Severly Trim Down In-Game Tobacco Products

[Kaed]

There's way too much shit, and a lot of it just doesn't make sense for us to have on the server, for one reason or another.  Even ignoring the sort of uncomfortable sense that we have turned the server's tobacco machines from a flavor object dispenser to a front for the full range of products available from the tobacco industry (something that is extremely controversial even today), I'm not not entirely certain the people who added all these new products really stopped to think about the plausibility of their existence.

-Tobacco is plant product native to Earth, back in Sol. It is frankly lazy writing to create 'tajaran' and 'unathi' tobacco plants, as if every planet evolved a tobacco plant on it.  Adhomai is way too cold to support classical tobacco in the first place, it's a warm climate plant, so they sure as heck didn't import it from earth then start cultivating it then import the product again back to human-controlled systems.  If you think there's a plausible reason that they would have their own recreational drug plant, sure, develop some lore for that, but give it a localized, lore-compatible name and nature instead of just being magical cat and lizard tobacco.

-Chewing tobacco is disgusting and messy.  You can't swallow it or the tobacco juice-filled spit it fills your mouth with, or you get really sick. This is why spittoons existed, and why there is absolutely no plausible reason why we should be selling it in a futuristic workplace that is supposed to stay clean.  If you really want to add non-smoking version, add something snuff-related, which is something you just sort of tuck a bit of into your cheek or lips and leave there.

-We don't need all these brands.  They're excessively redundant, clip it down to maybe 2-3, preferably removing the ones that are meme references to actual tobacco products, such as 'dromedary Co' and 'Lucky strike" (that one isn't even an altered joke name, it's literally an existing IRL brand name. Are we on British American Tobacco's payroll now?) Maybe 1-2 snuff brands, tops.  We only need one brand of rolling paper, they're functionally identical as far as I can tell.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Kaed

[PoZe]

14 minutes ago, Kaed said:

Tobacco is plant product native to Earth, back in Sol. It is frankly lazy writing to create 'tajaran' and 'unathi' tobacco plants, as if every planet evolved a tobacco plant on it.  Adhomai is way too cold to support classical tobacco in the first place, it's a warm climate plant, so they sure as heck didn't import it from earth then start cultivating it then import the product again back to human-controlled systems.  If you think there's a plausible reason that they would have their own recreational drug plant, sure, develop some lore for that, but give it a localized, lore-compatible name and nature instead of just being magical cat and lizard tobacco.

Not true. It is possible to import Sol tobacoo and genetically modify it and mix it's DNA with native planet plants DNA to make it survive harsh environments. As such the plant will have unique flavor.

 

But generally I am against encouraging tobacoo usages, especially since our server have teens. But that can also be applied to space drugs and alcohol, blah blah. So I am not even sure if it's bad to have it in this game.

Edited December 23, 2019 by PoZe

[Kaed]

5 minutes ago, PoZe said:

Not true. It is possible to import Sol tobacoo and genetically modify it and mix it's DNA with native planet plants DNA to make it survive harsh environments. As such the plant will have unique flavor.

 

But generally I am against encouraging tobacoo usages, especially since our server have teens.

Fair, but why would they do this when they can sell unathi and tajara the earth-style tobacco products directly for a higher profit? It's not really a sensible long-term corporate decision for profits.  Both races, tajara especially, are being explicitly exploited by humans to one level or another, and I doubt the proud secular unathi would want to start cultivating alien plants on their planet.

And I agree mostly with your second point, but I'm trying to be diplomatic on the subject of tabacco.  The sheer amount of them is making them a thing that seems normal and acceptable, and that makes me uncomfortable.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Kaed

[AmoryBlaine]

Perhaps we should come up with new names for brands?

[Snakebittenn]

Revamping the Unathi brand is something I will get around to, after finding an interesting alternative. However, the PRA ciggies are specifically something Alberyk added, so he must know what he's doing re; tobacco on Adhomai and such. Different brands are nice for roleplay, some people might prefer different brands (if we can ever get around to being able to afford them.) However, 'chew is gross' is really, really personal taste. We don't have a rule against being gross.

[Coalf]

9 hours ago, Kaed said:

Even ignoring the sort of uncomfortable sense that we have turned the server's tobacco machines from a flavor object dispenser to a front for the full range of products available from the tobacco industry (something that is extremely controversial even today)

Could you expand on this? I don't see how dispensing tobacco products is antithetical or somehow in conflict with "flavor object dispensing" since those products are likewise, just there for flavor.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

There is supposed to be a monopoly on cigarette which is why the price is so high. Alternate brands if available should only be gained through illicit means.

[Alberyk]

Tajaran tobacco is made from S'rendarr's Hand, not from the earthen plant.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Also the Sth brand is being removed.  Unathi dont have tobacco. 

[Kaed]

58 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

Tajaran tobacco is made from S'rendarr's Hand, not from the earthen plant.

No it's not, the object in question is labeled as low-grade tobacco, and contains the tobacco substance. Make it dried s'rebdarr's hand if you want to make that claim.

2 hours ago, Coalf said:

Could you expand on this? I don't see how dispensing tobacco products is antithetical or somehow in conflict with "flavor object dispensing" since those products are likewise, just there for flavor.

When it was just one generic brand of cigarettes, the purpose of it's existence was to give you an object to put on your character's face. It served its purpose perfectly fine, and was largely under the radar do to cigarettes being a cultural icon anyway.

With this expansion of tobacco products you have shown a spotlight on the tobacco industry as a concept, even creating lore about as a competitive, exploitive industry, adding the context of all of these cool new brands you can use and have your character espouse benefits of, while including none of the controversy and problems for long-term tobacco use due to it being just a roleplay/game mechanic in this scenario.

As PoZe I said, there are people that play this game that are not adults, and the presence of implicitly positive display of tobacco products in a visual medium attended by non adults is a controversial subject. Were our server to be rated by the ESRB, we would have just jumped up the maturity ratings with this additional content.

And sure you can mock this as pearl clutching if you want to, but you still have to take a moment to consider the greater implications of legitimizing an irl industry which has documented history of causing a great amount of suffering and death in your video game.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Kaed

[Alberyk]

3 minutes ago, Kaed said:

No it's not, the object in question is labeled as low-grade tobacco, and contains the tobacco substance. Make it dried s'rebdarr's hand if you want to make that claim.

The only tajaran smoking stuff are the chewing one and the cigarretes, they don't have any with dried leafs.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I agree with kaed. Tobacco is a really primitive habit and while a few products fufilled the noir aesthetic for detectives expanding it without leaning in on the industrys cruddy ways is really cringe.

Since people want to make tobacco really cheap again we are basically making cigarettes a mary sue industry.

[Coalf]

Partially agree on the tabacco spread thing, it is lazy for aliens to just "have" tabacco, I think it should be even more expensive than sol tobacco.

The rest of the argument is laughable and irrelevant. The idea that someone is going to get inspired by Space Station 13 to do something in real life isn't a question of age but mental health.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The idea that artists have zero responsibility about how their art can affect people is irrational.

[Coalf]

The words "This will literally kill you" are writen on cigar packets, I don't think a 2d sprite with a stick in his mouth is going to bring you over the horizon.

If you want to take this argument seriously, we're going to have to trim 80% of lore due to fantasy violence, sexism, racism, inappropriate satire and inappropriate sexual references along with....
Dare I say it.

Swearing

[Coalf]

Don't forget the impossible ideals that a bachelors degree is enough to get you a job on a space station. Or that you can survive in space for more than 10 minutes.

[Coalf]

The fact you can respawn, also very fantastical and very dangerous for kids. They could hurt themselves and think they'll just respawn later.

[Coalf]

Oh my god I completely forgot that our player models display male and female genitalia!

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Ok, boomer. Theres a difference between reincarnation and making smoking cool. All i asked is to make sure their usage isnt portrayed as cool. Smoking is socially the same as sniffing farts.

[Coalf]

I think it's Ageistic that you believe anyone who is capable of not only roleplaying on aurora, but playing/finding SS13 in general would have such a low amount of fantasy/reality inhibition that they would start smoking due to their character smoking.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

That wasn't the argument i or kaed made. You are being alarmist.

[Coalf]

You are being an alarmist.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Nuh uh youre being an alarmist. 

[Coalf]

no you

[GreenBoi]

We've had cigarettes for years ingame, we swear, we have drugs and alcohol ingame. Why are we acting like it's a problem now? This isn't even related to the topic. These threads are starting to get ridiculous now with some of these requests.

 

Now, for stuff actually pertaining to the suggestion at hand. I think that the number of cigarette packets are fine and offer a great variety for different species. The rolling paper? I think that should be reduced to a singular brand because, as Kaed said, there are no mechanical differences AND you cannot give much roleplay from different types of rolling paper. Even with different cigarette packs, you could link it to corporate loyalty, cost, or feeling- not much you can do with rolling packs.

 

I actually agree with the chewing tobacco bit- it can smell and unlike normal gum, it has to be spat out and take up place and look extra disgusting because it's tobacco and I think that's something a place the Aurora wouldn't want. Some other, more lowlife NT facility? Definitely would allow, but the Aurora? No. I don't think the Aurora would allow tobacco past a cigarette.