[NBT] The Service Manager - New Quartermaster?

[Diggey]

I have talked in the Discord about this but really wanted to bring this to the forums for discussion.

The Quartermaster role on the Aurora station was always intended to be a command position without a whitelist

Just like the Head of Security it is not any more mechanically dense to be the Quartermaster than to be a Cargo technician, than to be a Security Cadet.

There is some new mechanics but it is mostly about having a good grasp on these mechanics and beeing able to have a fun time managing everyone's workload.

 

Now we get to the crux of my arguement. Which I have not made yet.

The Service Manager controls the Chapel, Janitorial, the Library, Botany, Bar, Kitchen, to a limited degree Assistants, In character Events like birthdays holidays or other celebrations as well as providing a link between command staff and Service staff as the paperwork machine. (Just like a QM who ideally has to stamp all your documents you lazy fuckers)

 

These departments are all Incredibly mechanically dense

They aren't all difficult, but there is a lot of mechanics.

other mechanically dense roles include the Research Director or the Chief Medical Officer (or the Chief Engineer)

Most of the time these roles need to know every mechanic in their department to help their interns along in becoming self governing. And their mechanics are often a lot more precise and difficult to actually know 100% about and why they work the way they do.

The issue is the Service Sector does not have interns, so any one of them may need help without a big green label on their chest.

I could see how Quartermaster was not a whitelisted role earlier but Service Manager has a lot on their plate that other non-whitelist roles do not.

You need to know (roughly) :

Spoiler

 

1. the various faiths represented on the ship, how to hold a funeral, how these rites differ between the various species and the recent events of every species and how that may affect the crew
2. where everything in the bar is and how to mix a couple xenoappropriate drinks (don't wanna put Chilli in your water or accidentally poison a unathi with Ethanol or a Vaurca with nutrients) as well as more complex recipes for bounties (Reminder you are ideally the person to order things from the OM because you got the Departmental budget ICly)
3. a couple easy recipes to make without the use of fresh produce like breads and donuts and such as well as more complex just from the ingredients on hand so people can RP their dinner without having to go to the vending machine, the use of the Condimaster and some quick condiment recipes that are easy to follow, as well as recipes for bounties and when to give your Kitchen crew a guestpass to make up for a lacking gardener/ order things for them from the OM like livestock  (Reminder you are ideally the person to order things from the OM because you got the Departmental budget ICly)
4. you gotta know where you can go and the basics of replacing lights, but you also gotta teach the newbie how to repair a Vending machine that has been Rampant Branded as well as order resupplies of metal sheets or glass in case of explosions or traitoring, the Janitor is also responsible for some of the stuff engineers do, such as replacing busted APCs and such (Reminder you are ideally the person to order things from the OM because you got the Departmental budget ICly)
5. You gotta know the very basics of plantcare, when to water, when to pour in nutrients, how to harvest using th plantbag, how to fill the fridge. I have had multiple people I taught struggle with this, also the grocery list the kitchen sends is usually overwhelming for new players. Not to mention the use of the Chemmaster and Biogenerator they have and which plants are good for the biogen (apples) and which plants are bad for the Biogen (tomatos)
6. How the Library works. This doesn't sound like a lot (and people usually do not notice the difference between a bad librarian and a good one) but you still gotta help the guy
7. And in general how to communicate with departments and how to assign assistants. Communication between departments is hard, many people are very socially awkward (Reminder you are ideally the person to order things from the OM because you got the Departmental budget ICly)

a SM has to handle 12 players 7 of which are bald with a random name and 2 of which are traitors also the barman doesn't know where the alcohol is and the Janitor just went SSD inside the crusher while the Cultist round just started inside their chapel

 

I love the idea of a SM not beeing command staff.

That is great.

and interim role without the sway or power.

We know for a fact that the department can function without one, because that is how it used to be, but just how the Cargo department can work without a QM the Service Department does without a SM.

I just don't think that such a mechanically dense role is good to give access to without a Whitelist.

 

A SM has full access to botany, and their chem master and syringes, the kitchen and freezer, the bar and their toxins and janitorial access to half the station as well as access to the bridge through the kitchen stairwell.

I am not saying the role is too overpowered to be given for free but I am saying exactly that.

it is rife to be exploited for griefing and too important to be handled by someone who doesn't know their shit

I have experienced bad SMs as my bartender character (the reason why I wanted to make her a SM) and the role really sucks to other players when the player in charge doesn't know their shit.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Diggey
QM is not actually the head of Cargo

[Boggle08]

Most service departments are either easy to figure out or are self autonomous. The departmental culture is far less belligerent than cargo. The XO has one less department to juggle in their headsets, so if something does come up, they're able to give it more attention. The SM doesn't have to try to pull rank or authority as hard as the QM did(think bounties and yield reports), because your job is really just to make sure everyone knows what they're doing, and aren't flagrantly blowing off work. I feel like the role is useful to me as an XO, because I can delegate most of the management to them, and occasionally step in if something comes up.

About the breadth of the SM's mechanics, much of what service does is what people do around the house, like cooking and cleaning. While most of it in and of itself isn't rocket science, I don't think its a hard requirement to be a spectacular master of everything. Maybe just the kitchen. There are some Quartermasters that never fuck with mining's mechanics, or know just enough to get a new one started and out the airlock.

The other thing is that the SM position isn't nearly as consequential as other roles that don't even have any authority on the ship. Fucking up at managing isn't the same as fucking up a patient in medical and they die, or someone botching the Supermatter round start and ending it at 00:30. Compared to some of the other jobs here, the SM is practically an inconsequential RP role. This balances out their authority.

[Diggey]

4 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

This balances out their authority.

Well I am not arguing that they should have more authority.

I want them to have this exact amount of authority.

but I am arguing that it is a pretty large role to be giving out freely.

6 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

think bounties and yield reports

Well the Service Department also handles bounties and if the other departments wanna play along you can also ask for more outlandish things.

The reason this doesn't come up is because no one has done it, but that doesn't mean no one SHOULD do it.

 

8 minutes ago, Boggle08 said:

is what people do around the house, like cooking and cleaning.

While you are 100% correct ICly you gotta remember that these mechanics represented in the videogame are not simple-.

I am arguing not for a SM beeing put up the line of command I am arguing that this low respect role still needs moderation as to who is allowed into it.

[Boggle08]

I think it's fine without a whitelist, just because of how little impact they have over rounds. This is a Quartermaster equivalent, except it doesn't have nearly as many problems. The most mechanically complex service job I can think of is the kitchen, then maybe a toss up between the bar and the garden. We can trust people to use brainmed without a whitelist, I think we can trust them on this too.

[Myazaki]

Like Boggle said, the jobs it oversees are non-critical from a game mechanics perspective (they can all be collectively replaced by two vending machines) so I don't think the SM needs a whitelist for it being necessary to ship function, like the other departments. 

Cooking and systems that are difficult mechanically should instead have better wiki guides and in-game tool tips. The cooking system could also use a polish and tidy up in general. 

Library could use a tune-up as well. 

Personally I don't think the job needs to exist at all. I think people will just use it as an excuse to be a bartender-chef-gardener-janitor. 

As for grief potential, we don't whitelist scientist and that has all the things the SM gets and more, with less responsibility. 

So idk.  If it is here to stay though it should have a small office and a stamp or something. 

 

EDIT: Also if it is here to stay we could add more stuff to service to justify it. Like an IT support guy who does telecoms. Or it could have super limited ID modification powers to assign the assistants with the xo's permission. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Myazaki

[Omicega]

I have no idea what you are smoking to live in a headspace where you think service manager, of all roles, needs to be whitelisted. It's pretty hard to follow your post considering you contradict yourself a lot, but if I'm reading it right that's the gist of what you're saying? The role is barely needed as it is -- Myazaki's point about it being used as a 'super service role' is already pretty pertinent. That's all I've seen it being played as through the last couple of NBT tests, with some notable exceptions who actually gave the job a bit more flair than just using it as a lowpop do-everything bartender-chef-gardener.

It's very much a flavour role as it stands, and I think it should stay that way. I think giving it any more actual authority is a mistake -- I'm not sure service ever needed any oversight, really. It isn't the end of the world if a new player picking up chef or bartender can't 100% perfectly make all the foods or drinks right away, and I don't think encouraging little micromanagers to pick SM and hover over their shoulder is a solution to that. The HoP's hand on service was always very light, and just because SM is its own job now doesn't mean I -- or service players themselves, really, I think -- want to see one trying to run the department like it's medical or something.

I also don't think it should get an office at all. I'd rather see the vacant office stay vacant and have potential to be co-opted for individual gimmicks or antag-related things rather than be wasted on the SM.

[Diggey]

On 17/03/2022 at 15:40, Myazaki said:

So idk.  If it is here to stay though it should have a small office and a stamp or something. 

I actually made that suggestion in in here

On 17/03/2022 at 15:40, Myazaki said:

Personally I don't think the job needs to exist at all. I think people will just use it as an excuse to be a bartender-chef-gardener-janitor. 

same.

 

16 hours ago, Omicega said:

I think giving it any more actual authority is a mistake -

Again, never once said they need more authority, actually explicitly stated I want them to have the authority they currently have

17 hours ago, Omicega said:

I'm not sure service ever needed any oversight, really.

Also explicitly stated

17 hours ago, Omicega said:

want to see one trying to run the department like it's medical or something.

Yeah well see this is the consequence of not having a Service Manager, the fact that the department is heavily hands off culturally.

Things like "You know that you can't give out drinks for free right?" are seen as a hassle and not as an opportunity

Someone to look over (for example) the price sheet or to negotiate interdepartmental exchanges could really liven up the place.

What you are suggesting is someone who stands in the kitchen and does the Kitchen job, not a Manager.

if you think that the role shouldn't exist because the role isn't what the role is then I am hardpressed to agree

but that is not a constructive arguement over the purpose of the role.

[Diggey]

17 hours ago, Omicega said:

It's pretty hard to follow your post considering you contradict yourself a lot,

I am sorry if my writing is incomprehensible, where is the confusion?

[KingOfThePing]

I dont think that there is a way to express how much I agree with Omicega. Thank you, Omicega, I think you basically said what needs to be said

[NewOriginalSchwann]

I'm in agreement with Miyazaki and Omi: service manager as a role feels incredibly unneeded and ultimately tacked on. I already have to deal with middle management in my real 40 hour workweek, and I don't particularly relish having to deal with it in a video game. At no point during the NBT tests did I feel that the service manager added anything to a round, but I did often feel inconvenienced by it. Instead of getting a whitelist, the entire role should be deleted and the responsibility over service should go back to the XO/HoP.

[FearTheBlackout]

just adding my experience as someone who did play Service Manager a fair amount during the test runs and was originally an advocate for it:

i'll echo most of what was said here, but also say that it only really seems enjoyable to actually play for a certain niche audience. the various service jobs are too stratified to have a manager who can really teach you anything outside of their own field of experience, and if they can then at that point you just become a jack-of-all-trades, which is kind of lame for anyone who arrives late or gets filled in for when they're not around; therefore the Service Manager's teaching capacity is limited, and Service as a whole is, as said above, generally autonomous.

i found myself losing steam to play the role fairly quickly after i started, and even backtracked on making my bartender character into a manager like i planned, simply because it couldn't maintain my interest for long. i'd say rolling Service management back into the XO's duties would be better in the long run.

[Alberyk]

After taking in consideration feedback, what we observed during the testing weekends, and discussion in the developer team, we decided a while ago to remove the service manager role. So I guess this suggestion is pointless.