BurgerBB

Right. In order for a round to be voted to end, 2/3rds of the people want the vote to end. Quite frankly this is one of the dumbest things on the server and I don't see how this is fair to players. You're practically pandering to a literal minority of players who want the round to continue. If a majority of people want the round to end, and a vote is given and tallied, then the round should end full stop. I've been told countless times that rounds are designed to be 2 hours long, which is why the vote limit is at 2 hours, but with that present, what justifies 2/3rds majority vote? Are rounds meant to be 3 hours long, when the 50/50 rule applies? So far I've yet to see a convincing argument supporting the inclusion of a 2/3rds majority rule, other than "It's an HRP server, let people roleplay!", but imagine a situation where 1/3rd + 1 of the players are on a murderbone spree, and the HRP players into RP want to finish the round? Would it be fair for the vote to say "Yeah no even though the round should end, I say no because your vote doesn't matter as much as the other guy."

This is probably asking too much but I would very much like to see the current staff be treated with respect at least. I mean I'm a lost cause and what's done to me was done, but it really depresses me that this is an ongoing issue where players or sometimes staff members insult or belittle other staff members constantly without repercussions.

Actually this is false. One of the primary reasons why I resigned as a developer is because I did not enjoy working for people who treated me like trash. This whole situation, as well as the response to it, is a contributing factor as to why I think Aurora is a toxic environment to work in.

I find it a little disappointing that the focus on what went wrong in the complaint was not that it was an unfair punishment but that it was just an ineffective punishment because it lead to people bothering Garnacus. His response, and your response, wasn't "Yeah that deal was unfair." but "That deal was just a waste of our time." The impression I'm getting is that neither you, Garnacus, nor Skull really care about the deal being fair or unfair and that's what matters to me here. You could implement all the policy in the world and have the ability to have microsecond response times, but that won't matter in the end if there are serious issues with how you keep track of problematic users. What I mean by that is what I'm seeing from the administration team is not the correction of bad behavior, but postponing of bad behavior. So many times other users insult or berate others in OOC, Discord, on the forums, and the usual action is just muting OOC, applying warnings that expire after a month, or telling them to take it somewhere else. The staff aren't babysitters, but I think there is a point where you need to take a step back and realise "Okay there is an issue here that exists for some reason and has existed for I don't even remember how long, how come this hasn't been solved yet?" History is almost always ignored outside in game when dealing with someone unless it's done by an automatic system, and the automatic system in question is programmed to forget about warnings after a short period of time. For example, I've had this conversation before with one of you where I stated "Was I like this before I joined, or before this whole situation with Shev started?" and the response was "No." I then asked "Was Shev always like this before I joined, or before this whole situation with him started?" and the response was "Yes." Despite all this, we were given equal punishment. To be honest, I'd say it wasn't really equal punishment because at the time, I was arguably effective more by a forum ban considering the fact that I was a contributor who relied on the forums and Shev had several other platforms to voice his dislike of me. I'm going to sound like an absolute fucking dick here but I need this to prove a point because I feel that I need to be strong in order to get the message that history is ignored when dealing with situations: You currently have 1/4th of lore team fighting with a developer. Everyone involved has a history; they've been at each other's throats for like 6 months. One of them is considering resigning. How does this issue still exist?

The Space Carp design should not be changed. I'm fine with changing the sprite to be better, but the proposed sprite fundamentally changes what a space carp looks like. It's an iconic design that doesn't need to be changed.

Me telling you not to take anything seriously in lowercase was all lowercase. But no really you shouldn't take anything I say seriously on reddit.

never take anything i say seriously if i type it in all lowercase, especially on reddit Further down the thread you can see me defending it, and you can also see me defending it on the forums. My posts on reddit should not reflect my opinion on anything. I'm not asking Lord Fowl to be held to a different standard. I don't know where you got that from so you're going to have to clarify.

Since I was mentioned in this thread I am legally required to respond. I've interacted with Lord Fowl many times. His only issue is that his jokes are pretty mean but let's be entirely honest; it's absolutely nothing compared to the stupid drama that the Lore Team and some of the players have constantly exhibited. Armory was clearly trying to provoke Lord Fowl. He was constantly complaining in discord in a rude, unconstructive way. Many other players, including staff members, were doing the same thing. Lord Fowl responded by shitposting him, and instead of everyone being a reasonable and going "Yeah that's the response Armory should get." everyone is losing their mind and complaining about Lord Fowl. The fact that everyone are posting screenshots with JUST LordFowl's jokes and without ANY prior context should be the smoking gun in this case that Jackboot is not acting in good faith. Also the Nanako comparisons. Nanako was a racist who caused several issues including throwing serious bigoted insults at other staff members. If a dev so much as sneezes anymore, they're compared to Nanako and it's honestly really degrading. Anyone who goes "They're just like Nanako" and then then argues for unity via "correcting their behavior" then they're not acting in good faith. And for generally everyone else, if you look at all of Lord Fowl's PRs, notice the sheer amount of work he's put in, and go "Obviously he's trying to ruin the server" or "Obviously he's trying to undermine the lore team." then good lord you're not acting in good faith. I don't mean to be an enlightened centrist but there are problems on both sides, but I genuinely believe that most of the problem lies on the people who shit on Lord Fowl. for no real reason. Shit on him for the right reasons, get mad when he calls people autistic or retarded, but this is just stupid. It really depresses me to see how far people will go just to remove someone from the community.

Politics is never a linear trend. It goes up and down depending on the current people in charge. In the United States, it's been a jagged line, in places like Russia and China, it's downhill in human rights. Last time I checked, Sol Common mostly consists of Mandarin. It's well established in mechanics and in lore that corporations pretty much have the same power as government entities due to lobbying and other memes. In law, it is illegal to put someone to the death however it's completely legal to make them a robotic slave to serve a corporation. It's legal for a corporation to imprison people if they break a government's laws. It's legal for corporations to pay species less credits than their human counterparts. It's legal to use mind control to prevent your employees from going against your company. But for some fucking reason there is uproar over a gender pay gap because it's too political.

Because there is no lore to say otherwise, and most people here either don't know how to play proper racists/sexists or are too scared to. Jackboot even chimed in and said that in lore men are equal to women in pay. Look at how many "Lesbian" Unathi there are, including Marwani's character. Out of all the Unathi I encountered, only one actually displayed sexism. All unathi players are filled with nice guys and I hate it. The only time I get occasional racism/sexism is when I play diona, and it's usually just calling me a cool tree guy. I can't believe I'm saying this put people are only capable of microaggressions and it's hilarious and sad at the same time.

Even if you don't agree that the gender wage gap exists, having one in a Ultra-Capitalist Universe would be interesting and create conflict. The lore is seriously lacking any conflict that would make sense in this universe. Everyone acts so liberal and it's irritating.

I never said calling furries pedophiles was justified, I even said it was a bad move multiple times in this thread and in discord PMs. The only reason why I brought up the kill yourself remarks because "Oh if me calling furries pedophiles in jest offended people just wait until you see this." Also I retract my statement about you thinking that they told me to kill myself because of the pedophile remarks. I could've sworn a moderator or staff said something like that and I took note of it as evidence that no one bothers to look into situations but it seems I was wrong. Vagueness of rules causes situations where Skull can say "Oh I thought they were just shitposting." which he quite literally did in this situation, as seen here. An admin can choose to bring up the don't be a dick rule at a whim as "Don't be a dick" is a catch-all for bad behavior when the mod or admin in question looking at the situation wants it to be. If the "don't be a dick" was actually enforced as it is on me, then several members of this chat, including admins and mods, wouldn't be here. I believe the point where shitposting or criticism becomes enforceable under the "Don't be a dick." rule is if someone complains hard enough. Vague rules waste time and cause issues. Making a clear outline on what is considered unacceptable behavior by Aurora standards prevents issues from happening and gives fair and equal treatment to all. Giving examples of unacceptable behavior will set precedents that members and staff can refer to when dealing with situations. Currently, this isn't the case because usually only the victim is informed that someone was punished, and sometimes that isn't even satisfactory because it's usually the meme response of "They were talked to." Just spending at most an hour of your day to think up of examples of bad behavior to post with the rules would go a long way. I also encourage you to do it within your staff chat to also prove the point that admins have differing opinions on what is considered breaking the "Don't be a dick" rule. I'm asking for a public record list on the forums. A log of every ban or warning on the server and the forums so that users know which behavior is actually unacceptable. If people knew what was actually against the rules, then actual troublemakers would be reported more. This would also help with establishing consistency so that in a case where someone is warned for using homophobic slurs, people can refer to this when someone else is using homophobic slurs in the case where the admin or mod says "homophobic slurs are not really against the rules."

Except what you are saying is not correct. I'm not going to agree with something you said if the things you said have flaws in it that make it absolutely unagreeable, in this instance saying that garnacus did was justified. At this point I don't care that you think I'm dwelling on it or not and mentioning this will not change the fact that I felt that your usage of words was incorrect and still incorrect. And I think you overly estimate the audience of that chatroom as it contained other users who could not give a shit about aurora. I also feel that you're over-exaggerating the consequences of what happened, as I think I believe that even in the complaint against me, the private chat stuff was deemed irrelevant and ignored considering the mediums that Schev used to do the same thing to me. I'm not saying that I was right in using that place to vent, but I'm asking you to at least attempt to understand why I used that chat to vent. It seems I was wrong on the timing but the point is that I left the chat because I wanted to put this matter behind me. I specifically remember leaving that chat because being there was causing issues in the situation. I could've easily stayed and continued venting about him, because it wasn't against the deal since it did not take place on the forums, but I didn't because I chose to be an adult. If you wish to submit a player complaint on my behavior regarding venting in that chatroom, I would be happy to do it there. I feel as if this thread is being derailed and would be better without this very likely to be endless argument. You said that you had nothing more to say on the matter a few posts back, so I will be doing you a favor end ending it myself by not responding to any more of your posts.

I have been reporting bad behavior in OOC and discord and I'm usually being told it does not break the rules. I've reported people in OOC going above and beyond just giving criticism and the most I usually get is "They were talked to." yet it still continues, and I ahelp again when it happens and I get "Oh they didn't break the rules in this case." I talk to you and you tell me to just deal with the criticism and without a sense of irony, admitting that I'm an easy target and you can't "protect" me because of it. I've reported Shev to you at it took a lot of days of checking in to see if anything was done. In the end, a week ban was given but it only lasted 4 days because it was appealed. Admins and mods even participated in some of it. Coalf was pretty outspoken and straight up insulted me in front of abo despite abo telling coalf to chill multiple times. I think I mentioned here or in the other complaint that his behavior was excused because "Coalf is just feisty." It's very difficult to ahelp an issue when the people who are supposed to be moderating for terrible behavior participate in it. Arrow in the past has expressed remorse over staff behavior multiple times yet that's all I think was done; just expressions of remorse. It took forever to deal with Lord Fowl and he still has attitude issues towards staff and other users. I reported that one person who told me nothing would matter if I offed myself and I got a lecture from ShameOnTurtles who said that I'm on the same thin ice status on the assumption that what provoked them to tell me to kill myself despite that not being true. I've been giving the same enlightened centrisms viewpoint over and over again where if two people spar, they're both at fault and that's all that's important. So I kinda die a little inside every time you tell me to report something because in the past when I have, it has made the situation worse or it has done absolutely nothing as outlined above. Garnacus admits he hates dealing with us when the only time he's ever dealt with us is when I make complaint threads. I've gotten in trouble for telling people to properly fuck off after they insult me because of the "both sides" mindset. I've had mods tell me to just deal with it and take a break. People have even made memes of the "They were talked to." response in the Aurora discord so I know it isn't just me. Hell, despite all the issues I've had with other people, there were 0 staff complaints made, 1 phony ban request that was dealt with, and 1 phony minor warning that I didn't have the time nor patience to appeal at the time. The only REAL time that people have ever expressed complaints was on my dev application in the last week of trial I believe. This should be evidence enough that users just don't like dealing with the current report system. Solution 1: Transparency. Let people know who's been warned or banned on discord, on the forums, and in game. Multiple successful communities have done this. It works miracles because it lets the community know what behavior is expected and lets the community know that administrative action has taken place. I believe that this was a hot topic on discord several times but never really got past any staff for anyone to do anything about it. Solution 2: Consistency. Admins have severely differing opinions on what's considered rule breaking. I absolutely encourage you that if you have free time to make a google doc poll giving a list of situations that the admins have to act on to prove that this is an issue. If you want, I could make one for you. To solve this, I highly suggest elaborating on behavior rules and giving clear outlines on bad behavior. You have several paragraphs of rules on IC behavior yet there is really only 3 sentences on OOC behavior for in game and one short sentence for discord. The forum rules is just a copy-paste of the server rules with a few minor tweaks as seen here: https://forums.aurorastation.org/guidelines/ Heck, it even mentions "Don't ruin the game." Don't be a dick. We're all here to have fun, not fight and argue with assholes. Don't ruin the game for everyone else, and use common sense. This includes anything from attacking other people, starting arguments over nothing, etcetera. Note that this rule applies primarily to OOC, LOOC, AHELP, and DEADSAY. Rule 2: Don't be a dick. "Don't be a dick" is usually a placeholder rule for people who installed ULX for the first time. What a dick is and isn't is incredibly up to interpretation and is highly dependent on who started it. Other servers usually have more elaborate descriptions. I don't know if I'm asking too much. It feels like I am considering the amount of pushback I've gotten in the past trying to bring up these points. Regardless if anyone asks me if it's worth becoming developer on Aurora I would answer it with a hard no. It feels like a detriment and I strongly feel that it's not a determinant just because of how a few people have an issue with me.

As for your setting standards for feedback response, you do have standards however they are not enforced. The other day when the new sprites were introduced, there were absolute shitters who could not stop talking shit about the sprites to the point where a whitelisted head of staff sent a fax to central saying that the new pens and office supplies look like shit. Despite the absolute hatred in ooc, only a few went to express their concerns in the feedback thread. Bug reporting is barely done in github. 90% of the time I find out bugs when someone casually mentions it in ooc and discord despite knowing about it for a week. I don't know how personally someone could enforce this. I mean it would be dumb if you banned someone for reporting a bug in ooc, but in the cases where it's repeat offenders I genuinely believe that they at least need to be talked to about it and how their behavior is annoying.

Yes. I feel that this is roughly the case. This is mere speculation at point and armchair psychology, but the way the situation was dealt with is that no one really wanted to look at the situation so instead that deal was created to convince us into not causing trouble rather than to enforce the rules. When trouble was caused, the deal was mostly ignored or in cases where it legitimately broke the deal, delayed. It's easier to just blame both people and disregard who's the most at fault than to sift through the sand and find out whose more at fault than others and apply an appropriate punishment to both.

Okay. There is literally absoultely no point in saying this because I literally admitted that I am also at fault in this scenario. The argument that should be had is how much and how much should be considered. Your post doesn't really contribute anything because you're arguing points that have already been discussed and resolved ages ago or in this thread. Also this isn't me dwelling on it. When someone keeps doing the same thing over and over again, and then comes up with a poor excuse to justify it, I'm not going to believe them. You even did it again in this post by saying that I spread gossip about Schev when I literally didn't. There is a huge difference between gossip and venting about someone. Gossiping involves spreading unconfirmed instances like saying "Oh Schev probably smells." while venting is "I'm tired of fucking Schev and here is why." I would not go out of my way to shittalk Schev in that private chat. It was my place to vent semi-privately in order to avoid conflict. Hell, to prove the earlier point I ended up leaving that chat and never vented about Schev again. This was way before the deal with garnacus was made and I think I stopped before the first player complaint I made against him. All the shittalking I did in that semi-private discord was for my own sanity and not to damage Schev's sanity. If I wanted to hurt Schev out of anger, I would've said the words to his face.

I still feel you're only apologizing because you were caught for several reasons. You did not apologize immediately after, but you apologized after everyone said their take, and their take roughly being "What the fuck lmao." You did not improve your behavior after you said it. While I should've acknowledged your apology, at the time I did not think you were genuine in the first place and this was proven with time considering you still continued to berate me unsolicitedly, including the very awful crime of attempting to shitpost me by posting nothing but "LMAO" and "HAHAHA" after I type something in discord. I went to go collect the evidence myself but I legitimately fell into a bout of depression while reading all your posts so I had to make it a meme so it depressed me less. Here. Idk I think Skull probably should've done more to resolve it. I'm not asking him to personally deal with the situation, but when I see a staff member react to something and say that it's against the rules, I assume that they're acting on it by just telling another admin. But he said he was busy with something else and not paying attention, so I can't really argue anything further.

Garnacus himself admitted that he handled the situation poorly, as said above, unless I misread what little he said. No reasonable person should look at a situation where person A comes up to person B, berates them for the upteenth time, and person B goes "Fuck off lmao." and say "Well obviously both sides are equally at fault and banning them both regardless of who provoked who is justified." especially when before, Person A has had a history of conflict with other users. A lot of people tend to ignore that last part, and a lot of staff even admitted this. Hell, this doesn't extend to just Schev; staff have countlessly justified bad behavior by going "Well that's just how he is." or "It's just their way of banter." I recall pointing out how one of the administrators quite literally insulted me in an argument after a head administrator stopped about the insults and then the head administrator goes "That's just how they are, don't worry about it." May I remind you that the deal was the following: If either me or Schev cause issues, we both get a week ban regardless of who started it, regardless of what was said, regardless of absolutely anything. You'd only implement this type of ban if you legitimately don't give a fuck about anything and just want the issue gone. Regardless of anything that has happened thus far, you have never changed your stance. In discord arguments you'd complain about the drama and then give your hot take of "Both sides are at fault." unsolicitedly without providing much explanation why. This post might be the only time you ever explained yourself and quite frankly I find the explanation not very good. Also resentment is a significantly lighter word than insult. Resentment is defined as "bitter indignation at having been treated unfairly."; insult is defined as "speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse."

I can tell that this is already biased because you described the things that Schev said as "resentment" while you describe the things I said as "insult." Schev and I came to agreement without anyone's help. On our own terms. We haven't shat on eachother ever since. None of what you said is accurate and I quite frankly don't understand why you're posting here.

Misread it. Thought you were giving hallucinations to each organ in the system.

Tbh even what was drafted is a little extreme. The side effects themselves seem arbitrary and quite strange compared to other coderbases. If you're going to nerf chemicals, nerf the metabolism rate or strength of the chemical. Adding side effects just overcomplicates medical even more.

tbh im a bit in denial that this is being accepted by the community considering all my suggestions to changing chemistry in the past that are significantly more forgiving and reasonable while this one is quite the opposite. i have a very strong feeling that once this is implemented, people are going to complain hard and strong, and very rightfully. So what I'm reading is that bicaridine gives you the MONKEYLIKE flag which prevents you from using pretty much 90% of things as long as it's in your system. Unironically it would make a good stun/sleep mix since it literally prevents you from using guns, weapons, and tools while it is in your system full stop. Also for dermaline, every 0.4 seconds, the amount of brute damage you take will be increased by 240% until it is out of your system. What is probably intended is that you're meant to take 2.3% more damage per unit metabolized, but still that's pretty strong. For dexalin plus, you have a 10% chance to go near-sighted every 0.4 seconds and a 70% chance to take ~1 eye damage every 0.4 seconds when the chemical is in your system. Ironically, the way it is coded will make it so that it literally cures near-sightedness when dexalin plus finishes metabolising. Peridaxon now causes hallucinations at absolutely incredible strength. Like it gives you 85 hallos per internal organ healed per 0.4 seconds. This is probably unintentional as well but if you take like 1u of the stuff i think you'll have like 100 seconds of super-strength hallucinations after everything is calculated. Tramadol was buffed. It has a SUPER slow metabolism rate and also gives you 30% damage resistance to brute on top of the already existing 80 pain resistance. It can also give you muscle spasms at high doses when you withdrawl. For some reason you vomit at the end when it's done metabolizing, so this would make for an absolutely excellent stun meme weapon if you give someone a cigarette with tramadol in it. Oxycodone is the same as above but amplified.

The meat of the complaint isn't that you aren't protecting me from petty harassment, but you general attitude towards absolutely everything. I have been very clear in the past, present, or future that the fact that people are making memes about me is irrelevant and I do not care that they are doing so. The problem I have is when the usage those memes start to get incredibly out of line and use them as an excuse to berate me while I'm playing or inside the suggestion/project forums. I'm fine with organ damage memes, I have made several jokes about them myself in the past, I have encouraged it, I have even made some myself yet for some reason you ignore all this and claim that I'm upset over memes. When someone posts organ damage memes in ooc at an infrequent rate I have very little problem with it. When the same person attempts to just bring it up constantly whilst also showing toxic behavior I start to have a problem with it. When someone makes junkfood memes on discord, I have no problem with it. When someone (including staff members) post it in the project subforms or suggestion threads when I'm asking for feedback and derailing the thread, I have a problem with it. When I point out these problems and explain my position, you ignore absolutely everything I said and claim it's just about memes. The conversation wasn't about protecting me from community interaction but doing two things to make it better: Setting standards for bug reporting. Setting standards for feedback. Perhaps setting standards for how developers act towards community.

This isn't about "Caring about my problems" it's about how you conducted yourself during this and how, I feel, that you did not pass fair judgement because I feel you do not care at all about anything in the first place. Whether or not this is the truth or not is to be determined, but this is the impression I am getting from you. I'm not saying that your job is to get people to get along on their own. I don't really know what your job description is, but regardless of what it is either I believe that you did not do a satisfactory job, or that the official guidelines on how to deal with situations like these are flawed where it makes you look like you just don't care. You should also be stating plenty of other reasons as to why you should not be making this deal again "It wasn't communicated properly." is only 1/20th of the issue with the deal and I'm hoping to get that across here. I don't think that you believe why the deal in the first place was bad considering you just said "I should've just banned both of you and be done with it." despite at the time, when I made that player complaint, I broke no rules or guidelines. When an incident occured where Shev called me out in chat, I did not respond by biting back, I simply made a player complaint as suggested by a member of staff. The most I did was replying with a thinking emoji and call for Arrow to help me as he is quite familiar with the situation. Just imagine how cruelly hilarious that would be; I followed the rules and procedures of a player showing signs of hostility, I reopened the player complaint, as recommended by a staff member, and because I did so and had an argument about a week ago that was brought to PMs when an admin stepped in, we both received a ban. Effectively I would've received a ban for complaining, because I bet you that if I just kept my mouth shut and didn't make a complaint, I would've been still around in that theoretical situation. On that topic, I think such a deal in the reality we're currently in wouldn't have been enacted when I made an official complaint. As for the "When it's all problems that a specific person brings me i just end up associating them as the problem." statement consider the following: 1. You're a head administrator. All the complex, time consuming issues that involve players will definitely reach you because most admins will seek you for guidance. You don't get easy-to-solve issues because those are easily solved by your capable underlings so cases like Bauser likely don't reach your desk. 2. I have no reason to talk to you otherwise on the server itself. You rarely play, and when you do, you're disguised as it as a greytide for your own amusement. That is not someone that I would befriend OOCly considering it's difficult to tell you apart from real greytide and that's just a rude thing to do. 3. I have no reason to talk to you otherwise on the discord itself. We have no connection to each other and no shared interests. Almost always you're going to get the impression that someone is a whiny little cunt that does nothing but be involved in problems if that's all you hear. Doubly so since you implemented the deal and you yourself admit that this has caused admins/mods to constantly come up to you and ask that "Does this break the deal?" constantly. And I did not make this thread as a "Debate me, change my mind." This is an official staff complaint where I'm officially complaining about your conduct then, and your conduct now. Regardless, my mind very likely isn't made up now, and if you have a solid and reasonable explanation as to why you did the things you did then it would likely help in resolving the staff complaint.