Rework Firing Pins

[sonicgotnuked]

Rework them, no seriously, they are fine existing but their accessibility needs to be changed due to the heavy restrictions it placed on antags alone. This does not effect scientists testing weapons nor does it effect security themselves running around with lawgivers one bit, instead, it just seems to be a solution to an issue that could be solved easily through admin intervention when scientists start powergaming like it used to work.

Firing pins since day one when the first PR got implemented was something that I was against with and it just seemed it got merged randomly without word. Silly me, I'm not supposed to have opinions! Today, I'll be referencing to the original suggestion that this wonderful idea came about in.

 

R&D's job isn't to be a gun factory. it's to test shit. this doesn't remove, or even hamper the "testing shit" part of the job.

 

Now I will agree to this point.. to an extent. One of the main things addressed was RnD turning into a gun factory... instead.. it still is. RnD can freely print lawgivers and all security is needed to do is throw a firing pin inside so the point in security's regards is still moot.

Antag regards, especially Rev, this is HIGHLY restricting. Science was one of the departments that actually offered a revolution a chance to fight the other side. I am not stating it is impossible, but when loyalist security is out gunned then you, it kind of renders science as a force to be reckoned with moot. Science SHOULD be a force reckoned with! Especially after new cargo requiring actually money to buy a single and expensive gun. Science already depends on cargo for minerals and it adds another hurdle giving antags less leeway when it comes to having gear.

Another issue I have is the fact that science only has one box of firing pins, and if scrubbers hate you that day, then it would be impossible to do gun research unless security allows you to borrow some which is sometimes not guaranteed.

Some more issues I have with firing pins, they have a chance to break when you remove them and the removal process itself requires you to sit around and wait, making it more running into a wall when you attempt to steal a firing pin.

[drakuba]

Shouldnt they be printable? Autoloathe or protoloathe if you will. I liked the idea about ss13 that you can build second station ingame, which is not possible on aurora as i recall because plenty of things cant be obtained. It makes me sad

[Arrow768]

Antag regards, especially Rev, this is HIGHLY restricting. Science was one of the departments that actually offered a revolution a chance to fight the other side. I am not stating it is impossible, but when loyalist security is out gunned then you, it kind of renders science as a force to be reckoned with moot. Science SHOULD be a force reckoned with! Especially after new cargo requiring actually money to buy a single and expensive gun. Science already depends on cargo for minerals and it adds another hurdle giving antags less leeway when it comes to having gear.

You can already order firing pins from cargo.

Yes, that requires money.

And yes, that requires cooperation from cargo.

So go out and recruit people for your cause.

Pool the money together then place a order and get cargo to ship it to the station when you are ready to go loud.

You can get assault shotguns this way.

Rev is a cooperative gamemode. Work with other people to achieve your goals.

 

Another issue I have is the fact that science only has one box of firing pins, and if scrubbers hate you that day, then it would be impossible to do gun research unless security allows you to borrow some which is sometimes not guaranteed.

Again, replacements can be ordered from cargo.

There is a departmental account that is filled with money that can be used to order firing pins.

[Arrow768]

Shouldnt they be printable? Autoloathe or protoloathe if you will. I liked the idea about ss13 that you can build second station ingame, which is not possible on aurora as i recall because plenty of things cant be obtained. It makes me sad

That is where cargo comes in.

Certain things might not be build-able on station, but need to be shipped in from the outside.

Firing pins are such a thing

[ben10083]

I see no reason to rework firing pins, order things from cargo for once, it is SO boring to be in cargo after warehouse is sorted because no one ever needs anything. Please start using cargo more, I beg of you.

[Coalf]

You can already order firing pins from cargo.

Yes, that requires money.

And yes, that requires cooperation from cargo.

So go out and recruit people for your cause.

Pool the money together then place a order and get cargo to ship it to the station when you are ready to go loud.

You can get assault shotguns this way.

Rev is a cooperative gamemode. Work with other people to achieve your goals.

What you just said undermines itself.

Why would I exactly order firing pins when as you said assault-shotguns are available? If you compare the two, the effort, time, malfunction chance and even if you have max level parts, low strenght, just makes Modular Guns absolutely worthless, not only on rev but to security who can just use their own weapons to a better effect.

On other other hand you have assault shotguns, the downside is that they're expensive and come in a locked crate. That's it, they're better, much MUCH stronger than anything on station, and never malfunction with the added bonus that ammo is nearly limitless as long as you have a hacked prolathe.

So modular guns right now are, pointless, I have not seen a modular gun used once outside of testing range and I play this game DAILY.

Second the "teamwork" thing seems to be completely biased to thinking science is the rev starting department, now imagine science ISN'T a rev department but instead a cargo tech/sec officer/med doctor is. Why would I recruit science? (excluding robotics)

They can't provide me with better weapons, none of the existing items in science are actually useful outside of nanopaste and modular guns which as we mentioned are weaker, breakable, time consuming to make etc etc.

On your second point. Why?

Again why would I order pins? If I order pins as a non-antag, well why am I ordering them? To hunt valids? I can't do that, it's against the rules and I already know security doesn't actually want these guns since they don't give me the pins, they'll just take the gun and put a pin in it at armory or get a lawgiver instead of a modular gun.

Maybe I AM an antag like traitor, ling or vampire? Well WHY would I get firing pins? The guns I can summon are way more powerful than anything I can make in science and if anything I could just again order an assault-shotgun.

And if I'm a rev? Well again, why am I ordering it? I can just get an assault-shotgun for a few shekels more which my co-revs will provide.

Firing pins were conceived in a time before modular weaposn and as of now have COMPLETELY negated modular weapons, instead giving way for cargo to print billions of Force Gloves, Energy Glaives, Shields, Plasma Cutters or just makeshift guns.

It was a lazy way to solve the "Gun Factory" problem, the issue isn't really that science COULD make weapons but that science COULD NOT make anything ELSE. Seriously how many useful items can you print in science that help different departments than science?

Machine upgrades take good 20 minutes, the single surgery tool is useless as it only saves about 2 seconds of operation and just gets surgeons confused and nanopaste is something people are eternally butthurt over.

And then you have nothing.

In the best result we add more stuff to science, something that is being worked on so I'm excited about that. But we are speaking of today and not tommorow so AT-LEAST allow science to print their own firing pins. I don't care if it's stupidly materially expensive or the research is on the level of Energy Glaives just give them a CHANCE to have fun.

[sonicgotnuked]

You can already order firing pins from cargo.

 

I can understand this, but the main issue is security and cargo will tell you to use the firing range, 9/10 refusing the plain scientist because there is simply no reason for science to have all access guns causing people to just assume you are an antag. Like Coalf mentioned, this is a lazy fix designed from a low RP server where these restrictions must be in place.

 

I see no reason to rework firing pins, order things from cargo for once, it is SO boring to be in cargo after warehouse is sorted because no one ever needs anything. Please start using cargo more, I beg of you.

I understand cargo may but science is ALREADY highly dependent upon cargo if they want access to branch away from tinkering with IE to trying to find the hidden chems, building better module guns, or simply printing better stuff. It is destructive to force science players and antags to rely souly on if there is a cargo technician who may or may not fell SSD in the warehouse when they wish to branch out of spending an hour building some device.

[Arrow768]

What you just said undermines itself.

Why would I exactly order firing pins when as you said assault-shotguns are available? If you compare the two, the effort, time, malfunction chance and even if you have max level parts, low strenght, just makes Modular Guns absolutely worthless, not only on rev but to security who can just use their own weapons to a better effect.

On other other hand you have assault shotguns, the downside is that they're expensive and come in a locked crate. That's it, they're better, much MUCH stronger than anything on station, and never malfunction with the added bonus that ammo is nearly limitless as long as you have a hacked prolathe.

So modular guns right now are, pointless, I have not seen a modular gun used once outside of testing range and I play this game DAILY.

Yes, that is indeed an issue.

But afaik assault shotguns were only meant as a temporary item so they will eventually be removed again.

You dont solve that problem by removing firing pins, but by increasing the reliability of these weapons.

Because a Officer will always choose the weapon that works over the one that might work or might not work.

 

Second the "teamwork" thing seems to be completely biased to thinking science is the rev starting department, now imagine science ISN'T a rev department but instead a cargo tech/sec officer/med doctor is. Why would I recruit science? (excluding robotics)

They can't provide me with better weapons, none of the existing items in science are actually useful outside of nanopaste and modular guns which as we mentioned are weaker, breakable, time consuming to make etc etc.

Because Science can provide you with other things that cargo can not:

Force Gloves, various hand-to-hand weapons, bags of holding, various grenades, ...

 

Firing pins were conceived in a time before modular weaposn and as of now have COMPLETELY negated modular weapons, instead giving way for cargo to print billions of Force Gloves, Energy Glaives, Shields, Plasma Cutters or just makeshift guns.

firing pins have been merged 7 days before the Modular weapons have been merged.

And cargo can not print force gloves, energy glaives, shields or plasma cutters

 

In the best result we add more stuff to science, something that is being worked on so I'm excited about that. But we are speaking of today and not tommorow so AT-LEAST allow science to print their own firing pins. I don't care if it's stupidly materially expensive or the research is on the level of Energy Glaives just give them a CHANCE to have fun.

In the upcoming update we are going to add firing pins that require a certain access level.

I could see these being added to the protolathe since then you dont have to rely on cargo, you can steal someones ID card who has access or get that access via other means

[sonicgotnuked]

[mention]Arrow768[/mention] , I can back up the ID access being printed. For now, can you make test range pins be printable? Seems like a decent solution.