A new Ninja Gamemode

[BurgerBB]

I strongly dislike solo antagonists, and others do too. If the antagonist is unrobust, goes afk, does chairrp, or has a shit gimmick, the entire round collapses and it's extended. I'm planning on doing a ninja rework, but I need feedback first before I do anything. My current plans are to make it so that 3 ninjas spawn, each with different strengths and weaknesses.

The tiger clan would specialize in combat. Powerful swords, ninja stars, crossbows, kung-fu, ect.

The spider clan would specialize in mobility. Teleportation, speed, stamina, z-level movement, ect

The snake clan would specialize in stealth. Invisibility, smoke bombs, disguises, knockout gas.

Each of the 3 ninjas will not be of the same strength of a regular ninja. The Ninjas can choose to work together, oppose each other, or pursue their own gimmicks.

The Ninja uplink will have to be removed, but the ninjas would get a fair choice of equipment relative to their profession, as well as any single item from any profession.

Emergency Power Generator - An emergency use power generator that gives 1000 power to the suits battery. Has a long cooldown - All Clans.

Chemical Injector - A chemical injector that allows the user to inject themselves with medical chemicals. - All Clans.

Power Sink - A module that sucks power out of powered items and into the users suit. - All Clans.

[NEW] Basic Suit Teleporter - A module that allows the user to teleport 3 meters in front. - All Clans.

[NEW] Uranium Katana - A typical carbon fiber katana with a uranium coating. - All Clans.

[NEW] Standard Matter Fabricator - A hardsuit matter fabricator that can produce sharp steel ninja stars used for throwing. - All Clans.

[REWORKED] Mounted Grenade Launcher = A shoulder mounted grenade launcher. It can be refilled with more grenades. - All Clans.

Stealth Field - A module that allows the user to go invisible. Consumes power when active. - Stealth Clan.

Basic EMAG Hand Module - A module that allows the user to apply an EMAG effect to the targeted item. Has limited charges. - Stealth Clan

[NEW] Sleep Gas Grenades - 5 smoke grenades filled with powerful sedatives with a 1 second fuse. - Stealth Clan

[NEW] Advanced Suit Teleporter - A module that allows the user to teleport to a precise location, 6 meters in any direction. - Mobility Clan

[NEW] Advanced EMAG Hand Module - A module that allows the user to apply an EMAG effect to the targeted item. Has unlimited charges. - Mobility Clan

[NEW] Flashbang Grenades - 5 flashbang grenades with a 1 second fuse. - Mobility Clan

Energy Net - An unlimited use net, if the user has enough power, that can be thrown at others causing them to be trapped. - Mobility Clan

Energy Blade and dart launcher - A module that can produce a powerful energy blade in the users hand. It can also shoot stun-darts. - Combat Clan

[NEW] Advanced Matter Fabricator - A hardsuit matter fabricator that can produce sharp steel and uranium ninja stars used for throwing. - Combat Clan

Combat Injector - A chemical injector that allows the user to inject themselves with combat chemicals. - Combat Clan

[NEW] EMP Grenades - 3 EMP grenades with a 3 second fuse. - Combat Clan

Active EMP Shielding - A very complicated module for a hardsuit that protects it to some degree from EMPs. - Combat Clan

Thoughts?

[Itanimulli]

I can dig it, as lomg as it gets ultrabalanced by admemes. I have no clue what unintended prospects may come from having three crazy neenjers on the station, but hey, multiple antags with differing mechanics each? Either setting eachother up, or working towards a common goal? No singular ninja that just steals ian and dissapears?

Not giving a +/-1 yet. Dunno how the admemes will implement it.

[Lonely Caravan]

I Always thought that the ninja gamemode always would concentrate their RP on one gamemode (most of the times, security), and if not, they would be PeaceRP, and people wouldn't find them very fun. If this gets changed, the ninja gamemode, in general, will be improved, I can imagine many and many cool gimmicks with these changes. I support this idea.

[BurgerBB]

The ground framework for the gamemode is done. I just need to balance most of it and test it.

The ninja equipment is instead purchased through a untamperable vending machine using credits. All the basic ninja modules are free, however the specialized ones do cost credits. Ninjas start out with 10,000 credits, and the modules range from 500-4000 credits depending on their usefulness. Obviously a lot of balancing is needed in the future, but it's 75% done.

Instead of being allowed to pick another module from another class, ninjas could possibly trade other modules with each other if they choose to. I think this will add a lot of depth to it because this could add a lot of potential conflict such as a deal going wrong or a relationship being made. Hopefully there will have to be some escalation of conflict rules being put in place, such as one of the ninjas not being a dick and killing a ninja just to have their modules.

[Aceofspades1228]

Just a random thought, perhaps have where the vending machine spawn for each clan be semi-random? So if you decide to just murder-bone another ninja for their gear, you at least have to tail them for a while back to their machine?

The issue with this entire thing though is if the ninja decides to rob a wealthy station-member, and ends up able to turn themselves into an unstoppable Bushido-following armory.

[BurgerBB]

Just a random thought, perhaps have where the vending machine spawn for each clan be semi-random? So if you decide to just murder-bone another ninja for their gear, you at least have to tail them for a while back to their machine?

The issue with this entire thing though is if the ninja decides to rob a wealthy station-member, and ends up able to turn themselves into an unstoppable Bushido-following armory.

 

The vending machines spawn on their ship. Now I don't fully understand ninja, but my impression is that you can only be on the ship once, then leave, and never come back. The initiation of trading will happen via hidden intercoms where you can choose to open communication with a specific ninja. The actual trading of gear will have to take part on the station.

[BurgerBB]

The WIP pull request is created here: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4348

[Kaed]

I would much rather prefer that you can pick the clan you belong to at the start, as opposed to it being assigned. There is no other antag in the game that starts out with a fixed number of powers and no access to the ability to pick which set they want. I frankly would like to see around where there are more than one spider clan for instance.

Don't pigeonhole people into specific roles by assigning them a purpose.

[BurgerBB]

Did a lot of work today on ninjas. Each type of ninja has their own preference, meaning that if you only want to be a stealth ninja, you will only get stealth ninja.

The gamemode itself is playable, now. A lot of useful antag equipment was added too.

[Kaed]

Did a lot of work today on ninjas. Each type of ninja has their own preference, meaning that if you only want to be a stealth ninja, you will only get stealth ninja.

The gamemode itself is playable, now. A lot of useful antag equipment was added too.

 

Wouldn't it be much less cluttered if you just let people pick their clan in game, instead of adding preferences for clan out of character, and insisting there be one of each per round? =/

I don't know what is with your steadfast insistence in static antag variant setup. Singular antag types (and ninjas remain a singular antagonist type, despite adding two more, because they are an outside individual with a plethora of powers you can choose from, rather than a regular crew member/external team with special tools and some form of loose shared goal) should not be set up to be so unmalleable for antagonist generation.

What if everyone who has readied up and has any ninja settings enabled only picked spider clan? Would the game start with only one ninja now, and how has that changed anything from how it was before? Would the game mode fail to start because insufficient players have the right antagonist settings?

Imagine if we created a 3 wizard round type, but there was always one spacial, one battle, and one cleric wizard. No one could be anything else, that was just what you got at round start, if you wanted something else or changed your mind, or forgot to edit your antagonist setting to a different wizard type, too bad.

[BurgerBB]

Did a lot of work today on ninjas. Each type of ninja has their own preference, meaning that if you only want to be a stealth ninja, you will only get stealth ninja.

The gamemode itself is playable, now. A lot of useful antag equipment was added too.

 

Wouldn't it be much less cluttered if you just let people pick their clan in game, instead of adding preferences for clan out of character, and insisting there be one of each per round? =/

I don't know what is with your steadfast insistence in static antag variant setup. Singular antag types (and ninjas remain a singular antagonist type, despite adding two more, because they are an outside individual with a plethora of powers you can choose from, rather than a regular crew member/external team with special tools and some form of loose shared goal) should not be set up to be so unmalleable for antagonist generation.

What if everyone who has readied up and has any ninja settings enabled only picked spider clan? Would the game start with only one ninja now, and how has that changed anything from how it was before? Would the game mode fail to start because insufficient players have the right antagonist settings?

Imagine if we created a 3 wizard round type, but there was always one spacial, one battle, and one cleric wizard. No one could be anything else, that was just what you got at round start, if you wanted something else or changed your mind, or forgot to edit your antagonist setting to a different wizard type, too bad.

 

The point is to have 3 ninjas with their own various strengths be a part of the round. If people picked their clan, then that would be significantly worse in terms of balance because it would mean possibly dealing with 3 very robust combat ninjas, or 3 very speedy mobility ninjas.

The round will fail to start if all three ninja types aren't chosen, and that will be highly unlikely unless it's at dead hour. If you don't want to be a combat ninja, then don't set combat ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a stealth ninja, then don't set a stealth ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a mobility ninja, then don't set mobility ninja as a preference.

[Kaed]

The point is to have 3 ninjas with their own various strengths be a part of the round. If people picked their clan, then that would be significantly worse in terms of balance because it would mean possibly dealing with 3 very robust combat ninjas, or 3 very speedy mobility ninjas.

The round will fail to start if all three ninja types aren't chosen, and that will be highly unlikely unless it's at dead hour. If you don't want to be a combat ninja, then don't set combat ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a stealth ninja, then don't set a stealth ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a mobility ninja, then don't set mobility ninja as a preference.

 

That's entirely speculatory balance assumptions, because none of this is playtested in live, and the same problem you mention in the first post of this thread applies to the entire game mode you have created: If one of the ninjas is bad or shitty, then they basically stop being in the round and it's extended. You've admittedly added two extra ninjas as a failsafe, and tried to curtail their powers by giving them specific strengths... but your argument falls apart if you consider what happens to the round's 'balance' if there are one or more of these 'shit ninjas'? Then you are basically going to be missing one of the clan's anyway. It's going to happen.

So let people pick their clans in-round. Create interesting dynamics where more than one of a particular clan can be in the game. Learn what combos create horrible imbalances, and correct them with patches.

[BurgerBB]

The point is to have 3 ninjas with their own various strengths be a part of the round. If people picked their clan, then that would be significantly worse in terms of balance because it would mean possibly dealing with 3 very robust combat ninjas, or 3 very speedy mobility ninjas.

The round will fail to start if all three ninja types aren't chosen, and that will be highly unlikely unless it's at dead hour. If you don't want to be a combat ninja, then don't set combat ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a stealth ninja, then don't set a stealth ninja as a preference. If you don't want to be a mobility ninja, then don't set mobility ninja as a preference.

 

That's entirely speculatory balance assumptions, because none of this is playtested in live, and the same problem you mention in the first post of this thread applies to the entire game mode you have created: If one of the ninjas is bad or shitty, then they basically stop being in the round and it's extended. You've admittedly added two extra ninjas as a failsafe, and tried to curtail their powers by giving them specific strengths... but your argument falls apart if you consider what happens to the round's 'balance' if there are one or more of these 'shit ninjas'? Then you are basically going to be missing one of the clan's anyway. It's going to happen.

So let people pick their clans in-round. Create interesting dynamics where more than one of a particular clan can be in the game. Learn what combos create horrible imbalances, and correct them with patches.

 

I've been balancing things for ages and it's better to have something that is underpowered, and then buff it over time, then have something that is overpowered and having to nerf it. People complain less when things are underpowered so it's easier for sanity.

If I ever claimed that 3 ninjas was equal to the strength of one ninja, then I am wrong. In the final product, I believe two of my ninjas have the strength of one of ninjas. If one of the ninjas is bad, then the round could still work because there are still two ninjas left who can take their gear. Ezpz.

If in the event that 3 ninjas somehow cannot carry the round, then I will tweak the gamemode to include a regular ninja as well.

[Kaed]

This argument is going in circles.

Fine, whatever. If it gets implemented and I don't like how it works after a month I'll just make a code push myself to give people in round ninja choices if you won't.

[Alberyk]

So, if this gamemode is being added, what will be of the regular ninja?

I would rather us just improve the regular ninja before just throwing more similar antags in hope they can do better than a single one.

[BurgerBB]

So, if this gamemode is being added, what will be of the regular ninja?

I would rather us just improve the regular ninja before just throwing more similar antags in hope they can do better than a single one.

 

The thing that was broken with regular ninja is that there is only one ninja to interact with the crew. This is fine with ~15 players but holy hell anything during normal hours is just silly especially how most people play ninja as a teleporting fartbag. There's nothing broken mechanics or balance wise. The problem is that there is only one of them.

This is an improvement of the ninja gamemode. The reason why this is a new gamemode instead of a direct replacement is because I want players to compare and contrast the changes between regular ninja and this version of ninja and give relevant feedback to further improve the gamemode.

[sonicgotnuked]

I would like to see multiple ninjas. Ninja without support is just security chasing them around when they express a little conflict.

[Faris]

Not sure where I stand with it. I don't mind this to be testing out as one of the mixed modes, not the standard ones. So having a minimum amount of players readied up.

I do not support this being a standard round type as it has a consistent force that doesn't seem to account to the population.

[BurgerBB]

There was an idea I had a while back. it would be 3 ninjas vs 1 regular ninja. The regular ninja would be able to recruit additional players, if desired.