AmoryBlaine

The left samples will be the finalized version.

I do not understand how you can read the initial post, and come away from this as being a shooting over insults and idea of being detained. It was specifically the context to the detainment. Sonic has attempted to decontextualize what happened, and given you've already done the exact same thing, I have no doubt that this is already over. You can close this.

This fact doesn't change that at the time, it was most reasonable to view the pilot as separate from the squad and holding a higher rank.

With clarification from the TCFL lore people, the Pilot is on par with the squad in rank, so this will need to be clarified by the wiki page in the future as this is in direct contrast with most instances of pilots in military organizations. The Prefect is also in charge of everyone that spawns. So rewording their role on the wiki would be a good idea too.

You are oversimplifying the situation here in order to justify banning me. Reasonable and sane individuals do not attempt to detain persons after stealing a shuttle. Reasonable and sane individuals do not allow persons who have done the latter to detain them. There was no reason for my pilot to assume the Prefect was anything but untrustworthy, and given the squads compliance with them, it was within reason to escape. Coincidentally, the person without someone else or a wall behind them, was the person shot- who also had the least armor (composite plating, rather than a hardsuit) of those present-, which- had they fallen from the disarm or shots- would have opened a way to walk through.

To state again, this is the only line on the wiki which outlines what the Prefect is. As you become more experienced you may well get a chance to be a squad leader, known as a Prefect (Pfct. [name]). They are squad leaders. It is unreasonable to assume that the shuttle and shuttle pilot are within, even more so below, the Squad and the Squad Leader. This is something you recognize in having talked to the Prefect about stealing the shuttle.

It does not make sense to say rank does not matter, when you are saying that rank does matter The Prefect is described on the wiki as a squad leader. Not, the leader of the group. Your use of the word group is very undefined and vague, where as squad is clear. If the pilot outranked the Prefect, which he most likely does, given there's no current lore on their existence, and the general consensus on pilots in military organizations are that they're commissioned Officers- he cannot then order his squad to 'brig' them. Given you recognize in your example, that a Captain can only be arrested when there is valid reason to detain them-which is only reasonably by an order from Central- that carries over to this situation, wherein it is clear that a detainment is not valid given the aforementioned theft, and attempt and illegitimate detainment of an officer. And again, as you can see, I shot one person. I was unable to push past them all, given there was no room to move, and I was being handcuffed. And again, as you can see, I shot one person. Given the justifications to assume the Prefect was entirely out of line, it is unreasonable to allow yourself to be illegitimately detained by them. If a commissioned Officer is talking shit to your face, you don't go "Brig them" to your squad, and expect it to go well after you've stolen a shuttle. Even more specifically their shuttle. The OOC outcome does not change the IC situation which was the theft of a shuttle, and attempt to illegitimately detain someone. I have no problem with how the players acted here, given they were guessing based off of how the NT-ERT operates, which is the Team leader leading everyone present, but also does not have a specific pilot rank. So they assumed based on gameplay similarities that the TCFL and ERT are the same in regards to character rank and title makeup, with there being one person in charge of everyone. Which is, by measure of the wiki, a wrong understanding- but at the same time the wiki doesn't even recognize the existance of pilots.

As you become more experienced you may well get a chance to be a Squad Leader, known as a Prefect. So, by this measure, if we were to apply the role of Prefect to standing armies today, they are most likely ranked below a pilot, as the standard squad leader is a staff sergeant.

BYOND Key:AmoryBlaine Staff BYOND Key:SonicGotNuked Game ID: b4K-cZ7c Reason for complaint: Unjust banning. There exists zero lore, on the TCFL pilot. The wiki does not even mention them. This in mind, we can make the assumption, that with the lack of any lore on them, pilots are officers, as is typical for nearly every military. Now, because there is zero lore on them, it is not possible to place them into the hierarchy of rank in regards to Prefects. With that in mind, we can assume they are of equal or near equal rank, with the Prefect commanding his squad of regulars and volunteers, and the Pilot commanding his/her shuttle. The round in question had the Prefect, commandeer the shuttle with no forewarning, no acknowledgement of apprehension, and no communication with my pilot. My pilot had, as not all the squad were on the shuttle yet, asked whether the team would want the mech aboard. After asking this he climbed into the mech. One person, a volunteer, suggested there was not time for this, a moment before my pilot entered the mech. Traveling between the roughly 8 tiles between the shuttle and the mech, the doors closed as the Prefect took control. Again- he did not give out any call that they were taking off, nor acknowledgement that he was commandeering the shuttle. Even when my pilot questioned them over the radio for the identity of who launched the shuttle, the Prefect remained silent. It was on the word of a volunteer that the Prefect was made known to have sent the shuttle. After, my pilot used a pod to board the station- with still zero communication from the Prefect- he remained with the team as they secured the evac shuttle, and then moved to the bridge to link with the Prefect. Eventually they finally aknowledge someone else on comms, and my pilot yells at them and tells them they'll be brigged. My pilot once running into them starts trying to get them to remove their suit, at which point they order their squad to 'brig' the pilot. This makes zero sense contextually, as the pilot outranks all of them save maybe the Prefect, and even so there is no brig, nor capacity for the team to brig the pilot. That is something handled by the Sentinels, after the mission, with little to actually justify the attempt as up until the squad attempting to 'brig' the pilot, there was no escalation of force made by the pilot. It was infact the team, as they pulled out their batons and handcuffs, and in response the first to attempt to put them on, was shot at. [If this were a more cinematic game, I would have attempted to aim at them at them, but given the fact they already had their batons out while I stood there without a gun in hand, there wasn't much of a chance that I'd actually be allowed to RP holding them at gun point. Plus cuffs standing still would have had the cuffs hgo on even if I did hold them at gunpoint, as I tried to talk.] So, given the Prefect has stolen a shuttle, refused to communicate with the pilot, and attempted to order an illegitimate attempt to 'brig' the my pilot, he draws and fires on the person attempting to handcuff him. At this time, all of the persons present were either in full hardsuits or composite armor, and carrying their weapons openly or pulling out their batons in response to the order by the prefect. I shot one person- the one attempting to handcuff me. Pilot was handcuffed, and this was all fine. I have no issue with how it played out. My only gripe is the fact we have no set lore on the role, which is what allowed for this situation to take place, as with lore it'd make it more clear as to the standing of the Prefect in relation to the Pilot, and vice-versa. Is it wrong to shoot your people on your side? Yes, but that does not factor in the context of the situation, which was that the team had effectively stolen a shuttle and were attempting an illegitimate 'brigging' of the pilot officer. Mind you, again, that the pilot has access to a blaster pistol- and a knife and crowbar which I had to get myself- and that everyone present was in composite armor or hardsuits. Should the pilot not have fired? Yes, it would have served him much better not to firing on them, since stealing a shuttle and trying to brig the pilot of the stolen shuttle are probably not going to reflect well on those involved- but the pilot was angry, and untrusting of the Prefect as no attempt was made to communicate with the pilot, which justifies that response when compliance means losing autonomy to someone who's done everything to make you believe they cannot be trusted. It makes whole sense that my pilot would attempt to stop the illegitimate "brigging" attempted by the Prefect who had also stolen the shuttle, and been non-cooperative over comms. What I want out of this complaint is, the ban lifted, given the actions carried out were all properly escalated and had reason for them to take place, and that we actually write lore for the pilots. Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks:

So apparently this is already in, ty. Someone close this please.

Yeah, back when we had our's it was never used outside of people hiding in them.

Well, that's why I said there's the option of just having them face to face. I've done that with a Catholic priest IRL- a few times, actually. There's no need to add something that's associated with Catholicism, Christianity, in particular.

If it's worked on fast, I don't see a problem with it's removal. If this is gonna be a few months, or even a year or something- then yeah, just remove it from secret. Though, I think it's important to note that this affects a few other round types IIRC. The traitor and ling type, the cult and ling, or whatever- so we should probably make sure those are still good to go without lings.

A confessional partially forces a set belief system on to the chapel. Confessionals don't need to be in secret, you can do them face to face.

Miners have access to off-grey overalls, perhaps Cargo would like them too. They're just coveralls, after all.

I agree there. Rev works well when there's other stuff going on to justify it. But- honestly, I'd just prefer more leeway with self-antags. Rev as a gamemode is very- not good, because it encourages people to be "terrorists" in the most general sense because of "things". It's the little symbol you get when you become Rev that reminds people they're antags and have more leeway, which allows them to do stupid things. And given Rev is pretty dicey with lots of shit going on, it's hard to handle- plus more antags. It just gets messy in a not fun way.

You're essentially taking the original design, and ditching it in favour of your old G11 sprite. I'm not sure why you don't just make a seperate gun.

It was Rev but there was automated announcements that sorta pushed things in a certain direction. Like "we're firing all of X." or shit like that. We could probably set it to select based off who is in the round or something. Like since the message would be in the round it could look at the manifest and then base it off departments, races, sex, ect, rather than pure RNG.

With the removal of Vox from gameplay goes the stake gun. Perhaps we could add an industrial rivet gun to replace the stake gun. A common weapon among raiders, maybe have one or two in engineering- work in a way they actual serve a function in construction, ect. Just spitballing here, feel free to contribute.

Out of circulation, hopefully someone reworks it into something more unique than a sibling to vampire.

This is still being worked on.

So we're in agreement that they can live on beside each other, with the removal of a single difference between the two. Hardly carbon copies.

Nope, though it depends.Usually the cup though.

So there's no other ideas for it?

I am asking, what other additions are being made. Because the only additional PR, does not sate what I want, which is a revert- What half of the voters wanted.