work better as normal player teams than having admin staff involved. The spots can be open for players who want to contribute in their own way to the server, but might not be suitable or willing to go for moderating.

[Skull132]

I'm being specific to the mods and admins, yes. The lore team and CCIA, I think, work better as normal player teams than having admin staff involved. The spots can be open for players who want to contribute in their own way to the server, but might not be suitable or willing to go for moderating.

 

I find it funny, and ultimately shortsighted, how you list admins as something other than players. While I do understand the meme that admins are these dark and private overlords who sit behind ranks of moderators and staff bureaucracy. That they're disconnected from the players, as this is the literal translation of your thesis. If you start viewing admins as something other than players, and worse, start restricting them based on this, then they will become non-players. And they will become disconnected from the community.

Understand that, at present, you're attempting to limit a player's ability to apply for an open position merely because of the rank he already holds. You're thus limiting a player's ability to get involved in the community in a manner which is extended to all players, again, merely because of the rank he already holds.

Can you understand how idiotic and circular your logic is?

[Azande]

Understand that, at present, you're attempting to limit a player's ability to apply for an open position merely because of the rank he already holds. You're thus limiting a player's ability to get involved in the community in a manner which is extended to all players, again, merely because of the rank he already holds.

Can you understand how idiotic and circular your logic is?

 

Didn't your administration impose the rule of Mods not being able to be CCIA and Mods at the same time...? Didn't we have a rule about staff not being able to double over to lore for a long time (notice: we must have had it for a reason, even if it was recently lifted by Jackboot).

I think you're being kinda rude.

[calion12]

I think more is better, as far as lore team and staff team diversity. More involvement from the players, and a bigger net being cast to get things done.

 

Much of the lore team and current applicants to it are (or have been) imported or shared from/with other staff teams (multiple mods, devs, CCIA and wiki). At the time of me writing this, you'd only be able to support one of the current applicants to this position if you are excluding people who participate on other teams, as it seems there is a lack of outside interest.

Are you calling out admins specifically when you take this stance? If not, what do you perceive as the problem with lore team members contributing to multiple staff teams?

 

I'm being specific to the mods and admins, yes. The lore team and CCIA, I think, work better as normal player teams than having admin staff involved. The spots can be open for players who want to contribute in their own way to the server, but might not be suitable or willing to go for moderating.

 

I would just like to hop in here real quick and ask, is there anything stopping those ‘regular players’ from applying for the role? If not then what exactly does it matter if someone with a rank already applies for the role? Granted they may be more well known and stuff but in the long run, if people don’t think they are capable of the role they will (I would hope) voice this rather than just smile and nod along. Perhaps I do not fully understand how all this works and forgive me if I am talking out of my ass here but it seems like an odd point to say that ranked members are stopping players from getting the role.

[Skull132]

Understand that, at present, you're attempting to limit a player's ability to apply for an open position merely because of the rank he already holds. You're thus limiting a player's ability to get involved in the community in a manner which is extended to all players, again, merely because of the rank he already holds.

Can you understand how idiotic and circular your logic is?

 

Didn't your administration impose the rule of Mods not being able to be CCIA and Mods at the same time...? Didn't we have a rule about staff not being able to double over to lore for a long time (notice: we must have had it for a reason, even if it was recently lifted by Jackboot).

I think you're being kinda rude.

 

I find my statements accurate in describing the posts I was presented with. As I find your misinformed. So allow me to inform you.

Administrative staff are not permitted to be members of the CCIA because the latter is meant to act on IC information as much as possible. There is a legitimate conflict of interest between those two specific teams. Being a mod, or an admin for that matter, gives you access to an immense wealth of IC information via OOC means. This is not something that can be avoided while being a mod or an admin. As such, to retain the integrity of the CCIA, and to dodge any accusations of their decisions being based on knowledge acquired from outside the game, no active members of the administrative staff are allowed to join.

From my view point, no such conflict of interest exists between lore writers and the administrative staff. The same can be said about most any combination, which is why they're permitted.

Addendum. The main reason I could see to raise the issue as plainly as, "You're an admin, stay in your team," would be to avoid a situation where a small, closed circle of individuals handles all staff operations. That is to say, instead of expanding and recruiting new people, which would bring forth new ideas and so on, the staff would simply disperse responsibility between currently active members. This is, however, far from the present case. For every Synnono that applies to their third department to manage the wiki, we have a SeniorScore the Gondola and Eve hired as new blood. For every Coalf applying for Lore Master, we have a Tomiix getting hired to help out with Unathi lore.

[Bygonehero]

I once shared the view that admin staff shouldn't be involved with lore teams, not because of any reasons that you listed [mention]sdtwbaj[/mention], but rather to ensure that average rounds aren't just one big circlejerk, where any interesting or outside the norm roleplay is discouraged. I believed this at the time because I came from other servers where this was the norm.

I do not think this is a useful way to see the relationship between admins, lore staff, and players, not for Aurora at least. As skull said, separating admins from roles will alienate them from other people. From my perspective, we should be doing the opposite. I've not had more fun playing SS13 than I have recently. The events that admins have designed have been interesting and fun. I would rather give them MORE tools at their disposal to craft these environments for our game.Being a part of the lore staff, and caring about the lore when you really understand it can do this. It can create more opportunities for everyone, not just the admins in question. Because the admins are in a better position more than anyone to inject more lore into the average round.

As for this application, I have worked with Aboshehab upon several lore topics. I believe that coalf touched upon the same criticisms that I would raise, namely that the trope of your writing tends to lean towards solidarity, authority, and military service. While these are important, in the grand scheme of things, they are only a facet of a world. This is especially important now, as there is a universal effort by everyone on the lore team to better define mundane, day-to-day life, the little things that add up to a larger existence. In some cases, they can collectively be more important than the 'important' things. I believe that this theme in your writing is something you could depart from if you chose to, and that your addition to the lore team would not affect your overall performance as a writer or admin. +1

[Scheveningen]

i too, think its very idiotic to suggest that administrators should be limited from other roles because of your concerns that it centralizes too much "power" into individuals who gain those responsibilities.

which is funny because the moment someone becomes admin that's more than most could ever dream to earn, so. just had to get my very important opinion out there y'know

I don't see how Skull was being "rude" at worst he was being frank in addressing the issue. Facts don't care about your feelings.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

After conferring with Zundy, this application is being accepted. Welcome to the team!