Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, BoryaTheSlayer said: Yet most who have posted here said you are making a stretch and that they only thought of it that way after seeing this thread. So, you are the one interpreting it that way. Most people who have posted here also agreed that we can just change the red patch, accent, line, whatever. Its about roughly even between the like, 9 posters. @BoryaTheSlayerdo you WANT them to be interpreted as brownshirts? Because they will continue to be so with this sprite.
Doc Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 What about just making the identifier black instead of red? @AmoryBlaine It might not look quite as striking, but it's still necro aesthetic and it would match the little nametag/label thing.
AmoryBlaine Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Doc said: What about just making the identifier black instead of red? @AmoryBlaine It might not look quite as striking, but it's still necro aesthetic and it would match the little nametag/label thing. That's what I'm thinking it'll have to be, at this point.
BoryaTheSlayer Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Sounds good to me. Or maybe dark brown as someone else suggested here. That might be more aesthetically pleasing. Idk.
Brutishcrab51 Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) @AmoryBlaine Don't change a thing. It's fine as-is. I personally feel that this is misguided at best and grasping at straws at worst. The uniform is only equitable to brownshirts if you squint real hard and ignore the Soviet appearance. The uniform is literally this minus the obvious political insignia, Edited December 19, 2019 by Brutishcrab51 Image addition+
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 The argument i would be persuades by is if the parallel is intentional in order to show quickly how evil Necropolis is. In which case I'd find it crass but consistent within my "space fascist aesthetic" argument from page 1. At every single turn everyone involved has said that necropolis isnt intended to at all come across as brownshirts. Ergo the themeing of the uniform has created crossed wires. Its irrational to invalidate interpretation of the uniform as a brownshirt uniform because it puts off all the signs of intentional themeing. People are going to keep looking at it and seeing brownshirts. You either need to admit the theme missed its mark and change the uniform or accept the uniforms theme as intentional in design to keep it. Otherwise the irrational arguments that its fine and dandy are just presuming its arguerers view to be the correct one by virtue of status quo. Like im still here saying its a brownshirt. And ill keep saying it because thats how i interpret the art youve created. If you want to correct the themeing and aesthetic the uniform needs the simple change to be more like something else.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 It's valid that you see a soviet aesthetic in the uniform. I cant wait to see your thread asking to retcon the PRA. Youve been pretty chill with them since you started on the server so this sudden swing is really suprising.
AmoryBlaine Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, BoryaTheSlayer said: Sounds good to me. Or maybe dark brown as someone else suggested here. That might be more aesthetically pleasing. Idk. Taking out the colours, makes it a barely modified version of the brown jumpsuit. The accents are what make it a Necropolis uniform. @Marlon Phoenix I'm not going to change the red accents. I have shown that within the context of this game, these sprites, nearly all uniforms have the same type of accents. If you are choosing to interpret the uniform as SA-esque, go ahead.
Brutishcrab51 Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said: like on one hand... yeah.... but like "evil black space fascist uniform" is pretty mundane. It's been co-opted to just stand in for an "evil space fascist" which I guess is on brand for necropolis sec. To make it after the one that the SS stopped using because it was too tacky is way too on-brand of that specific cringe movement I must also draw your attention to Spoiler Star Wars directly modelled the Galactic Empire after Nazi Germany. This is obvious in the stahlhelm-style of Vader's helmet and the fact that DLT-19's which Sandtroopers used on Tatooine were literally MG42's. Also in the comparisons between Imperial uniforms and Nazi-style uniforms. The same can be said for draws between Necropolis and the USSR, but not draws between Necropolis and Nazi Germany. The USSR is also still a faction in our lore. The one that Necropolis is HQ'd in. You can't ignore that just because you think it should be retconned. It hasn't been, so it's relevant still. Addition: I've got no problem with [g]ommy cats, only problems with red herrings. Necropolis has brown and red and black and red because it fits their eastern European style and because the USSR never fell. Edited December 19, 2019 by Brutishcrab51 Additions
Doc Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Marlon Phoenix said: You either need to admit the theme missed its mark and change the uniform or accept the uniforms theme as intentional in design to keep it. No. No, we don't. The fact that you want this to happen does not, by any means, mean things have to happen that way. This is a childish demand for others to do things based on your declarations which are, one, certainly not shared by even a majority, and two, not consequential enough to 100% warrant the actions you are demanding. The sprites are fine as they are. They do not need change based solely based on the arguments you have presented. If the popular opinion changes, then perhaps minor adjustments that have previously been mentioned can be implemented.
BoryaTheSlayer Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Understandable, Amory. 16 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: Its about roughly even between the like, 9 posters. @BoryaTheSlayerdo you WANT them to be interpreted as brownshirts? Because they will continue to be so with this sprite. "Roughly even". Idk how you got that. I would've nicely compiled all the posts so far saying "this is a non-issue" or "remove the armband" but it's 1 AM and I think you're a big boy and can look through the thread yourself. No, I don't, but ultimately it's a person's choice to interpret something in a specific way. So, knock yourself out, interpret it however you want, it doesn't matter, not to me. Edited December 19, 2019 by BoryaTheSlayer quotation marks
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Doc said: No. No, we don't. The fact that you want this to happen does not, by any means, mean things have to happen that way. This is a childish demand for others to do things based on your declarations which are, one, certainly not shared by even a majority, and two, not consequential enough to 100% warrant the actions you are demanding. The sprites are fine as they are. They do not need change based solely based on the arguments you have presented. If the popular opinion changes, then perhaps minor adjustments that have previously been mentioned can be implemented. Please try to remain civil in this discourse. I find calling me childish to be unproductive. I respectfully disagree with your argument. Your minor changes can be the alt uniform amory provided.
KingOfThePing Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Spoiler This is obvious in the stahlhelm-style of Vader's helmet and the fact that DLT-19's which Sandtroopers used on Tatooine were literally MG42's. Also in the comparisons between Imperial uniforms and Nazi-style uniforms. We still use MG42's to this day by the way. It's just called MG3 today, lmao. Am I a nazi now? We also still sing (almost) all of the same marching songs.... Edited December 19, 2019 by KingOfThePing forgot the quote
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, BoryaTheSlayer said: Understandable, Amory. Roughly even. Idk how you got that. I would've nicely compiled all the posts so far saying "this is a non-issue" or "remove the armband" but it's 1 AM and I think you're a big boy and can look through the thread yourself. No, I don't, but ultimately it's a person's choice to interpret something in a specific way. So, knock yourself out, interpret it however you want, it doesn't matter, not to me. I don't waaaaanna look through the thread uuuuuuuggggggggghhhhhh there's been like 9 people and not all of them say its invalid. I'm not like alone in thisnl interpretation. It was a group of people commenting on how there was a sudden spike in brownshirt sec being buttheads and then i saw the comparisons and went "yikes is this intentional to necro or" then found it wasn't.
AmoryBlaine Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: Please try to remain civil in this discourse. I find calling me childish to be unproductive. I respectfully disagree with your argument. Your minor changes can be the alt uniform amory provided. I may not change it at all, given how you're wanting to perpetuate and spread your interpretation.
BoryaTheSlayer Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Who is this group and why have they not posted?
Brutishcrab51 Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 I can't share your concerns on this, Jackboot. Butthead sec exist regardless of uniforms. If anything, I would suggest more red highlights for the uniform. Put some on the shoulders and wrist-collars.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Thats fair. No one can forced you to change your art.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, BoryaTheSlayer said: Who is this group and why have they not posted? I can't read minds. Is their opinion invalid for not participating in thia specific thread?
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, BoryaTheSlayer said: Okay. So is this closed then? We have more spriters than amory and the loremaster said he would like to see a change.
BoryaTheSlayer Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Marlon Phoenix said: I can't read minds. Is their opinion invalid for not participating in thia specific thread? I find it hard to acknowledge they exist. All I have to go by is you saying there is a group that spurred this on.
Kintsugi Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Shenaanigans said: I honestly don't see what the big issue would be to just remove the armband or otherwise tweak the uniform in a way that takes it that step away from "nazi adjacent." Like. Whether or not you personally think the uniform screams NAZI COSPLAY or not, the fact of the matter is someone was made uncomfortable by the resemblance and I see more people in here trying to cry "wHy ArE yOu CaLlINg Me A nAzI sUpPorTeR" than being sympathetic and saying "okay, let's make a tiny change to fix this". Seriously. The pushback to this very politely put concern is what's making this thread into an argument, not the concern itself. I think we can all agree that a new player coming in here and seeing a sec uniform as resembling a nazi uniform, and drawing conclusions about our server based on that, would be a bad thing. So just make the tweak. We should not remove innocuous things because one person makes a connection in a way that makes them uncomfortable. I, for one, am deeply uncomfortable with themes of mind control. I think cortical borers, vampires, and loyalty implants are fairly terrifying. A friend of mine is extremely arachnophobic. The giant spiders are nightmare fuel, for them - and this makes sense, considering they do such scary things as "lay eggs in living people". The Soviet Union was a genocidal, tyrannical entity. Should we remove the Soviets? The Soviet uniforms that you can wear ingame? The Tajara's dominant political faction is a pseudo-nazbol entity that decries homosexuals as subversive alien-brainwashed degenerates. Should we change the Tajara to make people more comfortable? Because I know for a fact that some people aren't fans of this.
AmoryBlaine Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 No, this isn't about it being my art, given I already made an alternate version- it's about the fact you're going to try and maliciously tear at it because you've interpreted it in a way that makes no sense given the context. You want to try and make it so everyone on the server views it how you do, in order to push for the change you want. You're not showing off the two versions, you're trying to attach a connotation to the current uniform.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted December 19, 2019 Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, BoryaTheSlayer said: I find it hard to acknowledge they exist. All I have to go by is you saying there is a group that spurred this on. I guess its fair to think I'm lying if you believe I'm that kind of person. Ill ask them to post but I won't force them.
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