Staff Complaint - Yonnimer

[AmoryBlaine]

BYOND Key: AmoryBlaine 

Staff BYOND Key: Yonnimer
Game ID: b1B-afZ9
Reason for complaint: Allowing poor conduct and facilitating the desires of combat oriented play, rather than RP.

When the b1B-afZ9 TCFL decided that being denied a chance to fight the ninja wasn't going to stop them from getting a chance to fight something, they ahelped to be antags. Yonnimer made the judgement to authorize their antagonistic behavior. This isn't something I think staff should be doing, given it opens the door to allowing any spawned ERT to ahelp for antag status, if their chance at fighting antags is denied. I would really like to know why exactly this ERT was allowed to be antags. Was it because no one else has ever had the gall to ask if they can force combat and become the antags themselves before, or if it was simply because Yonnimer had a bias towards these specific players, or felt the round had stagnated in some way after the round antagonist had died. I have no real faith that Yonnimer will actually be discipled in any form, nor that this will be considered an offense- but I do think that at the very least his, and the teams behaviors are worthy of recording, for future instances of similar behavior.

[Yonnimer]

Hi, just to say my reasoning for the legion being allowed to become antags, exactly.

During the round, the ninja of the round started to show some hostilely to crew, and a ERT was called. This was deemed jumping the gun a bit on calling them due to all of security still standing, and being fairly armed. So much so they killed the ninja on their own. The legion was requested to hold back a few minutes(roughly 16-17ish) due to the early call for them.

Some time later, someone(i think a traitor) suggested the idea, legion approved. One of them ahelped, requesting that they could become antags, I approved due to the reasons stated earlier. They weren't given approval in the thought they would just start fighting again, it was meant to be a escalated situation, hopefully with more then just fighting. 

[StationCrab]

As a player in that round (as F.R.E.N.) from my perspective ERT was called too early, and the antag exploded very early in the round. It made sense to add some sort of Antag to spice things up, and the ERT team arrived after the Antag detonated if I am not mistaken. Therefore I feel the authorization was the right call, how the new antags handled things could have been a bit better perhaps, I was really unclear as to why they were suddenly blowing things up, but admittedly I was not with them most of the time when it was happening. If anything the fault is with the antags themselves, not Yonnimer authorizing them to be antags in the first place.

 

TLDR: From my perspective the admin made a good call using the ERT team as antags in a round that stagnated way earlier than intended. ERT was called too early, and using them made sense since they were already arriving.

Edited June 5, 2019 by StationCrab

[Dark1Star]

Thought I'll share some light on this, we were all standing around waiting for the go-ahead to go down and help fight the Ninja (I was Vol. Fazer), but the ninja died after about 15 minutes of us waiting. So we were standing around going "Now what? Just ghost?" I came up with an idea in AOOC saying we should be antags, role play it as this is the 8th time this week that we've been called and were not needed in the end, we were running low on money and resources, I asked everyone if they would be okay with that, going to the station and getting resources. Everyone in TCFL agreed and even some traitors agreed.

I A-Help and ask if this would be okay, shortly after Yonni gave us the green-light. We go down to the station, our goal was to come in peacefully, and then escalate to get what we wanted, which was some stuff that was worth money to re-claim our losses. We land, we go inside the airlock and we're stuck inside command. At this point we ask over radio for them to let us in, they said we were not needed anymore and one of us was already inside, (he was not apart of us, so I assume he was a traitor) the captain asks us to disarm our selves and only one of use be let in, at this point my comrades were getting a little ticked off at our time wasted, the AI proceeded to suddenly bolt all the doors around us, trapping us even more and making us at un-ease.

The captain still refuses to let us in, and then security start coming with laser rifles, armor and all that jazz. At that point, our prefect used C4 on the wall to force his way in, then the AI closes the blast-doors trapping him between rooms, he then uses the last of his C4 on the blast-door to escape, security at this point are ready, guns also at the ready. We make our way through maintence, to the outside of command, where we find most of security and command, our prefect instantly hold Thea at gunpoint as we all walk out of the maint tunnel.

At this point it's a stand off, securiy has their guns pointed at us, and our guns pointed at them, I am not /one-hundred-percent/ sure on who fired first, though I do believe security did something and then we all started firing, in the end we all stopped fighting and we were all taken to medical. Then I assume the traitors started attacking everyone also.

 

That sums it up, our original goal wasn't to start fighting, but un-fortunate circumstances caused us to show some hosilities before we even got out of command.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Dark1Star

[AmoryBlaine]

3 minutes ago, Yonnimer said:

Hi, just to say my reasoning for the legion being allowed to become antags, exactly.

During the round, the ninja of the round started to show some hostilely to crew, and a ERT was called. This was deemed jumping the gun a bit on calling them due to all of security still standing, and being fairly armed. So much so they killed the ninja on their own. The legion was requested to hold back a few minutes(roughly 16-17ish) due to the early call for them.

Some time later, someone(i think a traitor) suggested the idea, legion approved. One of them ahelped, requesting that they could become antags, I approved due to the reasons stated earlier. They weren't given approval in the thought they would just start fighting again, it was meant to be a escalated situation, hopefully with more then just fighting. 

I don't feel this justifies it, at all. Given that the ninja was killed taking out an Officer, entirely because of the ninja's own aggressive behavior towards the station and "no quarter" attitude. Also, as I now understand this WASN'T a traitor gimmick, but a gimmick made up by one of the TCFL, DarkStar, as stated above.

4 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

I came up with an idea in AOOC saying we should be antags, role play it as this is the 8th time this week that we've been called and were not needed in the end, we were running low on money and resources, I asked everyone if they would be okay with that, going to the station and getting resources. Everyone in TCFL agreed and even some traitors agreed.

 

6 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

The captain still refuses to let us in, and then security start coming with laser rifles, armor and all that jazz.

The only one to leave and actually acquire a different weapon was myself, as I went to get the shotgun if things went poorly. The Captain gave a energy pistol to one of the officers and the other had a .45. Afterwards I gave a carbine which I had to the officer with the energy pistol.

7 minutes ago, Dark1Star said:

We make our way through maintence, to the outside of command, where we find most of security and command, our prefect instantly hold Thea at gunpoint as we all walk out of the maint tunnel.

At this point it's a stand off, securiy has their guns pointed at us, and our guns pointed at them, I am not /one-hundred-percent/ sure on who fired first, though I do believe security did something and then we all started firing, in the end we all stopped fighting and we were all taken to medical. Then I assume the traitors started attacking everyone also.

Spoiler

 

 

This is the initial shot, by your team, at us after you had C4'd the doors and started a breach. And below is what happened when KingofPing misfired trying to smash the beepsky unit. So no, Security did not shoot frst, whether the TCFL had accidentally fired or not, because even so, you had prior fired on us, as we stood looking at you through the doors. Specifically at an officer only armed with a .45.

Spoiler

 

Can someone explain why they felt a need to fire on that officer, if the intent was to escape into maintenance?

[ComradeCorbyn]

I was the Prefect. And let’s begin.

We started the round with 20 minutes to spare after we prepped up, so naturally we all went AFK awhile to return and someone suggested that TCFL gets involved as an antagonist to spur more role play after the death of the primary antagonist. Multiple traitors and members of the TCFL agreed and it was a helped. And, it made sense due to the nature of the TCFL as a mostly undisciplined force looking for the thrill of battle.

We boarded the station and we waited for entry, although nobody answered so we destroyed the windows in order to make our way to the air locks to be seen and our complaints addressed.

It was at this time the AI saw us and bolted everything around us, and then security first showed up with weapons drawn, visible from my scope. Bad start. They holstered and soon practically the entirety of security was at the bridge, including most heads of staff. Odd why the entirety of Security would respond. None the less, we talked and the Captain tried to have only one of us leave the group and head off for some menial task. I rejected, mostly due to the fact and equipment of the TCFL making desperation impossible - especially with only three people, and with what seems like the station not at all trusting us. 

It only got worse from there and we continued to argue, I made some funny quips, and finally my Prefect, a hothead, has it and placed a C4 as a sign that would injure nobody yet show that I wasn’t just bullshitting. Afterwards, the AI had the bright idea to close the lockdown on me and trap me from my team. I got pretty PO’d at this, and in reply shot a warning shot to prevent them from capturing me alone. I sprinted away once I C4’d the lockdown and we left through maintenance to try and outmanevour them and escape while they presumed we were still there. However, we encountered the Captain alone with another guard and we believed we could take him hostage there. We were wrong, and a firefight ensued causing multiple wounded and one death. Oddly enough, Carmichael was killed in this engagement as well mostly due to a pepper spray grenade by his own team.

I permitted a cease fire over radio and allowed for wounded to be treated on both sides. I knew I was about to die due to lung damage, heart damaged, and shrapnel in the chest. I ordered to take the Captain hostage while we were treated by their medical department so we weren’t taken captive while undergoing surgery. The captain fled and we were ultimately too wounded to fight back. I disconnected due to poor internet at this time, and thus why I’m writing this on my phone. 

EDIT: I believe you were also the one who made quite inflammatory comments in DChat, just an interesting observance.

Edited June 5, 2019 by ComradeCorbyn

[AmoryBlaine]

2 minutes ago, ComradeCorbyn said:

Oddly enough, Carmichael was killed in this engagement as well mostly due to a pepper spray grenade by his own team. 

Yes, they both for some reason really wanted to try and teargas you guys, even though you all had literal space suits on, and for the entire duration of our contact with you, it was either extremely close to one another, or through locked doors for both sides.

4 minutes ago, ComradeCorbyn said:

someone suggested that TCFL gets involved as an antagonist to spur more role play after the death of the primary antagonist. Multiple traitors and members of the TCFL agreed and it was a helped. And, it made sense due to the nature of the TCFL as a mostly undisciplined force looking for the thrill of battle.

How come no one can remember the reason you guys decided to board as traitors, nor whom suggested it. Everyone is giving conflicting responses on this, and it really cements my thoughts that the priority here was making sure that the TCFL being called wasn't just going to spend the rest of the round ghosted or talking with the crew. Mind you by the time we started fighting it was already 2:00, evident by the vote during the fight and you had arrived probably around 1:45 or so. So it wasn't as if the Ninja was killed at the 30 minute marker, or something. They went down at 1:36 I believe, though I may be wrong. This complaint is directed at Yonimmer so I'm more interested in why he thought approving the TCFL to attack the station so late in the round was a good idea, after the main antagonist had died.

[SatinsPristOTD]

I can give a small bit of insight to the reason they came so late.

DarkStar is in my Discord server, and AIMMO, Dark and I were in a chat. (Both AIMMO and I had cryo'd with no intent to return, so talking with Dark about it didn't break any sort of meta). Dark stated they had to wait for an RP opportunity to enter. Right when they got the go ahead to do this gimmick, a radiation storm hit. They wanted to wait until it was over.

[Garnascus]

This seems like a highly unusual call to make if for no other reason than it makes absolutely no sense for our lore. The Legion are not a group of monkeys looking to shoot first and ask questions later. They are a group of trained volunteers who joined the legion to serve the republic of biesal. There is absolutely no reason a force employed by the republic of biesal would start attacking a nanotrasen owned space station. 

 

On 04/06/2019 at 23:43, Yonnimer said:

They weren't given approval in the thought they would just start fighting again, it was meant to be a escalated situation, hopefully with more then just fighting. 

I understand you certainly had good intentions with this. I do however think that it is a little unreasonable to assume a force of antags equipped with strong weapons and good armor are not going to use them. Like, logically what was most likely to happen here? It is certainly acceptable for administrators to add new antags to the round but in this case the legion should have just been offered the chance to join as an actual merc team so as to not break lore. 

[Dark1Star]

5 hours ago, Garnascus said:

I understand you certainly had good intentions with this. I do however think that it is a little unreasonable to assume a force of antags equipped with strong weapons and good armor are not going to use them. Like, logically what was most likely to happen here? It is certainly acceptable for administrators to add new antags to the round but in this case the legion should have just been offered the chance to join as an actual merc team so as to not break lore. 

Again, it wasn't our goal to use the weapons or armor. It's just that a major F-Up when we were trying to get rid of beepsky so he didn't attack us, a wepaon went off accidently, then security fired at us, so we in-return, fired back. It wasn't our goal to have it end up in a huge shoot out.

[Garnascus]

19 hours ago, Dark1Star said:

Again, it wasn't our goal to use the weapons or armor. It's just that a major F-Up when we were trying to get rid of beepsky so he didn't attack us, a wepaon went off accidently, then security fired at us, so we in-return, fired back.

I know it just doesnt matter. Like what is most likely to happen when you grant a fully equipped team antag status? Exactly what happened. Someone is going to misfire a weapon somehow or security is going to interpret something as a threat and then it all spirals out of control. Its just whats going to happen when such a powder keg situation occurs. 

[Garnascus]

So, TLDR here is..... dont make TCFL antags because of reasons stated. 

[Garnascus]

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