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[Denied] Permbanned for acting as (head approved) militia "with an overpowered weapon"


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BYOND Key: Absynth

Total Ban Length: Perma

Banning staff member's Key: Scheveningen

Reason of Ban:

"Third case of powergaming with an overpowered weapon in a month. Long-standing behavior of powergaming and dodging character consequence by avoiding CCIAA action by refusing to testify and making new characters to dodge character-specific consequence."


Reason for Appeal: Faysal, the HoP, requested a militia formed during a heist round because security was completely dead/disabled. He gathered up some people in the armory and told us afterwards to head to the bridge, as the heisters were currently in the vault. We attempted to get into the elevator (I believe there was an armed janitor and a few other people), but it was blocked. Eventually the AI opened a door and I went down to look, spotting them teleporting out with a hand tele. The heisters ran into bridge and we chased them to the upstairs bridge, but they went EVA. ERT was called and I waited there for them, telling them about the space bikes I saw outside with my goggles, and they chased them and then retreated while I watched outside. I was hit by stray shots and had to go to medbay later when they retreated.


After that I followed the ERT around to watch for the heisters, and eventually Shit Went Down in R&D. There was a firefight and I unloaded on one with my thermal drill, and the ERT finished both that person and 2 others off.


Apparently this is enough to deserve a permaban despite:


a) the militia being allowed, by a head and admin, specifically to act as security and not to simply defend ourselves in our departments

b) having no other weapons besides a drill and KA

c) at no point did anyone including ERT or admins tell me to step aside

d) I have never been warned or punished for using a thermal drill before (I was actually told it was okay to use despite people's complaints)

e) I have never "avoided CCIA action" and haven't made any new characters in months - my last CCIA action I didn't even know about until after it was carried out because I rarely check forums

f) being afk and unable to defend myself when I was permabanned.

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I was one of the ERT members, the squid, and I did actually tell you to step aside several times. You ignored all of my warnings, you even accidentally hit me with a thermal lance because you pushed past me while I had a grenade launcher with frag grenades and aiming at the heister, but you pushed past me to thermal drill the heister.


While the militia WAS allowed, you pushed past me and another ERT member in a gygax to kill a heister. That's not very good conduct, especially when you almost ended up being shot death, by both me because I almost fired a frag grenade and the heister.

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I was one of the ERT members, the squid, and I did actually tell you to step aside several times. You ignored all of my warnings, you even accidentally hit me with a thermal lance because you pushed past me while I had a grenade launcher with frag grenades and aiming at the heister, but you pushed past me to thermal drill the heister.


While the militia WAS allowed, you pushed past me and another ERT member in a gygax to kill a heister. That's not very good conduct, especially when you almost ended up being shot death, by both me because I almost fired a frag grenade and the heister.

 

I definitely never hit any ERT with a thermal lance. You would have caught on fire, which didn't happen. I shot once through the R&D window with the door closed and once in the hallway, which mostly missed and hit the wall.


I also did step aside for the ERT and the Gygax who killed the antags. I never actually killed anyone.

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I was one of the ERT members, the squid, and I did actually tell you to step aside several times. You ignored all of my warnings, you even accidentally hit me with a thermal lance because you pushed past me while I had a grenade launcher with frag grenades and aiming at the heister, but you pushed past me to thermal drill the heister.


While the militia WAS allowed, you pushed past me and another ERT member in a gygax to kill a heister. That's not very good conduct, especially when you almost ended up being shot death, by both me because I almost fired a frag grenade and the heister.

 

I definitely never hit any ERT with a thermal lance. You would have caught on fire, which didn't happen. I shot once through the R&D window with the door closed and once in the hallway, which mostly missed and hit the wall.


I also did step aside for the ERT and the Gygax who killed the antags. I never actually killed anyone.

 

But I was set on fire. I was just on oxycodone at the time, which is why it didn't do much to me. I'm talking about the fight in R&D maintenance, where you killed Amalia.

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I was one of the ERT members, the squid, and I did actually tell you to step aside several times. You ignored all of my warnings, you even accidentally hit me with a thermal lance because you pushed past me while I had a grenade launcher with frag grenades and aiming at the heister, but you pushed past me to thermal drill the heister.


While the militia WAS allowed, you pushed past me and another ERT member in a gygax to kill a heister. That's not very good conduct, especially when you almost ended up being shot death, by both me because I almost fired a frag grenade and the heister.

 

I definitely never hit any ERT with a thermal lance. You would have caught on fire, which didn't happen. I shot once through the R&D window with the door closed and once in the hallway, which mostly missed and hit the wall.


I also did step aside for the ERT and the Gygax who killed the antags. I never actually killed anyone.

 

But I was set on fire. I was just on oxycodone at the time, which is why it didn't do much to me. I'm talking about the fight in R&D maintenance, where you killed Amalia.

 

Again, I did not kill Amalia. The ERT and the Gygax killed Amalia. I stepped aside to let them do their thing and chase the last heisters.

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Hey. I was the guy that bwoinked you when you were ahelped, but unfortunately, I crashed. This is what I saw.


There was a skirmish in the science hallway, where an ERT was killed. Things had moved down to the room below the RD office, when Faysal told the ERT to attack. Amalia runs into maintenance, and you give chase, shoving the trained soldiers aside. Firing your thermal lance, you do hit DataMatt, and he is set on fire. Then, you chase her into the maze, as she is shooting you! I would probably have thought it valid, if she wasn't shooting back, but you were getting shot when you attacked her. You then clicked on her with the thermal drill, it locked on, she died.


The way I see it, that is validhunting. You disregarded your own character's safety, chased a criminal whilst being shot at, killed the criminal with an improvised weapon, all whilst shoving past the trained and heavily armed and armoured soldiers to do so - and even hitting one.

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The round did last one hour without any interaction between the antags and the crew, because the heisters were stealing things like the spare. Anyway, I spotted them on the surface, from the fitness room while Faysal was using the pool, something he commonly does, then, to be sure of what I saw, I looked around the surface and warned security, telling them to keep an eye open for non-crew around. And then, the AI and myself spots the heisters breaking into the bridge. I escape from them, and then, when calling for security, I find out they are all either ssd or dead due to a slime outbreak, at this point, I would need to call an ert, but as a single head of staff that is not possible without help.


So, I make a call for people that can bear arms to head to the brig, so, we might protect ourselves until we can get help. Some people come, I arm them. I give Martonis, an engineering apprentice, an all access id so he can go to the ce's office and swipe for an ert. We head to the bridge, and it seems that the heisters are down at the vault. I get to coordinate with the engineering apprentice and we call an ert. At this point, Absynth's characters ask if she can go down, I tell if she is going down the vault, to do no engage the hostiles and just run if she sees troubles. She goes down and tell us they are escaping using a hand tele. Then, one of the raiders runs at the bridge entrance, and point his gun at me, to avoid a fight because the raiders were far better armed than me and my team, I open fire at a fire alarm, but I am still hit a by bullet that causes a broken chest and internal bleeding. At this point, I run away and head to medical, where I go under surgery and I am unable to coordinate anyone.


At some point, the ert comes, and seems that the miner went to the surface to fight them, take in mind I did not order her to chase the hostiles, because I was knocked out due to medical. Then, the emergency team comes, and takes control of the situation,while I tell people to just protect themselves and hold their departments. Later, robotics tell me that the gygax they made was ready, and I go to meet with the emergency team, to find they are being attacked by the raiders at research. At this point, the miner also runs into research, and I yell for security and the trooper to engage the hostiles that were retreating. Absynth runs with both security and the troopers at them, being hit by rifles bullets, but, keeps going into the maintenance after the hostiles.


At no point I told said milita to chase the hostiles, they were only armed because we had no way to defend ourselves due to the lack of security, and the first thing we did when we could was to call an emergency team.

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when Faysal told the ERT to attack

 

He did not tell the ERT to attack. He screamed "charge" repeatedly and "first one to die is a hero".

 

You then clicked on her with the thermal drill, it locked on, she died.

 

She continued running after I hit her with the drill (so obviously I did not kill her), and I moved aside to let the red ERT and Gygax chase her. I injured Amalia with it, I did not kill her. The ERT beat her to unconsciousness with a rifle and they shot her until she died.

 

You disregarded your own character's safety, chased a criminal whilst being shot at, killed the criminal with an improvised weapon, all whilst shoving past the trained and heavily armed and armoured soldiers to do so - and even hitting one.

 

I was hit by stray bullets, which I didn't even notice given the chaos. None of the ERT or the HoP told us to leave (more than just me were there, even roboticists were standing around). I did not shove past anyone, I moved aside to let them go through. The only shoving going on was because it was a small space and lots of people were there.


I should also point out that the militia was specifically disarmed after all the ERT were dead and the alert went to blue, and nobody mentioned we shouldn't be helping fight off the invaders.

 

take in mind I did not order her to chase the hostiles, because I was knocked out due to medical.

 

No, you told us to arm up and, rather than go back to our departments to defend them, to go where the heisters were (vault/bridge). What is this but explicitely going after the heisters?

 

while I tell people to just protect themselves and hold their departments.

 

I was never told to leave the area at any point when hostiles were around and neither were the other militia. I don't ever remember you telling anyone to stay in their departments.

 

the first thing we did when we could was to call an emergency team.

 

The first thing we did was wait at vault and try to make the elevator start working, presumably to go after the heisters, long before there was any ERT.


When ERT arrived later I directed them outside as I was surface bridge with a hardsuit; the others had to go back down due to venting and I spotted the space bikes outside. I had to go to medbay because I toggled my chestpiece and immediately got broken lungs.

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"Third case of powergaming with an overpowered weapon in a month. Long-standing behavior of powergaming and dodging character consequence by avoiding CCIAA action by refusing to testify and making new characters to dodge character-specific consequence."

 

Briefly weighing in here as one of the people who has dealt with Absynth's CCIA actions.


For clarity, 'refusing to testify' as an offender in an IR is not typically punishable. Characters have the option of not showing up to interviews. If they choose not to, they are treated in the harshest possible way during the evaluation of the facts that leads to discipline, and they are giving up whatever opportunity they had to speak in defense of themselves. It has not been enforced as a fault on the player's part in the past.


Specifically in regards to "making new characters to dodge character-specific consequence," the only evidence of this I am aware of is the re-purposing of Makenzie Gronko as a Shaft Miner after she was demoted from her position as an Atmospheric Technician, and Serena Johnson (the previous shaft miner) was brought up in a separate IR for behavior similar to Gronko's.

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I definitely never hit any ERT with a thermal lance. You would have caught on fire, which didn't happen. I shot once through the R&D window with the door closed and once in the hallway, which mostly missed and hit the wall.


I also did step aside for the ERT and the Gygax who killed the antags. I never actually killed anyone.

 

But I was set on fire. I was just on oxycodone at the time, which is why it didn't do much to me. I'm talking about the fight in R&D maintenance, where you killed Amalia.

 

Again, I did not kill Amalia. The ERT and the Gygax killed Amalia. I stepped aside to let them do their thing and chase the last heisters.

 

You shot Amalia 2-3 times with your thermal lance, she was in crit and it took 3 melee hits from my rifle to kill her. You practically killed her at that point, the ERT in the gygax didn't touch Amalia before she died.


You stepped aside after putting Amalia in crit, that's when you stepped aside, not when you were told to 3-4 times by me at the entrance of R&D maint. You pushed past me with a thermal drill literally as I was about to fire my grenade launcher, you could've gotten us both killed with your actions. You also didn't mind the antags shooting you, or the risk of that happening, considering you went EVA on the surface bridge despite there being armed intruders, and you did know that.

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Is "could've gotten someone killed" worthy of a server permaban? I agree my actions could have been better in general during that round, but I did not get anyone killed (YOU killed Amalia), and my actions were justified by the militia set up by the HoP. The only times I was hit by bullets was from stray shots meant for other people, and I didn't even notice until later. I was not the only one fighting the heisters, I was the only one punished purely because I used a thermal drill. Not for valid hunting.

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I was the lizard raider.


Firstly, you were obviously hunting down antags with a thermal drill from when you decided to fight on the surface and be infront of the fight with ERT. You should've stayed back, but instead you went offensive and used a over powered weapon to attack us. I saw you helping on the surface as well. I also took the time to check your combat skills, and behold is every engineering skill set to trained while you have zero combat skill. The HoP formed the milita for defense, not for hunting antags.


It doesn't matter of you didn't kill the antag, instead you placed the antag in crit to make them extremely easy to kill.

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I was the lizard raider.


Firstly, you were obviously hunting down antags with a thermal drill from when you decided to fight on the surface and be infront of the fight with ERT. You should've stayed back, but instead you went offensive and used a over powered weapon to attack us. I saw you helping on the surface as well. I also took the time to check your combat skills, and behold is every engineering skill set to trained while you have zero combat skill. The HoP formed the milita for defense, not for hunting antags.


It doesn't matter of you didn't kill the antag, instead you placed the antag in crit to make them extremely easy to kill.

 

I only ever attacked anyone in the south of R&D, I did not attack anyone on the surface or at the vault. On the surface I went out to see what was happening, got hit by a stray bullet, and retreated. Did I ever attack you? No. Did I use any firearms or melee weapons? No, I used a tool. And as I mentioned, the HoP by his own actions made it clear that it was not just for defense, because he told us to move in (at the vault) when antags were clearly present. At no time was I told to hold back or stay in my own department. I was on the front lines, yes, and was told to charge in by the HoP.


I also take issue with the ERT saying I shot them, because at no time was the Datamatt's red ERT ever on fire. The thermal drill sets people on fire.

 

All of these replies were certainly not what Absynth informed me was the absolute 100% truth. Is it Abby that is right and I am wrong, once again?

 

Check the logs and you will see that my points are valid. I was justified in front-lining due to the HoP using us as a security force. If we weren't intended to attack the heisters he wouldn't have screamed at everyone to charge in, he wouldn't have had us investigate the vault while the heisters were known to be there; he could have said at any time to remain in your departments and he did not. They even knew I had a thermal drill and armor and nobody said anything.

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I also take issue with the ERT saying I shot them, because at no time was the Datamatt's red ERT ever on fire. The thermal drill sets people on fire.

 

I can tell you now, for a fact, that I saw, with my own eyes, a member of the ERT on fire, and I saw someone mention the on-fire ERT in deadchat. You may not have seen it, but it did, quite definitely, happen.

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Ask Alberyk if he screamed "charge" and "the first one to die is a hero" during the fight in R&D. He screamed them repeatedly. Not to ERT, to everyone.

 

That did happen, howevet security and the ery were there as well, and said orders were given to them. I never told any miner to run at the hostiles, if we were alone, thr situation would not be the same.

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Ask Alberyk if he screamed "charge" and "the first one to die is a hero" during the fight in R&D. He screamed them repeatedly. Not to ERT, to everyone.

 

That did happen, howevet security and the ery were there as well, and said orders were given to them. I never told any miner to run at the hostiles, if we were alone, thr situation would not be the same.

 

Explain to me how the orders were given to them specifically and not to the militia who were also present.

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No, I said it was valid for an antagonist to be using for pretty much any reason at all in the context I gave you. You took this as an opportunity to hunt antagonists by yourself with little to no combat skill to be noted of. While regrettable that I had to ban you because you decided to be AFK at decidedly one of the worst opportunities to be doing so, I don't see any merit in actually unbanning you.

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No, I said it was valid for an antagonist to be using for pretty much any reason at all in the context I gave you. You took this as an opportunity to hunt antagonists by yourself with little to no combat skill to be noted of. While regrettable that I had to ban you because you decided to be AFK at decidedly one of the worst opportunities to be doing so, I don't see any merit in actually unbanning you.

 

Why does it take combat skill to use a mining tool?


Why does my ban mention nothing about hunting antagonists? Are you just going to ignore the fact that I the HoP gave us permission to do so?


In an unban request am I supposed to list out the reasons why I "deserve" to continue playing rather than the facts of the incident? Why should a decision like this be about your opinion of me rather than the facts?


There's a lot of questions here still unanswered.

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..validhunting is a form of powergaming, powergaming being a broad definition of your playstyle which generally does not provide particular benefit to the server atmosphere we attempt to nurture and uphold.


The HoP gave you permission to defend yourself in the event your life was threatened. According to multiple testimonies here, you did more than just that and willfully sought out opportunities to engage antagonists.


It takes combat skill to use a mining tool when it's repurposed as a weapon, as it was used. When it's displayed that your character has the discipline and confidence to repurpose a focused mining laser as a weapon to use against humanoid beings rather than as a rockcrusher, and there's no character skills to suggest this is justified, there's a problem.


Being able to play on the server stops being a right when you repeatedly toe the line of acceptability when it comes to conflict escalation and break character rules that posit proper risk assessment and a sense of self-preservation are required when roleplaying in-character.


This isn't really what I believe you've done wrong, it is what I know you've done wrong because our ruleset both in written nature and nature in spirit greatly discourage this kind of conduct on our server. If you think otherwise, that is unfortunate but not unexpected. If you can't deal, there are other servers you can play on that may be more tuned to your methods of play.

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..validhunting is a form of powergaming,

 

What? No it's not. They are two totally different things. I shouldn't have to explain to you what those terms mean.


Gronko enjoys getting into fights. It's completely within reason that she would join a militia and not be afraid of a few stray bullets (which I retreated from at the times I realized I'd been shot). Ask anyone who's worked with her. Mining is dangerous.

 

The HoP gave you permission to defend yourself in the event your life was threatened.

 

The HoP himself couldn't give any example of this being true, why do you think it is? Have you checked the logs to see if it was accurate, or do you just believe it?

 

It takes combat skill to use a mining tool when it's repurposed as a weapon, as it was used.

 

Who decided that? Where are the rules written down for what's a "combat skill" and what's not? Did the armed janitor have combat skills? It's not even a gun you hold, it's a mining drill that you point at things you want to drill. Literally the only reason anyone complained at any time during this round was because I used the drill, not because I joined and acted in the militia. Correct?

 

Being able to play on the server stops being a right when you repeatedly toe the line of acceptability

 

Toeing the line of acceptability implicitely states that I am within acceptability. If an admin-played character is screaming at people to charge - and not specifying anyone - and I don't charge, am I not breaking the rules by failing to follow an order? If I didn't pass the line of acceptability what right do you have to punish me?

 

This isn't really what I believe you've done wrong, it is what I know you've done wrong because our ruleset both in written nature and nature in spirit greatly discourage this kind of conduct on our server.

 

So you immediately believe I'm guilty of breaking rules because rules exist? What? How does this make any sense at all? You're only listening to evidence that agrees with you and discounting the fact that we were given permission to fight the antags and screamed at to charge in.

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