Make Wizard Robes like chameleon suits.

[driecg36]

Title. By having wizards run around in brightly colored robes and pointy hats (that is, if they want to use their powerful spells), they usually don't get treated that seriously by the crew and typically are a bit lower rp than some of the other antags.

However, with this suggestion, wizard robes become chameleon suits with access to a wide variety of different, more exotic uniforms (like imperium monks, luchador masks, etc). This would give the wizard a wider range of visual customization so that their appearance can express what type of antag they are going for.

To prevent this from being used as a chameleon suit, this would be one use only and display the item as "Wizard's [insert Uniform]", and have the added description along the lines of "This [inset uniform] has a strange aura to it."

Of course, the original, colorful robes would still be an option for those that wanted to go more traditional wizard. It may also be worth considering not allowing crew uniforms into the pool to discourage peace-tag infiltration.

[AmoryBlaine]

Not for this, but I am for re-vamping the Wizard's look. They look very comical and out of place. I don't actually know what options they have for wear currently though.

[Itanimulli]

Magus.

[LanceLynxx]

It’s a fucking wizard

Unless you want to change wizard into something else and change the lore completely,, wizards will inevitably be out of place. Especially in a scifi setting in a science and mining research station. Imagine a wizard in Dead Space. Yeah.

Also luchador mask would be even more lrp than a wizard outfit IMO.

[MO_oNyMan]

It’s a fucking wizard

Unless you want to change wizard into something else and change the lore completely,, wizards will inevitably be out of place. Especially in a scifi setting in a science and mining research station. Imagine a wizard in Dead Space. Yeah.

what radical lore changes are you talking about? There's nothing in our current lore about the wizard federation and what it is apart from "they must be existing some place far away". Changing the wizard's attire will have zero impact on our lore

Antags are supposed to create interesting stories and interactions. And for that they need to have a certain amount of flexibility (that's why we don't have set antag goals i presume). The wizard concept by itself is outdated. It's not healthy practice to limit wizard antags with "you're the magic guy coming from a wizard federation" setup. Instead the only limit placed on wizard antags should ideally be "you're a guy with unexplained powers" letting people come up with stories and gimmicks based on it on their own, which would make it interesting for both antag players and crew.

So yeah, i don't think an obligation to wear goofy clothes at all times benefits the game mode. There are loads of types of wizards (ranging from Merlin-esque old-fashioned traditional wizards to mysterious strangers like in booth at the end). If people want to step away from generic wizard image and try something new and interesting - more power to them

+1 to the suggestion

[LanceLynxx]

what radical lore changes are you talking about? There's nothing in our current lore about the wizard federation and what it is apart from "they must be existing some place far away".

 

Um w0t

Changing the very original and nature of what a WIZARD is, is quite radical.

AFAIK, at least, there was never an adaptation of wizard specifically for aurora, so it keeps the same lore from the codebase we branched out of.

 

Changing the wizard's attire will have zero impact on our lore

 

Following quotations from the Wiki.

"The Wizard's Hood, Robes, and Sandals, along with their other variants, all act as magical amplifiers and boost the wizards skills. Certain spells can only be performed with them equipped. If you lose these, it can make your life much harder."

Looks like the wizard attire is pretty damn important.

 

It's not healthy practice to limit wizard antags with "you're the magic guy coming from a wizard federation" setup.

 

"Wizards are unique individuals who have access to powers that defy scientific principles. Most are part of the Space Wizard Federation"

 

So yeah, i don't think an obligation to wear goofy clothes at all times benefits the game mode. There are loads of types of wizards (ranging from Merlin-esque old-fashioned traditional wizards to mysterious strangers like in booth at the end). If people want to step away from generic wizard image and try something new and interesting - more power to them

 

At the end of the day it's still a wizard mode, whose lore is pulled straight from traditional wizard concepts. Only in spess instead of a fairytale land.

Unless you alter the lore, changing mechanics would create a strange situation in which we cannot explain the game-mode and antag without just saying "it's just a game"

[Scheveningen]

I think that if you are a wizard, you should be from the Wizard Federation. Full stop.

To say that it's limiting sounds more like a personal problem and not an accurate representation of what you can do as a wizard.

[Kaed]

I think that if you are a wizard, you should be from the Wizard Federation. Full stop.

To say that it's limiting sounds more like a personal problem and not an accurate representation of what you can do as a wizard.

 

I used to think that way too, but no admin in existence on this server is going to enforce that, because they have a hard-line standard that antags don't have a plot enforced. So you might as well support other ideas if someone decides to code them in, or at the very least not complain about them unless they're stupid and memey.

Like the Luchador mask, the very idea which makes me want to break something because I imagine someone coming into pretending want to wrestle everyone and speaking in ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME and I think I'm dying inside a little bit just thinking about it.

Don't.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The lore for wizard clothes is not that big of a deal. We can change it. Admins dont care about antag lore so like its a double layer of arbitrary. Op idea is good. They are very silly looking

[driecg36]

I included the luchadore mask as a joke and an homage to the luchadore wizard I saw once, it is by no means a necessity.

Though I think goofy may not necessarily be the worst thing imaginable, the luchadore stuff can easily be left out.

[MO_oNyMan]

Um w0t

Changing the very original and nature of what a WIZARD is, is quite radical.

the wizard mode is almost as old as ss13 itself. Changing the clothes of the antag does not affect its nature in the slightest

 

AFAIK, at least, there was never an adaptation of wizard specifically for aurora, so it keeps the same lore from the codebase we branched out of.

I very much hope that we don't patch the holes in our lore with the lore of servers we branch our code from. If it's really so than we shouldn't, the concept of it is plain bad.

 

Following quotations from the Wiki.

"The Wizard's Hood, Robes, and Sandals, along with their other variants, all act as magical amplifiers and boost the wizards skills. Certain spells can only be performed with them equipped. If you lose these, it can make your life much harder."

Looks like the wizard attire is pretty damn important.

The suggestion is not to remove the wizard's clothes but to let it change. If it's a wizard why wouldn't he be able to change the looks of his clothes.

 

"Wizards are unique individuals who have access to powers that defy scientific principles. Most are part of the Space Wizard Federation"

That's doesn't mean they should wear goofy clothes all the time

 

At the end of the day it's still a wizard mode, whose lore is pulled straight from traditional wizard concepts. Only in spess instead of a fairytale land.

Unless you alter the lore, changing mechanics would create a strange situation in which we cannot explain the game-mode and antag without just saying "it's just a game"

There is no lore on wizards. Noone knows they exist, noone ever met them, noone is familiar with their powers or how they get them, their lore doesn't get updated. Literally all we know about wizards is that it's a guy that can do stuff. Their quote on quote "lore" is non-existant and almost every single thing in it is explained by "well, he's a wizard so it's magic". I understand the sentiment over the throwing out the wizard's garb as it's iconic to the ss13 culture. But so was the clown. If you want to move forward and allow for better stories and interactions, giving wizards more flexibility in their gimmicks is the way to go

[Kaed]

I understand the sentiment over the throwing out the wizard's garb as it's iconic to the ss13 culture. But so was the clown. If you want to move forward and allow for better stories and interactions, giving wizards more flexibility in their gimmicks is the way to go

 

+1 million

[LanceLynxx]

Um w0t

Changing the very original and nature of what a WIZARD is, is quite radical.

the wizard mode is almost as old as ss13 itself. Changing the clothes of the antag does not affect its nature in the slightest

 

AFAIK, at least, there was never an adaptation of wizard specifically for aurora, so it keeps the same lore from the codebase we branched out of.

I very much hope that we don't patch the holes in our lore with the lore of servers we branch our code from. If it's really so than we shouldn't, the concept of it is plain bad.

 

Following quotations from the Wiki.

"The Wizard's Hood, Robes, and Sandals, along with their other variants, all act as magical amplifiers and boost the wizards skills. Certain spells can only be performed with them equipped. If you lose these, it can make your life much harder."

Looks like the wizard attire is pretty damn important.

The suggestion is not to remove the wizard's clothes but to let it change. If it's a wizard why wouldn't he be able to change the looks of his clothes.

 

"Wizards are unique individuals who have access to powers that defy scientific principles. Most are part of the Space Wizard Federation"

That's doesn't mean they should wear goofy clothes all the time

 

At the end of the day it's still a wizard mode, whose lore is pulled straight from traditional wizard concepts. Only in spess instead of a fairytale land.

Unless you alter the lore, changing mechanics would create a strange situation in which we cannot explain the game-mode and antag without just saying "it's just a game"

There is no lore on wizards. Noone knows they exist, noone ever met them, noone is familiar with their powers or how they get them, their lore doesn't get updated. Literally all we know about wizards is that it's a guy that can do stuff. Their quote on quote "lore" is non-existant and almost every single thing in it is explained by "well, he's a wizard so it's magic". I understand the sentiment over the throwing out the wizard's garb as it's iconic to the ss13 culture. But so was the clown. If you want to move forward and allow for better stories and interactions, giving wizards more flexibility in their gimmicks is the way to go

 

Im not against flexibility and such, i’m against changing key things that make a wizard a wizard and calling it a wizard model.

Tbh wizwoz is one of the worst antag modes because of the sheer amount of peaceantaging and only a single slot or two in a round. Eventually it just becomes extended, which I like, but i’m talking antaggery. But I digress.

My point is, if you’re gonna change things, then make it an entirely new mode, don’t alter key identifiers and call it wizard.

As to “patching lore holes with lore from our code branch”: Nanotrasen, races, jobs, aren’t they all derivative of the previous code? We ALREADY DO THAT. Otherwise we wouldn’t have mostly similar lore, modes, jobs, etc. sure, we have our own spin and changes, but it is still a derivative, in which lore that is unaltered is the same as the previous code.

And if wizard didnt have lore as you said, then why would we call it wizard and identify the clothes and apparel from the lore of medieval magical folklore and fairy tales? Wizard HAS a lore that everyone can pretty much understand the general idea. It just isn’t written.

[Saudus]

I understand the sentiment over the throwing out the wizard's garb as it's iconic to the ss13 culture. But so was the clown. If you want to move forward and allow for better stories and interactions, giving wizards more flexibility in their gimmicks is the way to go

 

+1

That said Wizard mode in general needs a rework. It and Ninja are just really weak game modes. My suggestion would be to, similar to the vampire and changeling game modes, have the antag be part of the regular crew as well. Multiple issues and also potential goodies with that route I know.

[Tailson]

I really do like the idea of having a "customisable wizard". Just how other antags are free to determine their own backstory and reasons for coming to the station (I've seen many different ninja antags), I find the relatively stringent backstory enforced on the wizard to be unusual.

Yes, there's a capacity for memery with customisable wizard clothes, but there's always been a huge amount of memery coming from wizards in the first place. In fact, "I AM A WIZARD" is basically ridiculous on its own, so there's not much anyone can do to make it any more unbelievable.

Still requiring the clothes to do spells and stuff, yeah, important, that's a mechanic, but changing clothes shouldn't be a huge problem. There's no lore in-universe that dictates what a wizard should look like or should even do. In regards to the Wizard Federation, there's nothing stopping them from wearing different clothes. Maybe if it's not possible to change clothing appearance once the wizwoz is on the station with a voidsuit-refitting-style wizard clothes closet, you set your clothing style and you run from there.

Out of every antag on our dear station, the Wizard fits in the least, lore-wise. Changing lore that is basically none-existent shouldn't pose that much of a threat to our overall universe lore.

Also, having a wizard masquerading as a regular street magician, tophat and all, sounds like it'd be fun.

EDIT: Wizwoz is also very prone to peace antagging. Perhaps because it's one of just a handful of ways a wizard can be played. New appearance might inspire some people to think up unusual and interesting angles to approach the antag from.

[driecg36]

Some of the more interesting wizards I've seen were ones that didn't go with the bog standard pointy hat and robes. The most interesting gimmick I saw, which sadly, had a bit of difficulty in the execution, was a wizard called "Death" with the lichdom spell that wore a blank mask, dark grey robes, and carried a scythe.

Do you think death would've been taken seriously by anyone had he come onto the station wearing a pointy red hat?

I just want to facilitate creative, original wizards with this suggestion, and I think visual flexibility is extremely important in conveying that and having it be taken seriously by the crew. This may be wishful thinking, but it could even help dissuade peace wizards if they can wear more serious clothes.

And still, the traditional garb would still be present just for the old-fashioned, or those that want a more traditional merlin-esque gimmick.

[MO_oNyMan]

As to “patching lore holes with lore from our code branch”: Nanotrasen, races, jobs, aren’t they all derivative of the previous code? We ALREADY DO THAT. Otherwise we wouldn’t have mostly similar lore, modes, jobs, etc. sure, we have our own spin and changes, but it is still a derivative, in which lore that is unaltered is the same as the previous code.

The premise is the same as the premise of most of other ss13 servers. The lore is different. Our universe is different from other universes, our species' lore is different from other servers' lore. Even such trivial and omnipresent things like ERT are reworked and tailored to suit our universe.

 

And if wizard didnt have lore as you said, then why would we call it wizard and identify the clothes and apparel from the lore of medieval magical folklore and fairy tales? Wizard HAS a lore that everyone can pretty much understand the general idea. It just isn’t written.

 

General idea of what the guy looks like =/= lore.

"Skrell don't like synthetics because their race was enslaved for about 2 centuries by a rogue AI which they themselves invented since they're an advanced race. The species as a whole are defined by that nowadays. You can read and learn about it on wiki." That's lore.

"This guy is a wizard just like medieval wizards and stuff. It's not written anywhere but you guys get the idea." That's not lore.

Why do we call it wizard? Because he has magical powers that can't be explained by science. That's pretty much it. The fact that one of the images of wizards that we have IRL includes wearing pointy hats and carrying staves does not automatically mean that wizards in any other fictional universe adopt that.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Wizsrds do not need to look like Gandalf.

[Azande]

so it keeps the same lore from the codebase we branched out of.

 

No, no it does not. We are not Bay or any other server and our lore does not have anything as heritage from them. Similar, perhaps - but not the same.

[Pacmandevil]

At this point you might as well rip out wizard entirely, and replace it with the technomancer shit from Polaris.

Wizards are inherently supposed to not fit in with crew. they're fucking wizards. that cast magic.

[driecg36]

At this point you might as well rip out wizard entirely, and replace it with the technomancer shit from Polaris.

Wizards are inherently supposed to not fit in with crew. they're fucking wizards. that cast magic.

 

Having more options, including the old wizard garb, is effectively ripping out wizard? I don't understand.

[Pacmandevil]

you're effectively ruining the theme of the gamemode. it'd be better to replace it with one that fit the theme of the server better, if that was the case.

it'd be like if cult could dress up as anything but a blood cult. it fucks the theme of the gamemode.

[driecg36]

If you want to do the old wizard theme, go for it. If you want to do literally anything else, of which there are a colossal amount of more interesting alternatives to basic wiz woz, then you're effectively rail roaded into either using weak spells, looking like a tool, or wasting spell slots on no garb requirement.

Unlike cult, which is at the end of the day, always a blood cult, wizard can be a lot of different things. Their magic can be explained by numerous different stories and gimmicks, so why can they only dress like a merlin-esque wizard with a pointy hat?