Kaed

For what it's worth, I have lost almost all interest in Ickthar and the HoP role these days. I don't plan to delete the character but there are other roles and characters that are more fun. There's a certain, er, dull lack of excitement or challenge in being able to immediately give myself all access and proximity to the captain right from round start as an antag. The problem with Ickthar was that there is only a small pool of people on server that want to be antags, one of which is myself, so when I am playing I am very often an antag.

Which is why your judgement has been called into question pending review by staff in this complaint. Either they agree with us that you need to dial back your frontline behavior, or they will tell you what you did is okay. This is the purpose of these complaints, to correct or absolve player behavior. We're not here to start a fight with you, just express our concerns over your conduct in server.

Your choosing to concede the issue in engineering and enable me (while appreciated) does not absolve you of the issue stated in this thread, which is that you play Eliade as an better armed and more authoritative officer, and struggle with the idea of having to be on the back lines, delegating, except when there is an emergency. You could easily have sent an officer away from the vault and examined it yourself, with the captain, if you needed to, but when I hack open one door and am faced with the Head of Security themselves less than a minute later, while the vault has been recently breached, it is very jarring and does not present a reasonable escalation of conflict. Frankly, you seem to struggle with this idea regardless of what command member you are playing. I seem to remember that you had the same issue with that female captain character whose name I can't remember right now. The command roles are not intended to give you access to better equipment and more authority to push your way into conflicts so that you can face the antags down as a super-officer, they are so you can run the department you are commanding.

The main principle that I can see being applied to that statement is that while the AI might be an 'infallible overseer' (a statement I regard with extreme skepticism, because people on server tend to regard even the slightest strange behavior from the AI as evidence that it is malf/subverted), it is still not a person and can't provide legally admissible testimony to someone's guilt. Its statements cannot be considered objective because everything is a result of following a set of behavioral guidelines that are not meant to be used for catching criminals. For instance, with some finagling in concept, one could judge that the law that says to 'serve/protect the crew with priority according to rank' could lead an AI to falsely accuse a lower ranking crew member of the crime made by their superior - according to the way the law chain goes, the higher ranking person has priority over their subordinate's safety. This rarely happens IC because usually AI players want to catch the bad guys (which is the problem this suggestion is trying to curtail) but it is possible. And while you might disregard AI testimony, I've seen security teams fall back on AI testimony as evidence.

In some instances the AI can be a lifesaver, reporting attacks on crewmembers or dangerous intruders being present, but much more often their ability to easily see and track any crew member in camera range is used to tattle on anyone performing even minor infractions by immediately alerting security that a crime is in progress, then opening every door on the path for security to arrest that person who hacked open a door or whatever. We've done some to alleviate this by preventing AI from bolting doors to trap every antag they see, but as a protocol rather than mechanical nerf, I propose that AI, not being a crew member but rather a non-person piece of station equipment, can only be used as an advisory body to non-violent crimes, rather than being treated as a witness. For example: -The AI sees someone hacking into engineering, and reports this to security. Under our current standards, this would probably result in at least one officer or overeager HoS rushing over to arrest the culprit sans warrant, because they have spotted them in the area they are not supposed to be that the AI reported them as having broken into. -Under the new standard, officers may report to the scene following the AI's advice, or even check the area on cameras, but even if they find the crew member where they aren't supposed to be they must perform more work than simply taking the AI's word for it that a break-in happened and immediately performing an arrest. Are the doors damaged? Can they confirm with the staff running that department that the person who broke in isn't supposed to be there/was not invited in? If the department is willing to back up their surprise visitor either through being intimidated, compelled, or simply anti-authority (looking at you, engineering..), or perhaps the antag can come up with believable reason why the AI must have been mistaken about what happened, then a warrant with relevant evidence is required to perform the arrest. This also applies to searches if it is code green. If the AI's testimony cannot be taken as official evidence for the sake of arrest, security officers have to do more work than simply respond to AI alerts with immediate non-warranted arrests. This mostly applies to MINOR infractions, where no one has been hurt, and you are generally expected to have a warrant before arrest if you haven't physically seen a crime happening.

I was going to make my own thread, but I was advised to add my experience here. This incident with Klaus Eliade occurred at around 10pm-12am 6/11/2020, round ID b7C-ayMX. As a traitor in that round, I arranged a situation that would give me a plausible reason to get engineering to give me insulated gloves (I got a sympathetic doctor to agree to back me up that I was delivering them for medical because I kept burning my hands and having to come back to medical). When I arrived at engineering, no one responded to the ringer, so I being an antag and having recently heard someone breached the vault and thus security were probably distracted, I broke in to check around where everyone was. The engineers came out about 30 seconds later, and we started to talk about the gloves before our HoS in question rocketed into engineering, telling me that the AI had reported me as having broken in. I did not deny that I had, and he began throwing his weight around, saying he could arrest me for this, but engineering was also not having his guff and backed me up that I was here on business and that I was not unwelcome. Eliade began insisting that as a visitor I had no right to be in engineering and that performing 'assistant duties' like fetching supplies was 'not allowed'. When the engineers ignored him and handed me a requisition form to fill out for insulated gloves, Eliade 'denied' the request, and had to be reminded by the engineering team that he had no authority to give orders to people not in his department. He stomped out shortly after. So, as a summary of this: -During a much more serious situation of the vault being raided, Eliade felt the need to respond personally to an AI report of a visitor breaking into the engineering lobby -Threatened to perform an arrest in person, when that is the sort of thing he should be getting his officers to do, especially for low-level infractions like trespassing -Attempted to exceed his authority by giving orders to the engineering team orders on how to dispense their own supplies. -While I'm specifically sure if it was hot air or not, it seems to me to be carrying the idea that visitors can't perform official job duties a little far to say that also covers doing a 'favor' for someone and fetching supplies, which was the pretense I was getting the gloves under. I don't think that delivering an item counts as an 'official job duty' just because it's something assistants do. It's an unskilled labor and is as silly as ordering a visitor mopping a dirty floor to drop the mop because 'that's janitor's job, ur visitor'

Pass. Rats are intended as a low-commitment role for observers, I don't see a reason to remove them other than they are occasionally irritating.

BYOND key: Character names: How long have you been playing on Aurora?: Since 2016ish Why do you wish to be on the whitelist?: I was on the whitelist before, and due to conduct the whitelist was removed. So I have to fill out this form again. Why did you come to Aurora?: Because it is fun being here, most of the time. Have you read the Aurora wiki on the head roles and qualifications you plan on playing?: Yes. Have you received any administrative actions? And how serious were they? Several, I'm sure. None of them outside of the forums have been serious enough to warrant a ban, that I can recall. Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions in a paragraph each. Give a definition of what you think roleplay is, and should be about: Roleplay should be about the cooperation between two or more people to perform an imaginary activity that, hypothetically speaking, is fun for everyone involved. What do you think the OOC purpose of a Head of Staff is, ingame?: The heads of staff don't serve a single purpose, other than leading their department. Collectively they run the station and, in situations of emergencies or abnormal events, they can reach a consensus as to the way the station will move forward. What do you think the OOC responsibilities of Whitelisted players are to other players, and how would you strive to uphold them?: It's important for a whitelisted player to behave more responsibly than the average person, and in many cases restrain themselves from doing things like rushing to the nearest located antagonist to directly participate in contact when they could be doing administrative things like making sure the engine is running or the security team is arranging themselves effectively. Could you give us the gist of what is currently happening in Tau ceti and how it affected your character and their career? Honestly the only recent thing of note I saw when I skimmed the news earlier was some stuff about a mass IPC malfunction, and given that most of my characters are unathi and already dislike robots, I can't see that it would done a whole lot to change their career. What roles do you plan on playing after the application is accepted? I dunno all of them? I have a separate character for almost every head role, some of which I play more or less than others. Characters you intend to use for command or have created for command. Include the job they will be taking.: Himari Kitaru (Captain) Tazhir Kra'xis (HoS) Njadrasanukii Rrhakaslav (HoS) Icktharr Slithiss (HoP) Lsizu Roeuses (CMO) Kaozrios Szu (CE) How would you rate your own roleplaying?: 13/10 Do you understand your whitelist is not permanent, and may be stripped following continuous administrative action? Extremely, now. Have you familiarize yourself with the wiki pages for the command roles? Yes. Extra notes: Many of my favorite characters are command roles, can I please have them back now :C

Maybe compiling a general list of non in-joke humor would be useful. Some stuff I can think of off the top of my head Doctors: Marvel at how your bedside manner mostly consists of running up to wounded people and wordlessly injecting them before running off to the next person. Try to understand the values on the new health monitor system. Detectives: If you are playing this role, you are probably a robot. (is it just me or is almost every detective an IPC?) Janitor: Realize you have more access than some command roles.

I'm perfectly happy with the stale jokes being replaced with topical ones. As I said, we have our own culture and wiki maintainers like to make jokes. But we should use our own stuff, and less of crossout humor and ancient SS13 memes.

We can still raise the standard higher than regurgitated meme humor and countless crossed out text. It is difficult to express how frustrating it is to want to improve something but be met with a stubborn wall of nostalgic apathy. Why do things have to stay 'fine as they are'. We could easily try changing something, then revert it if we don't like the new concept. Never trying to do something fresh or new because what you have right now is 'sufficient' is an awful mindset to fall into. That's all I'm asking, here. Try something new that uses our own work, instead of copying the other servers.

But we don't practice the culture we are aping, it's misleading. New players won't even understand the source most of these jokes. These are specifically tailored towards amusing the 'old guard' players. It is 100% possible to make new players feel welcome using our own work instead of copying others.

Now that I can finally post again, I would like to elaborate on my viewpoint here. It was never my intention to imply that the Job Guide page was somehow confusing or that it would encourage people to break rules, but rather that the style of it is simply not appropriate to our current standards of the wiki. Shockingly, I took some time to research for once before posting here, and here are some bits of information I found. The wiki as we know it now was started in 2016, around the time Aurora was rebased to the version we currently have it in now. It was primarily written by two people, 'Frances' and 'Burrito Justice' over the course of two years (most of which was simple inactivity followed by surges of content). I know neither of these people, and likely the only person in this thread who might remember them is @Chada1, who seems to have been active in the wiki that far back too. The wiki page in question actually predates our current map by a significant margin. Being that I know neither of these people, I can only speculate as to their motives for writing this page this way. But I will note that the style of the Job Guide page matches exactly the tone, if not the exact wording of other Job Guide pages on several other servers, such as: Goon and /tg/station Perhaps at the time they wrote this, it was in vogue to make Job Guide pages like this. But we are neither of these places, and we should not be emulating their style wholesale simply because of a sense of nostalgia or passive apathy towards change. Certainly, some humor is okay even for wiki maintainer, but no one active on the wiki today made any of these jokes. Frankly, neither Frances nor Burrito Justice did either, they just sort of aped what other wikis were doing - the detective entry for both /tg/station and us even both use the same opening line about chain smoking, for chrissake. Nowhere else on the wiki looks like this. We should make this page more us instead of just getting by with the same as everyone else. Even if we ignore the stylistic dissonance, this page is painfully out of date in a number of small ways, because unless there is a big gameplay change that affects the existence of a job and someone jabs a person to change it, no one looks at it. Some examples of this: -The Chief Engineer references the 'pet' we had before Ginny -The CMO references virology, which was removed (by me) -The Biochemist still exists -The wizard can no longer 'warp around' as someone took away their transport abilities last I checked -We don't have revolutionaries or loyalists anymore. So please, fix this page, and while you're at it, please rewrite the dang thing to be less a pale shaky clone of every other server's Job Guide - we got rid of clones, remember? I'm happy to help do it myself, but I asked Chada1 for permission first, which started this thread.

Well, I haven't kept close track of all my play time, but I would say 1-3 times a week? I do have a full time job, so mostly it's on weekends or the occasional late nights. A lot more of my activity these days is in the github, tbh.

BYOND Key: Kaedwuff Total Ban Length: Indefinite Forum Ban Banning staff member's Key: @Aboshedab Reason of Ban: Being rude on the forums. Reason for Appeal: Well, I made my points last month and was asked to try again later after engaging more with the community and I feel like I have done that, participating in rounds, the github, and the discord. Do you feel I can be trusted to play on the forums again, or should I try again later?

BYOND Key: Kaedwuff Staff BYOND Key: Aboshedab Game ID: N/A Reason for complaint: Whitelist strip and denial of appeal for forum ban on bad faith grounds. Evidence/logs/etc: Additional remarks: The appeal was denied on the grounds that I have not sufficiently interacted with the community on-server. The specific action that caused my ban was not behavior on the server itself, but behavior on the forums, and my lack of playing on the server for the last 4 months was due entirely to not being able to enjoy interacting with the community anymore when I am unable to use the forums. Essentially, I am being asked to perform self-punishment to prove my penance before I can come back. Additionally, I would also like to contest the original ruling that was made by Aboshedab 4 months ago. Verbatim: I feel that this ruling was excessive punitive measures against me. I was given a warning for my forum behavior (reasonable), an additional permanent forum ban (also reasonable), but also had my command whitelist stripped as an additional punitive measure on the vague grounds that my 'improper conduct is not acceptable for people holding a command whitelist'. My conduct as a command member on server is completely separate from the forums, and using rudeness on the forums to stretch out an additional extra insufficiently related punishment when I'm already receiving a permanent ban is excessive and - I feel - borders on malicious. The whitelist strip was not grounded in any actual use of that whitelist in the server, any more than my being rude in the forums means I can't be trusted to play an unathi responsibly anymore. As I mentioned in the original appeal I am not against a probationary period of forum use where I can prove that I behave myself, only allowed to post in relation to my activities outside the forums, such as feedback for my own PRs or forums that are related to server activity (Complaints/IRs/Whitelists), i.e. the bare minimum for participation in the github/server, but requiring that I make myself suffer to prove that I can behave myself is, in my opinion, unreasonable. Especially after leaving the ban uncontested for 4 months to cool things off.

Is there some separate form for an appeal.. appeal? And why is my status 'Soft-Banned' now? =/

My behavior on the server remains for the large part entirely separate from my behavior on the forums. I never received a ban on the server itself, just from communicating on the forums, because my behavior on the server never involved any angry attacks on people, I'm focused on roleplaying and the round itself. Arbitrarily declaring that I need to play rounds on the server before I can start posting on the forum again does not really prove anything - logically speaking, I could spend 6 months behaving myself on the server, then have a tantrum on the forum the moment after you unban me here. I don't intend to do that, I just don't think that the logic here is sound. If you want to see if I behave myself on the forums, I have to be able to show that I can behave myself on the forums. Additionally, there is not a whole lot of appeal to me playing on a server in which I cannot participate in the greater community of. I'm not allowed to discuss rounds anymore after they happen, or make complaints/IRs. I can't apply for a new whitelist. I've been active recently on GitHub, too, but I'm unable to present my PRs to the community at large, because I'm not allowed to create Project/Suggestion threads. This makes things extremely difficult to engage with, to have no access to one part of the whole but be expected to prove myself by tenure on unrelated other pieces too. I wouldn't even be against a probationary period where I can only post personal business stuff, like in regards to feedback on github PRs I have made and doing 'paperwork' threads like Complaints/IRs/Whitelists. I just really need to be able to access the basic amenities of the community forum to be able to even want to be here.

BYOND Key: Kaedwuff Total Ban Length: Indefinite Forum/Command ban Banning staff member's Key: Abosheb Reason of Ban: Being rude on the forums. Reason for Appeal: I don't really have a lot of say in my defense here. I've been a bit of a butt over the last year or so, mostly on the forums, but a little bit on the server too. I have a tendency to let my temper get the better of me in disagreements with people that is probably well known among the regulars, most of which probably don't much care for me as result. For quite a while after I was issued my ban I told myself that I didn't need this community, it's full of hypersensitive children analogues who can't take criticism, and whatever other excuses I used to justify the reason why everyone else but me was in the wrong here. I'd be lying if I said part of me didn't still want to think that - it's hard to admit you're wrong and the asshole. But I spent several months looking at other servers, and I found that none of them really had the community or feel to them that made my time with this one feel so special and fulfilling. As many flaws as I find myself being upset with, this is the best server I've ever been able to find, at least for me. So, I'd like to give it another try, hopefully with a better perspective this time on how important it is to get along with everyone else here, even if I don't always agree with them. For what it's worth, I'm sorry that I was such an angry asshole who snipped at everyone until the staff finally had enough of me. The best I can offer you is that I'll try to do better.

I know very little about brainmed, but I think it's funny that we've gone from ballistics being objectively stronger than lasers to being joke compared to deadly lasers.

This thread has been dead for months and I have no interest in pursuing it anymore, can someone kill it please before it gets necroposted again.

The specific issue here is that shoving yourself into cryo before you ghost is considered a specific exception to the behavior, because you're basically removing yourself from the round rather than just quitting and letting your body lie there - staff members will just kind of shrug and put their hands up saying 'well I can't force them to play'. I can recall several times where I thralled or converted a certain popular CMO character, who then immediately made a beeline for cryo, citing that he didn't feel that it was done to his satisfaction.

Honestly I can't see much of a problem with that. Skill in combat is absolutely a role-playing situation, so as long as you're making an effort to create a story where you fail and die instead of immediately murdering yourself or running to cryo I don't have an issue.

Suicide isn't always a viable option, especially if you're in a position where your character is being supernaturally or through ... Brain slug chemistry nonsense... Forced to do something that isn't committing suicide. Which means either we commit to telling people to suck it up and roll with it, or no one has to commit anything and can cryo the moment they don't like it.

Absolutely. Please do enforce that on both ends. I would joyfully support antags not being allowed to cryo the moment they're captured, including myself, if non antagonist were also held to the same standard of not instantly noping out of the game because an antag got them. Did you think you were going to embarrass me with an accusation of hypocrisy? You've just finally managed to grasp my frustration with the one-sided standard of non antag entitlements. If everyone is expected to play by the same rules I have no problem following them. But if people can't be arsed to stay in the round after I thrall or convert them (or they get brain slugged), I and everybody else have absolutely no incentive to not cryo as soon as we're captured by security. (For the record though I've done that exactly twice and that was months ago, and they were largely the result of particularly frustrating rounds where I spent the entire time constantly fleeing security unable to do anything. So this doesn't even qualify as a habitual thing.)