Scheveningen Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Before I get squared away to the application, I want to outline some of my issues with the current lore page and how I think it could be improved. Unfortunately this is one of those situations where I personally believe nothing other than a retcon in some areas will correct some of the issues inherent to Dominia and how some of the playerbase has made some huge mistakes in understanding the written intention of what Dominia is truly supposed to be according to some discussions I've had with Zundy. I'll take snippets skimming down the lore page and make bullet points referencing the line in particular. Sometimes I'll talk about something I really like and will want to keep, other times I'll be a critic over a detail in writing that I think should be scrubbed, sometimes a bit in-between. I'll put all of the below issues into a spoiler, that way it doesn't bloat this up. "The Empire of Dominia was formed from an amalgamation of Unathi pirate clans and human colonists in the mid 25th century. It is made up of a multiple star systems with four key planets. It's national motto is "In Their Name, So Shall It Be Done" with an unoffical moto "Democracy Is A Code Word For Plutocracy". It's official language is Tau Ceti Basic and Sinta'Azaziba..." I personally like the idea of a mixed Unathi/Human nation. It's a very cool and diverse idea overall, but I have an idea later into the suggestions section of this post to make the Unathi have more clout and significance in Morozi society. I like the mottos and think they're both tasteful and funny. It speaks platitudes about the state of consolidated power, I immediately imagine that the Emperor holds occasional elections during good and bad periods to manipulate public opinion and make them seem like their input matters despite that the Emperor already intended for a specific solution to be employed among the solutions you could vote for. This gives his subjects the illusion of influence in their country's progression and leaves them content and devoted to the established government that 'allows' them to participate. What is significant about Dominia is it's state religion, the Moroz Holy Tribunal, which rules alongside the Emperor and creates the laws of the land. It remains diplomatically isolated. I dislike this. This is the core issue of why some people critique Dominia as a theocracy (which, technically untrue, but still true in a different way), because the Emperor's power is rivaled by the influence of a theological organization that actually makes the laws. While I understand that there's the implication of the Emperor serving as a check/balance to the power of the Moroz Holy Tribunal, throughout human history various monarchies have had their sovereignty constantly challenged by the establish religious authorities in their communities. Due to the threat of being considered a heretic by the people, the monarchies have had to submit to the will of the religious authorities in most circumstances to keep what little power they even have. It's either that or the Emperor willingly subjects himself to the authority of the Holy Tribunal whenever it comes around. And this has terrible implications in itself, which is why I think the Holy Tribunal needs to go. If I were the Emperor, I'd smite these would-be rebellious elements and wipe their influence from my system. I can't afford to have religious fanatics meddling in my plans for system-wide unification under my own interests. Religion always finds a way to threaten big government if it's given space to do so. See how Stalin and Hitler both dealt with Christianity by attempting to exterminate their influence. The best way to handle this is for Boleslaw to decide for this group to be outdated and replace the Holy Tribunal with a systematic web of various colonial Ministries intended to regulate the diaspora of Morozi citizens outside the reasonable influence of the central government. These ministries are regulated by certain corporations that are at the top of the various industries that supply the various demands of the Morozi populace. I'll detail these later. Population and planets, economics, etc... I'm fine with this entire section aside for the economy. I don't think the stratification should be as severe as it is, but considering how the Dominian Empire only just recently abolished slavery, I'm hoping it's a condition that's slowly improving as the Emperor and his Ministries are gradually introducing some social welfare policies as the Imperial Budget will allow to improve the Approval for the Empire's dealings, in addition to increasing the amount of ethics attraction from other nations to Dominia's seemingly gradual 'reformation'. Little do they know that they're the ones being toyed with, ahaha! All part of the plan, the glorious Emperor Boleslaw Keeser wins again. I also have no issue regarding the current ethnic group formation. I genuinely think that the majority of Unathi that exist in the United Empire of Moroz should be part of an exclusive stratified upper class as many of their ancestors have proven of great heroic value to the Empire through various means be they militaristic, industrial, scientific or ecological value to the unified state at-large. Because of this, I think the percentages should be tweaked to make the Dominian Unathi at least amount to between 7-10% of the total populace. The Imperial Cabinet and the rest of the Dominian Government. Implications about succession. I love the idea of an Imperial cabinet but I seriously think there should be more seats. The United Empire should not merely be a militarized state, as it needs the industry and the scientific community to back that military industry. Not to mention how there could be various authorities on colonial expansion and the management of the diaspora of Morozi citizens too far away from the Central Imperial Sector. The Empire should intend to expand very soon, and because of that it may prove difficult for the Emperor to rule his charges by his will alone. Furthermore, I think there should be a fair deal of political strife over who the current Emperor is going to choose as his Emperor-elect. To become Emperor shouldn't be a rite of succession by birth-right alone, but rather of intrinsic merit to the throne. It's obviously the Emperor's call either way, but as Boleslaw is a BIGTHINK guy in my headcanon, if he has a dipshit asshole son of a successor, he's going to disown them and choose a non-relative Emperor-elect to rule his empire when he retires. Because of this, the idea of Boleslaw's legacy being passed down to the best servant of the Empire that he's ever known becomes immortal as it is known that he makes the best possible decisions for the Empire even as he retires to his deathbed. The Great Houses are okay but I was expecting more than five, personally. I would not change any of them currently, though. Again, I dislike how the Tribunal serves as the legislature. Imperialistic organizations and religious inquisitions don't blend well. Type (e.g. Planet, Faction, System): Yes. It is a faction with sovereignty of the X'yr Vharn'p system, its homeworld is called "Dominion." The reason for the homeworld name change is due to the concern of the Empire's overall intention in where its sovereignty lies. Dominion is an idea, it is an ambition that its Emperor and his subjects strive towards. The United Empire of Moroz does not limit its scope alone to a single system! Founding/Settlement Date(if applicable): Colonized in the 22nd century. Formed into the Empire of Dominia in the late 24th century, rather than 25th. After a failed coup by the Holy Tribunal to assassinate the Emperor and seize his imperial holdings and titles, Emperor Boleslaw Keeser passed a series of edicts to abolish the Holy Tribunal and supplanting the legislature with a series of various central Ministries tailored to various tasks such as System Development, lawmaking, and more on this later. The former Empire of Dominia would become forever changed into the United Empire of Moroz. Shortly after this terrible coup by the traitorous dogs of the ex-Tribunal, this would thereafter spurn the United Empire to open diplomatic relations with the more inferior nations, if only to acquire goods that the Empire would find too expensive to produce on its own. The Empire may thrive in occasions of conflict but it must also thrive in peace, or else it will never thrive when victory is achieved, for it will be a temporary one before it devolves into bloodthirsty anarchy. Region of Space: Within the territory of X'yr Vharn'p. It's east of the Sol Alliance. :smirk: Controlled by (if not a faction): Sovereign of itself. The Empire will not tolerate any implications to the opposite. Other Snapshot information: A threatening industrial complex ever since the first colonists of Dominia found massive deposits of titanium on their homeworld, the former Empire of Dominia was formed from an amalgamation of Unathi pirate clans and human colonists in the mid 24th century. Until it suffered a terrible coup in the mid 25th century, which spurned the Emperor to completely change the face of the nation and drop the current culture on its head, rebranding his empire as the United Empire of Moroz. Though admittedly unstable in present times, it promises fast industrialization underneath a uniting banner of a social concept known as the Emperor's Domineering Will. It posits that anything is justified in the pursuit of success so long as it benefits the agenda of the United Empire the most. It is made up of a multiple star systems with four key planets. It's national motto is "In Their Name, So Shall It Be Done" with an unofficial motto "Democracy Is A Code Word For Plutocracy". Its official languages are Tau Ceti Basic and Sinta'Azaziba. Long Description: (I'm only adding snippets that need to be changed, as, for instance, most of the planet blurbs do not need changes. Anything else that is not referenced shouldn't be changed.) Changes to Population and Planets Dominia Dominion The capital planet the Empire with roughly 2.3 billion residents. The planet is largely dominated by its large polar circle which encompasses around 70% of the planets surface. Most settlements are dotted around the equator of the world, though some outer villages and towns are located in the sparse, frigid northern regions. The citizens of these arctic regions are known for their endurance and survival skills causing many to be recruited into the Imperial Army. In recent years efforts have been made to reclaim the polar regions with the use of large Echelon Mirrors, large constructions which direct heat and sunlight into their local surrounding areas. These melt zones are then settled and cultivated. There is a growing rift between the 'original' inhabitants of the polar regions who's rugged, survivalist lifestyle is being replaced by the more 'cushy' urban migrants. Dominion is also home to the prestigious "Juro School of Genetics and Bio-Sciences", a University focusing on genetic research and cross-species biology. Key tourist attractions include the polar tours, the Imperial Palace exterior with gardens and the four metre phoron crystal statue of fifteen battle medal holder Immortal Tribunal Commando Kikari Azi in the Imperial Plaza. This statue is constantly defaced despite the nobility still venerating the Unathi commando as a hero and not representative of the old Tribunal that dared betray the principles of the Empire. Vandals that are caught are shipped off to the prison labor camps. A Specific Faction of Freedom, the Extrastellar Travel Union, calls this system home, usually on Dominion. A desire to break the bluespace monopoly held by Nanotrasen, and a few other corporations is their primary goal. Spartan The second most inhabited planet with 300 million people, Spartan has a thin but breathable atmosphere and largely unstable crust. It suffers from frequent natural disasters from earthquakes to volcanoes. Despite the violent geology making permanent habitation dangerous, the unstable crust contains an incredibly rich source of minerals and valuable ores that form the backbone of the local economy. Massive veins of titanium and other precious metal materials can be found on this planet, it is arguably the largest industrial complex throughout the Empire. Ignotum Balteum The least populated world in the Empire with 100 millions subjects, Ignotum Balteum is a dry world with a mixed climate of savannas, deserts and arid polar regions. Many Unathi are known to dwell here and the Moroz Holy Tribunal's power is at it's most potent, despite the organization being effectively banished, the Ex-Tribunal's numbers still survive and thrive here. The Emperor is known to authorize campaigns to wipe out the more militaristic elements of the old Traitor-Tribunal, but these campaigns rarely succeed in totality due to the Central Imperial Military's unfamiliarity with the planet compared to the Ex-Tribunal's. --- Government Dominia operates as a feudal empire similar to the Izweski Hegemony, but far more radical and centralized in design. Similar to the Izweski Hegemony, the United Empire of Moroz has an extreme stratification of the various economic classes in addition to the severe divisions of the political atmosphere. The Emperor's Domineering Will posits that one's political opinion can only be judged by the individual's own merit to society by which they express it. The Emperor extrapolates on this, and states for the sake of example, that a nonintellectual's opinion on the scientific community will largely go unconsidered in his council, preferring to only use his time listening to professionals of their field and craft. Similarly this is applied across the scope of various subjects the same way, leading to a very classist society. Because of this, however, those who yearn for representation often strive to be able to self-educate and make appeals to the Emperor or his lower echelons of his council. Imperial Cabinet Acting as the executive cabinet, this branch of government exists to exert the will of the Emperor. Almost all major political posts are controlled by Emperor Bolesław Keeser, though his influence often does not stretch beyond the Central Imperial Sector, necessitating a diversification of various departments and ministries designed to handle the diaspora of displaced Morozi citizens outside the typical influence of the Homeworld. Under him is his Imperial Cabinet, made up of: High Lord General of the Army: Kasz Han'San (Unathi) High Lord Admiral of the Navy: Maxim Zhao (Human) Seneschal of Diplomatic Affairs: Ngo Juric (Human) Grand Seeker of the Scientific Complex: Tzu Raudd (Human) Great Counselor of Industrial Affairs: Lenko Zask (Unathi) Legislature The Emperor offered the non-rebellious legislators of the ex-Tribunal an ultimatum: "Serve me under a short leash and I will spare you a swift reckoning." Many accepted this offer, as their loyalties to the Empire and its ruler burned still with fiery fervor, their religious ties to the Tribunal quickly severed over time. Still composed of a similar structure as before, the legislature is composed of representatives of one from each world. In the event of a tie for a vote between the four, the Emperor would cast his vote as a tie-breaker. It is impossible to abstain from a vote. --- (I have no issue presently with the timeline as it stands, other than pushing the formation of Dominia 100 years earlier, though it isn't a required change, it'd justify the massive industrial complex they currently have in my rendition. in no way comparable to the Alliance, however. Obviously I'd like to fit in the coup somehow but I'm at a writer's block as to how to describe the engagement. More on that later, I guess? Maybe further discussion would suit to inspire me.) -- Life in Dominia Tribunal Imperial Morozi Commandos To become an Imperial Commando is a death sentence, through and through. Whether one is inducted into the commandos through Imperial Penance, one of the most serious judicial punishments in the Empire, or through a wish to have a more meaningful life than they had, to become a Commando is to sacrifice everything you possess to perform military operations for the Empire. The Commandos source as 32% of the standing military force of the Empire. The old tradition of Tribunal Commandos, while tragic as it was that the religious structure would dare betray its emperor, was a time-honored societal structure, and the Empire would still venerate the Immortal Tribunal Commandos and the newer, lightly black-armored Imperial Commandos. Much in terms of tradition and expectations would not change, aside from the religious fervor being redirected for nationalistic patriotism. Acting as a vanguard force to soften up targets or as distractions, members of the Commandos are expected to die. Like ‘Guwandi’ it is possible for a citizen to regain their honor whilst serving in the unit and be released from service and accepted into their clan, house or into a new found lease of life. It is not uncommon for young men and women with no real prospects to join the Imperial Commandos to prove their worth to their families or themselves. A Commando who survives an engagement is awarded a square, bronze battle medal. When ten are accrued the soldier is offered the choice to remain within the Commandos or be honorably discharged, keeping his medals and earning the title of Ten Medal "Immortal of the Imperial Morozi Commandos". A soldier who survives ten engagements is very uncommon. Cowardice in any front leads to a very humiliating and drawn out execution if a Commando is caught abdicating their post. Synth Relations Little has changed regarding the fear that any Imperial citizen could be replaced or impersonated by a synthetic, as well as the sheer hostility towards sapient synthetics. Moral implications aside, the Emperor has stated multiple times that synthetics present a clear threat to the United Empire's industry and economic state. The Emperor has been quoted to say with inspired rancor -- "The synthetic menace is one that cannot be tolerated in its current manifestation. It serves as a mockery to what human-kind and Sinta have both accomplished together in this nation that I am privileged to lord over. They may speak as if it they are one of us, they may express and mimic gestures as if they are one of us, but at their core they were created by spiteful individuals who only wished to see us squirm at the sight of this uncanny, ugly representation of sapient life. They shall not see us squirm, no, we shall be at the very throat of this menace as we choke it out of our society for good!" -- with raucous applause thereafter. Anti-synthetic checkpoints can be found all over the world of Dominion, with various patrol units equipped with synthetic detection scanners marching through the streets to scan every pedestrian that happens upon the patrol unit. Unintelligent robots are still constructed on occasion to streamline industrialization and the Empire has little concern regarding the existence of prosthetics. Edict Breakers (I'd write an entire novel on these laws but writing 31 of them just to specify murder and etc would be too silly.) The Emperor would soon change his approach to Edict Breakers and the implications regarding their punishment. Execution was still considered a valid method of punishment, but it would be rarely for any singular charge. In cases such as Blood-For-Blood Edicts in which they are categorized as assault on Imperial citizens with the charge escalating on the classes of both the perpetrator and the victim, public execution would be expected, though in some cases the judicial branch would decide on banishment which fell under the same concept of "Blood-for-Blood", as the banished individual would be carted around in an Imperial prison ship and dumped off onto a designated world meant for banished criminals. The Edicts relating to heresy were eventually edited to contain the outlined punishment for betrayal/deceit against another Imperial citizen or a superior in socioeconomic class. The punishment, again, escalating based on the severity and classes of the perpetrator and the victim. The most dire of Edict breaks in regards to deceit would be the Eleventh Edict, The Imperial Condemnation Against Unrepentant Conspirators. The penalty was often isolated imprisonment in a dark, sound-proofed cell, the only light seeping in when the unrepentant prisoners would have their meals pushed through a slot in the door. Edicts pertaining to property crimes varied in punishment. They could be anywhere between serious fines to complete stripping of societal class and being kicked out onto the street to earn their honor and wealth again. The punishment severity often depended on how affluent the victim is, and how far they wanted to push the matter. Providing false testimony in a court of law would result in being struck deaf and dumb, for they would no longer be able to speak of or hear of any lies ever again. --- Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 The theocratic nature of the tribunal and the imperial totalitarianism of the imperial cabinet both combine together into the identity of the empire. The Tribunal is too central to the identity of the faction to do away with, and it is the most unique political entity in our setting being an extreme blend of the Sk'akh church and Christianity. This is merely taking a fun antagonist and turning it into the same type of Evil Empire we see in sci-fi ad infinitum. This does not bring anything to the table. We will not be removing the Faith from Dominia. Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 You hadn't even tried to point out what's wrong with my initial post. You hadn't even addressed my points regarding why I think the current status quo of Dominia is poor and you say "no this is bad." The theocratic nature of the tribunal and the imperial totalitarianism of the imperial cabinet both combine together into the identity of the empire. We already see this in the Hegemony. It is nothing new, it is a deliberate copy of the Hegemony. There is no creativity here. I've expressed creative freedom here to make it distinct from the Hegemony and you've said absolutely nothing about it. We don't have an autocratic, imperialist industrial complex faction that encroaches and acts like a bully to others, that exists in our lore. There's nothing wrong with having a faction create tension by deploying its fleets and creating border tension by sitting their ships nearest to the border of whoever they wish to bully. This is a common theme with aggressive empires in 4X video games, said factions are modeled after real-life military strategies & tactics employed by various nations over time. If you want to make this an antagonistic faction it actually needs to be able to pose a potential threat, or else it's a joke in lore. "Lore needs to reflect mechanics", I believe that is what you said at one point. If you show a Stellaris player with no lore knowledge of the Hegemony they're going to say, "Oh, so they're theocratic authoritarians, I bet they're mean and call us inferior of faith." When they look at what's written, they realize the Hegemony's more complex than that. It's easy to call something as if it's lacking in depth when you haven't even read it. The Tribunal is too central to the identity of the faction to do away with, and it is the most unique political entity in our setting being an extreme blend of the Sk'akh church and Christianity. The central element of an autocracy should be its autocrat. The Tribunal is not Dominia, Boleslaw is Dominia. The Tribunal is not even close to Sk'akh or the fundamentals of Christianity either. Moroz should be an autocracy ruled by the twin interests of the Unathi and Human colonials banded together to unite its imperial citizens under a single overriding banner. Having imperialistic characters engage in psuedo classist conflict with other characters on station is bound to be a blast and I'm very excited with the ideas I've presented as I'm sure there's hundreds of hours in mileage for the given concept I've written. I don't understand why you think blending two extremes and calling it a well-written antagonist faction is any good either. The lore for Dominia as it stands has mostly only bred low-quality characters that scream about God and synthetics over communications for seemingly obtuse reasons. Call me out and say this is untrue. Calling what Dominia is currently as an extreme blend of Christianity is flat out bigoted and insulting, especially when taking into consideration that the Crusades and the Inquisition only came to bout given it was the Medieval era where feudal war was constantly waged due to a lack of an industrial framework that would allow for more rich and organized kingdoms, instead leading to an extreme political stratification where the countries we know of today were split into individual counties. There were dozens of kingdoms that existed during the time because there was little in the way of industrialization and logistics until the Renaissance era. This setting is the Space age. While the primary means of quick transportation is largely dominated by a single megacorporation, smaller colonies get around this by purchasing from third-party suppliers. Colonies still manage to exploit their own planets' resources and establish their own forms of governments with various levels of effectiveness. Interchangeable parts, factories and the technology to allow for simple industrialization of planets varying from budding colonies to massive, stacked-complexes of science and industry. Feudal forms of governments are primitive, pre-industrial social systems. It was a dominant social system because it worked for the time. There wasn't any private security forces or massive armies marching across the globe. There were very few established civilian and military customs for the time. Feudalism was the only way that nations could start to grow on their own. Neo-feudalism makes absolutely no sense in existing in this setting, because the apocalypse hasn't even happened yet. They are the most out of place faction in the entire game. The Alliance fits. The Hegemony fits. The Jargon Federation fits. The PRA fit. All the various Frontier Nations can fit, but Dominia is an established nation that people have been permitted to source their characters from and populate the station with. Dominia does not fit in its current iteration and I have provided a solution to help it fit. I'd slap WiP on it now because I'm also willing to change minor facets because I never claimed it was the perfect solution, but it's the only one up currently. https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=The_Syndicate Look at what you all wrote for the Syndicate. All of this written down is excellent and it makes sense for the given environment. It's a hostile anti-corporate bad guy organization. They hate NanoTrasen and everything they stand for because they're anti-monopolist terrorists. This is merely taking a fun antagonist and turning it into the same type of Evil Empire we see in sci-fi ad infinitum. This does not bring anything to the table. We will not be removing the Faith from Dominia. This statement is especially insulting considering how you hadn't even addressed a single part of the OP. Calling it a Generic McEvilDude faction is flat out mean-spirited because you haven't even shown you've read my post. You've just dropped this vague statement without even reading the post or bothering to make a more well-reasoned response than, "-1, I hate this, nothing needs to change or improve at all." That's all your post is here. It's worth absolutely nothing in feedback to me because I've no idea how to improve this concept to make it more attractive. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 We are not creating a stellaris game recreation nor is aurora a 4x game. A factions ability to project itself in the galaxy is not inherently important or interesting. What matters is how it impacts individual people, and the backstories it creates. We already have imperialist nations. The alliance chaffes with the frontier. The skrell push their monolithic vision on their neighbors. The hegemony can only use 30% of its power to mess with its neighbors. Im not interested and i dont think most players are interested in esoteric fleet maneuvers, outside the individual stories that can be created from them, such as the explosion of dominian characters after the Trojan-war inspired arc with the hegemony and unathi. Otherwise an oppressive totalitarian theocracy is not filled outside dominia. We have many dominian characters who harbor anti-dominia sentiments and live in tau ceti to escape, or loyalists who do a good job reinforcing why they left. Its doing its job for its players. Many Dominian characters will agree with you about the screaming on comms. I read the entire application. I am addressing the foundation of why I find it unacceptable. This thread is fine. We are still talking about it. I wont lock it suddenly or anything. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I did fail to address one thing. The Tribunal is not based on Christianity. It's based on the Sk'akh church of the Unathi, lifting elements from the Inquisition. Link to comment
Snake2512 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I did fail to address one thing. The Tribunal is not based on Christianity. It's based on the Sk'akh church of the Unathi, lifting elements from the Inquisition. Yeah and the Sk'ah Doctrines mirror Christianity's pace by pace except for the concept of >soul could have been given a body of the different sex > A same-sex couple is just as sinful as a heterosexual couple who don't intend to have children, because their love or lust has become more important than their duty. This view varies within the church, but most priests are frustrated with homosexual relationships on equal terms as child-less marriage Like come on someone has been reading Pope St. John Paul II Where Moroz and Sk'ah deviate however is when it jumps back into the field Monotheism and so the Moroz Tribunal is a painful rip of Christianity whether you intended it or not. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I've never read Pope St. John Paul II. he Sk'akh Church does have light elements of the orthodox christian faith. This aesthetic is reinforced in the bust of its spiritual and political leader. What a sweet, trustworthy looking boy. Put your faith in him. Anyway; these are aesthetic similarities. They do not share beat for beat elements with the catholic church. The catholic church does not, as far as I am aware, hold any if all of the views of the Sk'akh church. I do not believe Catholicism preaches against prosthetic limbs. Your cherry picked example is a bit irrelevant because Unathi do not have western concepts of sexuality. You did not quote the entire section, which explains how relationships and sexuality are framed within the Church. If you are going to cite one of their major doctrines and say it is copypasted from a Pope, please cite the entire passage. Non-traditional relationships are frowned on by the Church because of the cultural importance of arranged marriage and one's duty to continue a clan's dynasty, as Sk'akh demands of all Sinta'Unathi. Relationships are defined in Sk'akh theology as either Lust (physical desire), Love (romantic desire), or Dutiful (proper desire). In this context, Sk'akh preaches against lust and love becoming more important to Unathi than their Dutiful relationships. A same-sex couple is just as sinful as a heterosexual couple who don't intend to have children, because their love or lust has become more important than their duty. This view varies within the church, but most priests are frustrated with homosexual relationships on equal terms as child-less marriage. Because a marriage is usually a political contract between two clans to combine their dynasty, there are no mechanisms in place for same-sex marriages. But not on this thread. It is irrelevant to this argument. Sk'akh is not catholicism. The Tribunal is not Catholocism. The Tribunal is not Sk'akh. Sk'akh is not the Tribunal. Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 Veering off the rails just to discuss the similarities of the various religions in-game is absolutely bollocks and it's not what I'm here to discuss. Stop derailing. I don't know how else to explain to you that Dominia in its current iteration is absolutely unreasonable and barbaric. Dominia as it stands is absolutely not sustainable in the current age. The original concept from the player who wrote it effectively had their writing co-opted and stolen by the lore team, it was rebranded through everything he wrote about it and then left the name "Dominia." It's easily perceived at this point that the lore team's plagiarized a concept from a player and then completely turned it on its head while keeping the name and some of the more ridiculous elements in the original design. It still leaves the shadow of ridiculousness that it originally was in its current barbaric iteration. This is absolutely not the standard the lore staff should be setting, to take concepts not theirs to begin with and edit everything without their permission. This is absolutely unethical and the end result in terms of merit only bears a very bitter taste in how Dominia is presented. If Dominia does not change it will continue to be treated as unseriously as it is. This is not an issue that administrators can immediately ban away from the servers, this is an issue inherent to a failure in writing and being able to think ahead as to how the readerbase is going to treat an impending concept. Dominia has an incredible amount of potential as an antagonistic faction but I find it ridiculous that you want to keep the absurdity of the faction how it is. As it stands it's not being taken seriously and it draws its own font of players who act ridiculous because of how absolutely ridiculous the core concept is. Was the Dominians screaming about God completely unexpected? Did that shock you when you heard about it? It's completely groanworthy. When I see a character in a marziite garb, I expect them to be intimidating and depending on the character I'm playing I might reply with a defensive or a spooked response. When I see a character in the dominian finery or see a clearly romanized name, I instantly expect them to be over-the-top acting like a religious zealot screaming at the top of their lungs about God, Edict Breakers and so on. Because that's supposed to the majority representation of what to expect from Dominian culture. Dominian outcasts, criminals or vocal minority moderates are not wholly representative of a good deal of what the written nature of the Dominian lore page is supposed to tell you about the average Dominian citizen and their lifestyle. This is a similar situation to the station being overpopulated with Guwans not too long ago, which caused an issue because they had numbers that were greatly over-represented. If this is supposed to mean that you can only play a Dominian that isn't a complete fanatic to their nation and cause, then I don't see the point of Dominia being so over-the-top at all if you can't act within the lore expectations to begin with. Because NanoTrasen doesn't make a point out of hiring extremists or crazies onboard their station, apparently, which is also reflected in the rules of having to roleplay a sane character. I've provided solutions to allow for a discussion regarding the "sanity check." You've chosen to ignore them and not give credit to any points brought up here. You only came into this thread just to say "no" and "no you're wrong" with only vague explanations as to why. You're arguing in bad faith and I'd also argue you're being super selfish and not considering anything other than your own viewpoint. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 If I was being selfish I would lock and archive this thread and leave it at that. I am addressing all of the problematic aspects of your canonization request. I do not agree that it is bad faith to do this. Yes Dominia may be unsustainable. So was the Soviet Union. But for someone in 1985, despite how unsustainable the Soviet Union was, it was still there. There was still that period of time between the 20's and 90's where it was relevant to the world and the people on it. Dominia may fade from the galactic scene or become a failed state some time in the future, but that time has not yet arrived. For now, it exists, and it is barbaric. Blame the tremendously bad gamble of President Charles Manthur for that. Dominia remains popular with its players. I encourage you to read the wiki entries for Dominia in their current form to see what they are getting from it. I'd like additional feedback from other people. Link to comment
Snake2512 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Yes Dominia may be unsustainable. So was the Soviet Union. But for someone in 1985, despite how unsustainable the Soviet Union was, it was still there. There was still that period of time between the 20's and 90's where it was relevant to the world and the people on it. But the Soviet union had a reason to exist and believable circumstances, also believable ways it maintained its existence. Dominia's Tribunal has none of these things, the constant thing I see claimed by its lore devs (I think Zundy was the last man to mention this to me) is that its Tribunal isn't an Inquisition because it simply publishes Edicts and its citizens follow. The question that erupts is why? There is no reason for their citizens to kill their fellow man for the Tribunal offers quite literally nothing in their doctrines or prayers other than a love that isn't really defined and a hope that apparently never comes. The religion which is a central theme of the Dominian people is horrifically shallow and it creates an immense amount of problems in game, specifically their Chaplains. I've sat down with just about every single Chaplain and their spiritual beliefs range from angry atheist to non-denominational motivational speaker, not a single one agreeing with each other on doctrines (except matters concerning IPCs). One player even told me that the Dominian religion comes from Catholicism so we should be friends. I've met one Dominian player that didn't stick out like a sore thumb, for all their reverence to the Emperor and their God they don't actually take a hard stance on any moral issues of substance other than things concerning Synthetics and Edict breakers, their edicts funnily enough not having any firm beliefs either other than 'die synthetics, dont disagree with us'. Anytime you try and explore these aspects of the character it all falls up short with, "well, I'm not a priest I can't tell you why we think that." and "Pfft, im a nobleman, I dont have to explain anything to you." Or if they are the local Chaplain, "Well I doubt your religion could explain it better." I agree, Dominians are cool and I'd like to see them around but the Loredevs have propped up a major theme yet done nothing more to make it deeper than a pond, you can't expect players to make up Dogmas for a centralized Church as well because we run into the issue of them all disagreeing with each other as I have seen. The religious element of them just sticks out like a sore thumb and other religious lore escapes this critique because usually the religion is not a central theme or the religion itself does not claim a Monopoly on truth. All in all, the Dominians would be 20x better if they were less edgy theocracy and more edgy techno-fascists. At least then they can maintain the same condescending/antagonist attitudes with much less contradictions. Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 18, 2018 Author Share Posted June 18, 2018 also I know I said "retcon" but my gameplan is for a failed revolution to happen and have all these changes occur progressively so that it doesn't disrupt existing character concepts too much, as I know people love that and I don't want to completely erase their accomplishments. They just have to pick sides, but it'd be arguably much more interesting seeing ex-Dominians of all shades and colors for various reasons. It'd be funny to see an Ex-tribunal and an Edict Breaker in the same room looking at one another and seeing how pointless it all was for the both of them. There'd arguably be MUCH more justification for them to come in droves to Tau Ceti being still loyal to the religious governance that Dominia once was. Their main language is also TCB too, so basically they're gonna find it easier to integrate in terms of a communication standpoint. Link to comment
Snakebittenn Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Genuinely, for the same reasons Snake lists off, I think it'd be better for the Tribunal to begone. The United Empire of Moroz would solve a lot of things making Dominia a meme to players. Link to comment
MoondancerPony Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 The tribunal doesn't even have to be and shouldn't be completely removed. They could be exiled and living in some system, the frontier, in a ship hiding between Sol and Moroz, etc. This would allow for great conflicts between nobles, Tribunal supporters, and Edict Breakers. The main thing is that the Tribunal is being decoupled from the United Empire of Moroz; it doesn't have to stop existing entirely. The United Empire of Moroz could be compared to 16th-17th century politiques, absolute monarchs, and/or Realpolitiks. They either weaken, consolidate and control, or remove (organized) religions and churches that they consider strong enough to depose or revolt against them. A failed revolution by the Tribunal would allow both to become larger players on a major scale; another state could harbor the Tribunal, recognizing them as the official and exiled governmental authority of Dominia, while others could recognize Emperor Boleslaw as the sole authority. Also, the concept of an elective dictatorship/monarchy (as opposed to a hereditary one, so Boleslaw could just pick his successor if he had no heirs capable/worthy of taking the throne) is really interesting, tbh. Anyway, uh, my main thing is that a monarch sharing power with a religious authority has never ended well in history. One or the other has attempted to overthrow their 'partner', and either they've succeeded or they get exiled, deposed, etc. I just think that this happening to Dominia would do more to bring it into the world stage, because "religion vs state" is a conflict that lots of characters can relate to- the Maraziite Order oppressing various non-Sk'akh sects, for example. And supporters of the Hegemony would likely start being concerned about the increasing power of the Maraziites, and the Sk'akh church would probably have some concerns about the Hegemony attempting the same with them. It wouldn't necessarily have to lead to any changes, since I'm sure they could solve their differences peacefully enough, but it would definitely get a lot of people thinking about Dominia and the state of things in the lore as a whole. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 When is the last time you read the entire wiki page for Dominia, by chance? Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Today to read the revisions that were done a day earlier. Link to comment
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thank you. What do you think about them? What makes your app superior to these revisions and their impact on the whole? Would you rather destroy the tribunal entirely or provide feedback to tinker the faith into something more satisfactory? Link to comment
Scheveningen Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 The latter, really. I want to provide a more progressive approach now that I've read it and moreover my discussions with Zundy and Pegasus. My response in proposition is less to destroy them entirely but manifest them in a way that makes them become its own polarized faction that contributes to divide the Dominian populace on a singular issue: The sovereignty of man over God, or the sovereignty of God over man. This isn't to say that you can't be religious anymore and instead of implementing the banishment, I'd like if there were more political conflicts between the Church and State. Industrialist-Materialistic Zeal vs. Religious-Traditionalist Zeal. Both factions would still be united to #HateSynths since it's one of the most uniting issues given how ironically barbaric they see the action of a synthetic being built to imitate life. Everything else would make Dominia a more polarizing concept where you fall into one of two groups: the grimdark industrialists that subscribe to the silent belief of the Emperor that all exist to contribute to a singular empirical whim in producing an efficient, long-term stable society (with the Tribunal's help, if necessary, and if not then they are a threat), or that of the Tribunal, which posits that the only unity the Dominian people can find is in God above all else. Link to comment
Azande Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 I really enjoy the religion, if you change it - I will have to delete my forum post and quit playing my priestess. Which would be sad. Link to comment
Coalf Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 [mention]Scheveningen[/mention][mention]Zundy[/mention] please elaborate if this thread is to be continued, mi amores. Link to comment
Zundy Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 It's been taken into consideration for future arcs related to Dominia. It can be locked as far as I'm concerned unless schev wants to add anything? Link to comment
Coalf Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 OP cannot post and told me to lock. So locking and archiving. Link to comment
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