Staff Complaint - Goret

[IGBASteve]

BYOND Key: IGBASteve
Staff BYOND Key: Goret
Game ID: b1i-b2G1 (for the latest one)
Reason for complaint: This staff member gave me a week long ban for "powergaming" (I was carrying around chloral hydrate as a chemist) just a bit ago (Which was ridiculious but I didn't want to make too much of an issue about it so didn't complain at the time), and as soon as I get off that ban (which was later reduced to a three day ban) they give me a permenant ban for "Being agressive in LOOC", but I wasn't agressively insulting anyone at all, all I did was ask why a certain character was shitseccing me every round we where in together, I wasn't making any kind of accusation towards her own personal moral fiber or trying to make them feel crap, I just wanted to know why I'd been shitsecced four times by them, every round I've been with them in. I was also ahelping to try and get someone done about the shitseccing, but the admin chose to do nothing about it, instead punishing me for having the gall to be upset at being shitsecced.

I feel this is a prime example of the procedures and checks put in place to uphold justice completely and utterly failing, the admin who was supposed to stop me from getting griefed instead turning around punishing me for having gotten griefed, it's incredibly upsetting. I really wanted to get along with Goret after the first incedent even though I didn't feel it was fair to have gotten punished for carrying chloral hydrate as a chemist and I've been trying to be friendly with them, I really feel hurt that after I swallowed my pride to try and offer a hand of friendship he's still treating me like trash and validhunting punishment on me.

[Shadow7889]

I was the one that issued the permaban at the request of thegoret, who is on trial currently. Just from my standpoint, and do inform me if I'm out of line here. Your use of LOOC during the round involved calling the ISD ' shitsec ' insulting other players, and basically being toxic as a whole. Your notes are vast, and this seemed the best course of action. Not to be rude, but you need to own up for your actions. Honestly.

[Juani2400]

Hello.

As I've told you privately, I conducted a brief investigation on this case before this complaint was available for everyone to read, as it is normally the case for moderator trials. I read through all the logs, and let the trial team know about it. We found no issue on Goret's judgement, as far as their trials go. You've got an intestering history, and as I told you, you had an active "don't fuck up" clause from your previous unban appeal (here), and it played a major factor in this ban happening. I will leave it for Goret, and the rest of the involved parties to discuss this publicly here.

 

[IGBASteve]

I would agree that I have gotten very firey in the past when I first started on this server, and threw around a lot of abuse at players who I felt wheren't playing security in a very pleasent way, I've since apologised for having done that and in all my rounds since I've been trying to my best to limit my langauge when it comes to OOC chat.

I would say that in this round (The one in which I got permabanned) the only thing I said was the fact that they where being shitsec, I wasn't throwing abuse at them, just stating what they where doing and requesting they would stop doing it. I apologise for my toxic behavior in the past but I feel I've put that behind me since.

Edited May 17, 2019 by IGBASteve

[Pratepresidenten]

The escalation to a permaban here was well justified. You've accumulated a large amount of notes, warnings and bans in your short time here. Every time Ive seen you online, you've gone hard at any member of security that has detained you, both in character and in looc, insulting their character, their playstyle and them as a person. Security doesnt usually pick on people without reason, and in all the cases, you've gotten yourself in trouble one way or another.
Even the round in question, you were questioning the HoS, how shit they were and how they could even hold a whitelist over looc.

Ive had long talks with you, and I really hoped you would come around and ditch your bad habits, but it seems that none of that took root. Permabanning is our last ditch effort to curb a player's behaviour in a matter, and here we are.

I do not really have anything else to say about the matter.

[Goret]

Hello. I'm going to give my thought on this situation.

I wouldn't have any problems with you during that round if you hadn't started to have a bad comportement about what you recieved in game. Right, you made a grenade full of potassium and water and it exploded at your face. This is really borderline, but still, I passed on that as another admin had took this matter in his hands. When you started to complain about to scream shitsec in LOOC, is the moment it took me off. I told EVERYONE on the scene to cease arguing over LOOC, and everybody dropped the subject... Expect you, that ahelp'd right after. What happened to you was purely fair from a roleplay point of view, you made a grenade in a job you weren't supposed to, and exploded with it. This is completly fair for security to arrest you for your actions. Keep in mind that it is also an escalation of your previous notes, warnings, and ban, and that a large warning has been set that the next offense would be a perma ban. Also, do not think that banning someone is something fun for me. But when the rules are being broken so much time in a lapse of not even 2 weeks, you must understand that something need to be done.

PS: Sorry for the format, I wrote quickly on my phone.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Goret

[IGBASteve]

Wether or not security usually display shitsec like behaviors doesn't change the fact that where displaying them to me, I don't know if it's becuase I pissed this player off or becuase I'm new or whatever other reason it might be that they're doing it but them "not usually doing it" doesn't help me at all when they're doing it to me. I'd also like to repeat that being arrested for creating an explosion is perfectly justified and I didn't feel that part was shitsec in the slightest, something I explained to you in game, my issue was with them arresting the surgeon that was operating on me -during the middle of surgery- and almost killing me by hauling me off to the brig whilst I was still bleeding to death and making me argue with them for five minutes whilst I was bleeding out in order to covnince them to let me get back to med so I wouldn't die, all of which was done after I had said to security "I'm happy to cooperate and explain everything that's happened, just as soon as I'm done getting surgery". This combined with this asshole IC play and the HoS going out of her way to be as demeaning and degrading to my character as possible was why I was asking them to stop shitseccing me.

I feel I should also say, when I accidently blew up the grenade I was making (To give to sec so they could do some live fire training with their cadets, as I've done in previous rounds without issue) I ahelped to explain the situation and to ask if I'd done anything wrong in a server rules sense, to which I was told it was purerly an IC issue. I'd also like to point out that Goret only told me to drop it in LOOC (Which I did), Goret didn't say anything about not ahelping the issue, and if you had an issue with my ahelping the issue you should have just said so, not ban me.

You say "so many rule breaks in two weeks" but what do my rule breaks actually ammount to? Carrying around chloral hydrate as a chemist? Asking security to not shitsec me in LOOC? Yes, my behavior in OOC when I first joined the server was unnaceptable but I made sure to change how I've been talking and how I phrase my criticisms becuase of that (Much in part to that conversation I had with Pratepresidenten, please don't feel nothing came from that, I appreciated you taking to time to talk to me). I feel that my rudeness when I first joined was my only serious offense and I don't feel a permaban is in any way apropriate for what I've done.

Edited May 17, 2019 by IGBASteve
spelling mistakes

[Goret]

They arrested the "surgeon" because they were an intern. They bashed you several times with their surgery tools, and didn't even put anesthetics on. I spoke to them about that and the issue has been resolved. They shouldn't have attempted a surgery on you. I kinda understand the harsh security behavior with you since everytime they interacted with you, you were rude or did something bad ICly. You have a really long history about arguing over LOOC and screaming "shitsec" all around. Do not think that because you're ahelping, you're immune to any sort of punishment.

You were banned for powergaming as an escalation of your previous warnings. You have been told on your unban request that the next problem will be a direct escalation to a permanent ban. This is all I have to say from my point of view. 

[IGBASteve]

The intern was the closest thing we had to a surgeon, and if I didn't have surgery done on me I was going to die, of course the intern is going to be the one doing surgery and it doesn't justify arresting him half way through his work becuase he didn't follow procedure when someone was literally dieing.

Someone being rude to you doesn't make it okay to shitsec them, and I never claimed that becuase I'm ahelping I'm immune to punishment, I just want something to be done about the shitsec.

Literally every single one of my bans has been a "Hey, we know this isn't actually justified but becuase of escelation we're going to go ahead and do it anyway", I get you've got procedures and stuff but when your procedures lead you to banning someone who's sole crime is being rude in OOC once a while ago, then your procedures need to be looked at. Carrying Chloral hydrate and asking people to not be shitsec are not permabannable offenses, and if your procedure is leading you to think that they are, then something has gone horribly horribly wrong.

The fact that you're not able to realise that yourself really points further to my suspiscion that you're valid hunting, my situation is only permabannable in the most technical of senses, and just becuase you technically can doesn't mean you should.

Edited May 18, 2019 by IGBASteve

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Alright, after looking through pretty much all of these comments, reviewing your notes and warnings, along with the last temporary ban you received, I have to say I agree with Prate and Juani. This ban is ultimately justified. I hate that this seems like dog-piling, but you asked me for my opinion. 

In the last complaint/appeal you made regarding the week ban, I specifically stated that if you didn't clean things up, you would most likely be permabanned. I think that Goret is in the right, though, I do encourage you to make an appeal whenever you find yourself to be ready to return. 

[IGBASteve]

Allright, that's enough people (Including people who I respect the judgement of) saying I'm wrong for me to feel like I should stop arguing, ban is justified. Please look kindly on the appeal I inevitebly end up posting a month or two down the line!

[Flamingo]

Locking and archiving.