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[Resolved] Staff Complaint - Neinbox


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BYOND Key: VTCobaltblood
Staff BYOND Key: Neinbox
Reason for complaint: I don't know what to put here.
Evidence/logs/etc:
Dionaea are the least played race. Actually, they were the least played race. Now that three Dionaea mains that I've known (BurgerBB, EngineersDream and LordPwner) are gone from the server, they're a completely unplayed race. Here are race stats from the last two weeks that confirm this.
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One. A diona has been played one time over the last two weeks. It's pretty much safe to say that except these three people, nobody played them. 
A factor that I feel contributes to this very strongly is that their lore is bland and pretty much dead. They are not involved with other species except Skrell. There is not much you can write about them, since they are "mysterious alien observers". They have little to no reasons to work a 9 to 5 on a huge research station. Frankly, I'm all for removing them (since people seem to not like antag Dionaea, and therefore it's probably not wise to make them an antag race). But this is a complaint about Neinbox and not a suggestion to remove Dionaea.
Neinbox is about as rare as a Phazon on the lore writers chat. Here is the amount of posts on the staff server from Nein over this month.
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For comparison, here are the amounts of posts from lore developers which I consider the most active. Over the same month.
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Here is, say, amount of posts from Jam, who also posts pretty rarely.
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Unlike Neinbox, however, Jam can be seen in-game pretty often, and when talked to, they talk about lore with quite some enthusiasm. What about Nein? Nein moved to Citadel and isn't shy about that fact there. Screenshots courtesy of Paradox.
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Nor does he cover up the fact that he cannot work with other lore staff, and even has the server muted. 
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Or that he immensely dislikes current lore.
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Here is a fun encounter that I remember. There was an ongoing discussion in #lore_writers where a bunch of lore people discussed species blurbs. Neinbox pops up to provide valuable input on... how much he hates Aut'akh, and how Unathi as a whole are now just reskinned humans.
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There could be also some more concerning stuff here, but that server has since been deleted, and I have no screenshots. Perhaps Nein will talk about it.
I have approached Jackboot with Neinbox's inactivity before. He told me that Neinbox is involved in some very secret work with Bygone. Now that a few months have passed, I have issues with this. We are a lore team, and the idea of keeping things secret is actually just a little bit terrible. Particularly when a person does nothing but secret work, and is a main maintainer of a species that has no deputies.
I don't think this person should be a species maintainer. A deputy, maybe. But Dionaea are in a very very pitiful state right now, and we need someone to actually work on correcting that fact before involving themselves in secret arcs.

 

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So, I'm not going to be shy about saying that I'm rather bitter about this complaint. I know that we tend to butt heads a lot, but this is a bit different for several reasons.

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Dionaea are the least played race. Actually, they were the least played race. Now that three Dionaea mains that I've known (BurgerBB, EngineersDream and LordPwner) are gone from the server, they're a completely unplayed race. Here are race stats from the last two weeks that confirm this.

"I do not control the rate at which players use a race." This can be argued against me, sure. But so far I've been working, as you have heard, on a large project with Syntax as well as sorting out my life after a major event happened. Players are more than welcomed to contact me for any reason especially if it is about Dionae, and I'm open about such.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Neinbox is about as rare as a Phazon on the lore writers chat. Here is the amount of posts on the staff server from Nein over this month.

Here's the thing about this: No one else's lore involves my species, and thus me, and vice versa. I have nothing of value to add to the conversation and there is no need for me to. If there is ever anything that involves me, people are free to ping me in which they have, otherwise I have no say. Especially when the staff chat is 80% memes half the time in between. I'm not going to waste my time nor anyone else's by posting anything on the server in discussions that are irrelevant to me. Should I just post a single "k" to show that I do occasionally check/lurk the channel once in a while to check for anything relevant to me- which I do actually do- and to remind everyone that I still exist? Would that be satisfactory? Frankly, I find it a waste of time as it does not contribute to anything.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

What about Nein? Nein moved to Citadel and isn't shy about that fact there. Screenshots courtesy of Paradox.

This. This is what upsets me. That was posted on another server completely unrelated to Aurora. This isn't the first time I've had someone dig up any kind of dirt they can since the first incident was on a private friend server that wasn't open to the public and things were presented to Jackboot in PM's out of context, and now it is being done publicly. I am allowed to have personal thoughts and opinions, and I can do so while still continuing to create for Aurora simply because I enjoy doing so. I can disagree with something and still move on my way and continue my work like an adult. Note that this was done outside of Aurora's server and actually on CITADEL'S server. People were asking me why I came to play there and I told them. Is that a crime to confide in others on an unrelated server in a non-demeaning way? That I simply just didn't agree? And what if I did leave for a bit to play on another server because I wanted a break from it because I found some things overwhelming or upsetting to a point? Am I not allowed to do so?

And yes, posting things from another anything is bad. I'm a volunteer. This is not a job where you can go digging into someone's facebook and personal information for any kind of reasons to get dirt on them and reasons to have them fired. That's frankly creepy and shallow that something inoffensive that I said was taken from a different server just as that: to add more dirt on me. Did I shit-talk Aurora? No. I simply said I disagreed. I also moved because for a while I was actually experience an extreme discomfort with playing for a separate reason; I was taking a break from playing for a while on Aurora because a traumatic event in my life has made me experience anxiety due to the fact that it was associated to something that had previously caused me severe distress even though I was using the game as an escape. Was that so wrong of me to do? Call it fake, I just didn't think I needed to tell anyone the reason simply because no one needed to know due to how I was still stressed over it, but I guess I need to now. But I was still able to do lorework because it wasn't associated with the trauma. If you want me to further elaborate on what this trauma is, I'm going to have to refuse for personal reasons.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Nor does he cover up the fact that he cannot work with other lore staff, and even has the server muted. 

Another thing that pisses me off, and no, I'm not going to be shy about saying so. This is a screenshot that is being posted out of context, and so I am being forced to elaborate since I am purposefully being shown in a light that's casting me to be a villain like before.

I was having a discussion with Paradox, yes, the one that was more than happy to provide you with the dirt on me from the Citadel server which they also play and are an active lore contributor which I am not, about giving changelings healing stings which I believed goes completely against the nature of changelings because they are meant to be a predatory species, not a friendly doctor with a panacea injection. They also stated that they wanted 'lings to have an arithrazine sting to be exclusively effective against Dionae just because after I asked if 'lings feed off of Dionae. They also wanted to have an EMP sting for synthetics, but there's no way that would've worked- it was all more or less to "balance" the species. But the thing about the game is that not everything is going to be "balanced" mechanically. Sometimes you're going to have to rely on your own with to solve a problem which should be encouraged for a HRP server, because as far as I recall only medium to low RP servers rely solely on mechanics.

I've always had a problem talking to Paradox on anything even relatively serious, and would usually end up with arguments. This is sadly well known and is my fault for having arguments with them in public areas in the first place. These arguments would happen frequently with him and a few others on some topics in the staff discord, and getting tired of getting stressed by the constant conflict I asked JB if I could either leave or mute the channel to help reduce the conflicts responsibly because I have the tendency to check any discord with unread messages, even if I don't comment on them. I was given permission to do so. But even if I mute and do not comment because again, nothing really pertains to me or the species when it comes to other's discussions, I still do check in and lurk on occasion so I don't miss out on too much, and it doesn't seem like I don't at all in the first place.

And when it comes time to actually work with other lore staff when I am needed, make no mistake, I put the past aside and do my job to work as best as I can with them. Do people have to get along all the time with everyone? No. That's an impossibility and you're going to end up working with people you don't get along with. But a part of being an adult is still being able to work with them, and I can and do.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Or that he immensely dislikes current lore.

Please note the emotes. That's me being sarcastic. Do I have trouble with playing humans because of the lore? Yes. Is it because I hate their lore? No. It's because I get a little confused sometimes with it, with all the big corps and everything with their names and what they do. Also, I personally am bored of being a human and would much rather be something else for a bit. The same goes for me "giving up on the rest of the lore". I'll do my best to remember it, but sometimes I just give up because there's a lot of little details to remember when you have a character from every species, so I've benched them for a while until I feel up to playing them.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Here is a fun encounter that I remember. There was an ongoing discussion in #lore_writers where a bunch of lore people discussed species blurbs. Neinbox pops up to provide valuable input on... how much he hates Aut'akh, and how Unathi as a whole are now just reskinned humans.

This is where I personally have difficulties with you. You take everything I say, and immediately think it's a personal and unfounded attack on the person and their work. This, as I apparently have to re-assure you after several other times in another server that you left, is not the case. Once more, I am allowed to have personal thoughts and feelings. But the point of that discussion was in fact a critique. Whenever you do anything artistically- including creative writing like making lore- and posting it in the public, you are opening yourself up to critics. There are negative, neutral, and positive ones. What was going on there was a discussion of concerns and I was stating mine as a critique. I sincerely feel that the Auk'tah should not have a place in the lore considering several points that several others agree with me on, and I feel that they were added for the wrong reasons. If you take a longer look, you will see that I am not actually sitting there and saying "Auk'tah are shit and we should lynch the dev responsible for this bull crap". No, I was stating a valid concern that I wanted answers to. It was not, contrary to your belief, an attack.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

There could be also some more concerning stuff here, but that server has since been deleted, and I have no screenshots. Perhaps Nein will talk about it.

I won't, because that was in a private server that you have since left and was a place that I felt I could confide in others in seeing how it wasn't an official or otherwise related Aurora server. I should be allowed to talk with friends on a friend server about whatever I want. I mean seriously, am I going to be monitored on what I say in real life about something? Let me restate that it was a private friend server. No one had any business monitoring it for dirt. Someone has already taken screenshots from there and shown them to JB out of context for the sole purpose of getting me in trouble, and I have since cleared it with Jackboot. That person by the way, broke two rules or so of two different servers. Because it has been cleared up, the issue should not be revisited as it has already been handled.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

I have approached Jackboot with Neinbox's inactivity before. He told me that Neinbox is involved in some very secret work with Bygone. Now that a few months have passed, I have issues with this. We are a lore team, and the idea of keeping things secret is actually just a little bit terrible. Particularly when a person does nothing but secret work, and is a main maintainer of a species that has no deputies.

I have been working with another lore dev on a rather large project for the both of us, and so far we have been trying to plan ahead of how we would like it to go before we get our ducks in a row, put it down in a document, and show it to the rest of the team for review. There has so far been no major action that we have done yet outside of a few smaller things. Life also tends to get in the way sometimes, but make no mistake. We are in fact actively working on something. Storyboard. Cleaning up. Presentation. Execution. It's only been "secret work" because we've still been trying to figure it out, but since they've been fleshed out more we are confident enough to put them down on paper. We have just recently talked about presenting the rest to the staff and are doing that step now. The community won't know about it until when it happens, but the lore team will soon enough.

 

12 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

I don't think this person should be a species maintainer. A deputy, maybe. But Dionaea are in a very very pitiful state right now, and we need someone to actually work on correcting that fact before involving themselves in secret arcs.

Ironically, the arc is me working on their low numbers.

 

If I'm going to be honest here, I feel that this purely just assumptions and accusations. Not once have you DM'd me your concerns which you were free to do. Not once did anyone when they were free to do so. I know you and Paradox are on the same bandwagon to get me booted and were working together to do so. Neither of you are shy in your dislike for me and/or my work. With you? Whenever I say or critique something, you always take such great and personal offense to it when others that were involved in the discussions told you that I was not in the wrong and in fact fine, that it wasn't me making an attack on anything be it a joke or something serious. This has happened several times. I don't hate anyone. I can dislike their decisions and maybe the way they treat me, but I personally don't hate anyone and I don't intend to offend anyone. But right now you've gone out of your way to gather "incriminating evidence" that is posted without context publicly and from places that are not related and/or should not be mentioned here without ever personally bringing up your concerns to me so I could clarify with you, and that is making me rather bitter at the moment.

If anything I said here is out of line or wrong let me know, but this complaint was poorly presented and I've had a long day.

Edited by Neinbox
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14 hours ago, Neinbox said:

Here's the thing about this: No one else's lore involves my species, and thus me, and vice versa. I have nothing of value to add to the conversation and there is no need for me to. If there is ever anything that involves me, people are free to ping me in which they have, otherwise I have no say. Especially when the staff chat is 80% memes half the time in between. I'm not going to waste my time nor anyone else's by posting anything on the server in discussions that are irrelevant to me. Should I just post a single "k" to show that I do occasionally check/lurk the channel once in a while to check for anything relevant to me- which I do actually do- and to remind everyone that I still exist? Would that be satisfactory? Frankly, I find it a waste of time as it does not contribute to anything.

Just recently we had a massive project that involved virtually everyone in the lore team, the offworlders. Almost everyone contributed, no matter what race they are technically attached to. You basically provided zero input besides playing a minor volunteer role in an event, despite being a main species maintainer. Same with a lot of projects, actually - a lot of loredevs work on a lot of things that are not just related to their race, and don't technically "involve them". 

14 hours ago, Neinbox said:

This. This is what upsets me. That was posted on another server completely unrelated to Aurora. This isn't the first time I've had someone dig up any kind of dirt they can since the first incident was on a private friend server that wasn't open to the public and things were presented to Jackboot in PM's out of context, and now it is being done publicly. I am allowed to have personal thoughts and opinions, and I can do so while still continuing to create for Aurora simply because I enjoy doing so. I can disagree with something and still move on my way and continue my work like an adult. Note that this was done outside of Aurora's server and actually on CITADEL'S server. People were asking me why I came to play there and I told them. Is that a crime to confide in others on an unrelated server in a non-demeaning way? That I simply just didn't agree? And what if I did leave for a bit to play on another server because I wanted a break from it because I found some things overwhelming or upsetting to a point? Am I not allowed to do so?

And yes, posting things from another anything is bad. I'm a volunteer. This is not a job where you can go digging into someone's facebook and personal information for any kind of reasons to get dirt on them and reasons to have them fired. That's frankly creepy and shallow that something inoffensive that I said was taken from a different server just as that: to add more dirt on me. Did I shit-talk Aurora? No. I simply said I disagreed. I also moved because for a while I was actually experience an extreme discomfort with playing for a separate reason; I was taking a break from playing for a while on Aurora because a traumatic event in my life has made me experience anxiety due to the fact that it was associated to something that had previously caused me severe distress even though I was using the game as an escape. Was that so wrong of me to do? Call it fake, I just didn't think I needed to tell anyone the reason simply because no one needed to know due to how I was still stressed over it, but I guess I need to now. But I was still able to do lorework because it wasn't associated with the trauma. If you want me to further elaborate on what this trauma is, I'm going to have to refuse for personal reasons.

 

Exactly, you are a volunteer. Nobody forces you to be here, yet there is a limited amount of loredev slots. If the server causes you anxiety, you disagree with where it is going, and you would prefer playing somewhere else, why are you still occupying your position? Why haven't you even opened deputy slots? That's the main point I am making in this complaint; everything else is secondary. 

14 hours ago, Neinbox said:

This is where I personally have difficulties with you. You take everything I say, and immediately think it's a personal and unfounded attack on the person and their work. This, as I apparently have to re-assure you after several other times in another server that you left, is not the case. Once more, I am allowed to have personal thoughts and feelings. But the point of that discussion was in fact a critique. Whenever you do anything artistically- including creative writing like making lore- and posting it in the public, you are opening yourself up to critics. There are negative, neutral, and positive ones. What was going on there was a discussion of concerns and I was stating mine as a critique. I sincerely feel that the Auk'tah should not have a place in the lore considering several points that several others agree with me on, and I feel that they were added for the wrong reasons. If you take a longer look, you will see that I am not actually sitting there and saying "Auk'tah are shit and we should lynch the dev responsible for this bull crap". No, I was stating a valid concern that I wanted answers to. It was not, contrary to your belief, an attack.

That is completely not what I'm talking about. The thing is, the input you have chosen to provide in weeks is not even critique, it's just "Unathi aren't good anymore" which was only tangentially related to the topic at hand at the time. If you actually had productive input at other times, that would be fine. Suddenly popping up out of nowhere with it isn't.
By the way, you're the one who made it personal.

14 hours ago, Neinbox said:

With you? Whenever I say or critique something, you always take such great and personal offense to it when others that were involved in the discussions told you that I was not in the wrong and in fact fine, that it wasn't me making an attack on anything be it a joke or something serious.

If only you actually ever said or critiqued something. Our interactions pretty much end with the end of that server, and a thing you pinged me with recently when I was talking about skrell lore. Which I didn't take any offense to despite it being a mild criticism of my work.

I will let Paradox speak about other screenshots if he so wishes.



Now as to the cheeky announcement, a PR involving Dionaea that was made recently, and what Jackboot told me. While I am somewhat glad that the complaint actually got you to do something, I fear that this minor boost of activity will end, and you will be absolutely inactive again. You've been inactive since my tenure in staff began, which is I think about four-five months ago. I just can't see you picking up a new pace so suddenly. And I also seriously don't see why you can't be a deputy instead of a main species maintainer if you truly enjoy working on lore so much, which I have my reasons to doubt. This complaint was not made to demean you or to say that you're a bad person; simply to point out that you are inactive and seemingly prefer playing another server. Considering the race that you are supposed to maintain is basically dying, something needs to be done about it.

I will refrain from further replies until someone chooses to handle this complaint.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

I am going to handle this complaint with @Mofo1995. I am posting this reply on my phone so you know i see and am handling it. I will briefly go over the key points.

This complaint is awkwardly timed at a moment where Mofo and myself are actively addressing the concerns brought forth with assigned schedules to follow and more oversight.

I do not have a policy against playing on other servers in itself. Getting on the staff of another server and developing for them can be problematic because Skull takes a serious view on this  in itself whereas I focus on the sideaffects developing for another server would have - diminished activity, conflicts of interest, etc. Elohi being on another server and the screencapped comments were already handled and to touch on them again would be double jeapordy.

On their inactivity in lore chat, this too was addressed. There is a big emphasis on the random stream of consciousness conversations that happen in the chat by certain members. They were given permission to mute the channel because to be fair it gets fast paced and intense for people. There are a plethora of means to contact fellow staffers outside of the lore chat. 4,000 posts in lore chat isnt too important to me when a lot are "lol" and "wtf" and "bet" etc.

In general we are addressing inactivity with a new method of oversight and deadlines to help lore developers sliding into inactivity to have a way to come back into activity. Removal from my team is always a last resort; i hate booting anyone who contributes creativitly.

Is anything unaddressed?

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4 hours ago, VTCobaltblood said:

{N}ow as to the cheeky announcement, a PR involving Dionaea that was made recently, and what Jackboot told me.

If memory serves, PoZe has ran quite a few, upwards of 3 - 4, PRs regarding Diona over the past 4 months actually. Which is not a bad number. Though the matter of, "Who notices these if no one plays the race" remains, one would suppose.

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On 21/04/2019 at 13:25, VTCobaltblood said:

Just recently we had a massive project that involved virtually everyone in the lore team, the offworlders. Almost everyone contributed, no matter what race they are technically attached to. You basically provided zero input besides playing a minor volunteer role in an event, despite being a main species maintainer. Same with a lot of projects, actually - a lot of loredevs work on a lot of things that are not just related to their race, and don't technically "involve them". 

I didn't participate in contributions to add simply because I had nothing to contribute, and if I recall, it was during a more difficult time in my life and thus couldn't focus on anything more than what I could handle. The event came around more or less after all the discussions and when I was adjusted. If I have no input, I'm not going to post a "k". And I'm not going to scroll through the past 24 hours every day of lorechat through the memes and other things for actual important things that I might have missed and that I might have input on. No one has any time or will to do that.

On 21/04/2019 at 13:25, VTCobaltblood said:

Exactly, you are a volunteer. Nobody forces you to be here, yet there is a limited amount of loredev slots. If the server causes you anxiety, you disagree with where it is going, and you would prefer playing somewhere else, why are you still occupying your position? Why haven't you even opened deputy slots? That's the main point I am making in this complaint; everything else is secondary. 

Allow me to repeat that playing the game used to cause me anxiety. The keyword here is used to. I have been trying to re-acclimate myself, and also have to repeat this, have recently chosen to play a round not because I was required but simply of my own free will. As for deputy slots, there have never, ever been deputies in the past and from what I can recall deputies in other servers. Dionae, at this moment, are currently not involved in much and do not need to be either while I work on this project. They aren't supposed to be. They will be, and after I'm done I will add a deputy, a single deputy, but until then I have something that requires a lot of focus and work. No, it is not distracting me, it is simply that Dionae cannot lore-wise become involved in anything else because it is distracting them.

On 21/04/2019 at 13:25, VTCobaltblood said:

That is completely not what I'm talking about. The thing is, the input you have chosen to provide in weeks is not even critique, it's just "Unathi aren't good anymore" which was only tangentially related to the topic at hand at the time. If you actually had productive input at other times, that would be fine. Suddenly popping up out of nowhere with it isn't.
By the way, you're the one who made it personal.

I have talked extensively with others and from what I can recall with JB to as of why I do not like the Auk'tah in which you were not around for. To me they don't make sense and that was my more or less final official statement on the whole matter. I cannot critique the species anymore simply because it would require a mass rework and not a single person is up to that, which is understandable. That's all there is to it.

And yes, it is personal because this is the second time I am dealing with an eerily similar situation to something that was incredibly distasteful in the past. Accusations are being made, and not once have you come to talk to me in an attempt to soothe your concerns and instead choose to assume.

On 21/04/2019 at 13:25, VTCobaltblood said:

Now as to the cheeky announcement, a PR involving Dionaea that was made recently, and what Jackboot told me. While I am somewhat glad that the complaint actually got you to do something, I fear that this minor boost of activity will end, and you will be absolutely inactive again. You've been inactive since my tenure in staff began, which is I think about four-five months ago. I just can't see you picking up a new pace so suddenly. And I also seriously don't see why you can't be a deputy instead of a main species maintainer if you truly enjoy working on lore so much, which I have my reasons to doubt. This complaint was not made to demean you or to say that you're a bad person; simply to point out that you are inactive and seemingly prefer playing another server. Considering the race that you are supposed to maintain is basically dying, something needs to be done about it.

Believe it or not, this had absolutely nothing to do with you. Absolutely none. To claim that it was because of your actions- is that really something to be proud of? And to call my actions cheeky as well? To sit there and claim that I'm just going to be inactive yet again as yet another baseless assumption? Need I remind you, and man, I am really feeling like a broken record here because I am really needing to repeat literally everything in my previous post, I was experience a trauma in my life and has since been recovering from it. Is my public activity going to drop off? Of course. But just because you don't see me being publicly active doesn't mean that work isn't being done with the species. That was at a very, very low point in my life and you are assuming that I'm like that normally. Hint: I'm not. No one has yet to see me at my peak, and everyone is about to. But this is a lot of assumptions and accusations coming from your end, and it is very unbecoming and incredibly upsetting to me. We could have had a nice chat in private where I could have explained to you otherwise and reassure you that things are moving on nicely, but here we are.

Am I being short about this? Yes. I'm decently upset for once. I don't care much for how scary complaints are to others, I understand they're a middle ground for everyone to meet and peacefully discuss matters. But to me, this is a lot coming from someone who recently joined the team and doesn't have any idea what's going on with my behalf and instead of waiting for a document from Syntax and I or bothering to contact me you go all out and ask for my demotion. That doesn't leave a very good taste in my mouth.

Edited by Neinbox
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On 21/04/2019 at 15:03, Skull132 said:

If memory serves, PoZe has ran quite a few, upwards of 3 - 4, PRs regarding Diona over the past 4 months actually. Which is not a bad number. Though the matter of, "Who notices these if no one plays the race" remains, one would suppose.

True. Here are all my PRs related to Diona. One of them is a bugfix to my fuckery, so do not count that. Plus one more PR right now open that will fix problem of Diona being too slow and keeping it balanced. 

 

Screenshot_20190423-180553.png

Edited by PoZe
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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Sorry for the delay.

I talked with Neinbox. A deputy isn't needed at this time. Mofo and I are confident that the new method of a schedule based program will help steer activity in the right direction and give us a proper metric as managers to figure out when things are going in a direction that we do not like. We have already seen some benefits in giving this coherent plan of action.

Actions have been taken to address all the other concerns present in this thread. Unless anyone else has more to add, this will be considered resolved and closed in 24 hours.

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