Suggested Cyborgs changes

[Chada1]

I feel like this could also be considered a form of powergaming if done but I dunno, a mod/admin would have to chime in.

Either way, it's currently just structured in the easiest to code way possible, I can make further changes to the concept, but it'll be a test of my coding ability I guess to do so, and I do like the idea of 'borgs needing to get papers for upgrades as if they were independent mechs, it makes them able to roleplay their status as equipment more with the Crew, that is overall a A++ idea IMO

There'll be another thread for this change more than likely -- where more people can give their thoughts and what to change later, rn PoZe's changes should probably take center-stage, what does everyone think about the 'borgo access changes where they're limited to just their modules department?

[Chada1]

I just wanted to say that I am still in support of the access change, but it'd be nice if we could get a testmerge on it so we could iron out the access issues we'll probably see, like borgs not having access to the machinist.

[TrainTN]

I think every synthetic should get the following access privileges: Maintenance, Machinist Workshop, and their Department. Their access within the department should be unlimited, so medical synths can enter the First Responders' room as well as the operating rooms, the engie synths can access the engine and atmospherics, science synths can access all of the research labs, and so on.

[Montyfatcat]

I disagree with universal maintenance access. Only engiborgs and rescue borgs should have that since they're the only ones that use it. Why would a service or science borg need it?

[Itanimulli]

Hopefully, once a few things get fixed, I can return to my regularly scheduled "good borg rp" and perhaps get a view on what it is that needs limiting.

As it stands, if things are as they were when I took a break [rest in piece secborgs, we don't miss the stunflash rp], I don't really think much needs to be done aside from the usual...you know...rule enforcement.

I do recommend keeping maintenance access. The borgs are, by definition maintainers. It makes no sense for them to lose that.

Losing "all access" is a bit of a different issue, I suppose. I don't really see any downsides...but I also don't see any upsides?

Edit: I'm also not understanding this whole "no personality" thing going on. Kinda ridiculous. You can have PLENTY of fun little nuances and responses to situations that both coincide with rules and do not break anything within lore. There is literally nothing stopping you from being passive-aggressive, enthusiastic, lethargic, etc etc. I'm going to chalk up the whole 'no personality' thing to a player issue, and not one that stationbounds have 'overall.' Getting rid of the pre-borg personality is a no brainer, that comes with the territory; but that by no means dampens someone's ability to play a machine running biological hardware unless that person is an incompetent writer.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Itanimulli

[Contextual]

While I'm aware it's not the topic of this particular thread, I feel the need to express my utter befuddlement at the notion of stationbound characters being rule- or law-restricted from having personalities. As well as the general opinion that such characters fundamentally cannot be "characters", cannot have backgrounds, traits, aspirations, etc... It seems, to me, a very limited and warped perspective from players who are fundamentally unfamiliar with actually playing or interacting with (well-depicted) stationbounds.

That out of the way, I also do not agree with the proposed changes in this thread.

Stationbounds, and their servile all-access nature, are incredibly valuable to the flow and quality of life in low-pop or unevenly-staffed rounds. Taking away or restricting their access, even just locking it behind a code elevation, would render them functionally indistinct from organic crew; they're meant to be, at some level, an extension of the ship itself.

The core problems which seem to be generating frustration with players in regards to stationbound appear to be threefold.

1) Certain modules are far too all-encompassing, capable of replacing entire departments in their scope and capability. This is something which must be addressed mechanically, and is incredibly simple to do so in a way that creates more options for character expression and variance.

2) Certain stationbound players have, apparently, been either permitted through inaction or expected through convention to power-game departments. This is something which must be addressed on a case-by-case basis via in-round reporting and moderation.

3) Certain crewmember players appear unwilling or unable to confront and interact with stationbounds whose modules overlap with the job of their own character. This one is just baffling, as in nearly all cases the roles in question are inherently multi-slot, and such characters are expected to have the exact same discussions with other crew members of the same profession.

Notwithstanding the effete nature of the latter two issues, there is room for improvement in the implementation of stationbound as they currently stand. Module-wise, restricting access to any one of the modules is a deeply flawed approach to a very legitimate problem. Historically, stationbound modules have seen continuous buffs, both power-creeping organic crew and also module-creeping other stationbound.

--This is exemplified in the Medical module, which possesses every tool and chemical the medbay could ever realistically need, while also possessing the tools and means to go and retrieve (or even treat) crew members out and about the ship, almost completely negating the purpose of the far weaker Rescue module in all ways but sheer (default) mobility.

--Similarly, the Engineering module can not only do every single task Engineering could possibly be called upon to do, it does so while also containing practically the exact same power tools present in the Construction module. The only true "advantage" the Construction module maintains in its specialty is the mining drill, which is functionally useless with the server's transition to an astronautical vessel. 

--Lastly, the Research module is remarkably overpowered in the hands of any competent antagonist player. Even when played normally, though, it's capable of far too many functions, from the engine to surgery to repairing and upgrading other machines. It's even capable of being selected, setting the engine, upgrading itself with all available materials, and then resetting itself into a different module of its choice!

No single thing that any of these modules can do is the problem. The problem comes from the confluence of all of these capabilities replacing entire departments. Simply locking these modules, or the capabilities they possess, behind a "progression" or "permission" system would ultimately restrict the variety of player choice and expression to an unacceptable degree. Instead of being able to play a specialized surgical robot, or a smart-cracking hull-patching maintenance crawler, or even a hyper-specialized automated engine-setup apparatus, all stationbound characters would have to be multirole generalists. All stationbound characters would have to be service/clerical/janitorial by default. All stationbound characters would be expected to be able to be changed into whatever specialty module is unlocked and expected.

Instead, the existing modules should be broken down, split apart, and nerfed. The engineering module should not be able to match/outperform the construction module in its own niche. The research module should not be able to upgrade or repair itself, let alone do most of the work of four separate departments alone. The medical module should not be the medical module.

I'd elaborate further with specific propositions on how to do this, but I feel it would be straying too far from the original suggestions being discussed in this thread, and this post is already getting long.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Contextual
Formatting.

[Contextual]

11 hours ago, Contextual said:

I'd elaborate further with specific propositions on how to do this, but I feel it would be straying too far from the original suggestions being discussed in this thread, and this post is already getting long.

My lawyers have advised me to explicitly lay out my proposed changes in this thread.

In short, the changes I propose consist of three distinct and separate methods, which taken individually or as a whole will improve the quality of stationbound play and players.

Change 1: Modules

Spoiler

Research Module

The research module consists of three distinct toolkits: That of robotics/mechanists, research, and borgification/surgery. Off the cuff, the surgical tools should be completely removed from the research module and its derivatives. The remaining tools would be split and in some cases shared between two new modules.

Spoiler

Science Module:

This module would consist of the specific tools which allow for increasing research levels and conducting telescience. Specifically omitted are the tools for chemistry, xenobotany, and xenobiology, as the tools needed for these introduce too much overlap with other modules. The means to upgrade and construct machinery and consoles are retained. The tools this module would possess are as follows.

Printing Pen
RPED
Multitool
Reagent Scanner
GPS
Emergency Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Wrench
Screwdriver
Wirecutter
Inductive Charger
Portable Destructive Analyzer
Scientific Gripper
Sheet Holder
Cable Coil Synthesizer

Spoiler

Machinist Module:

This module would consist of the specific tools which allow for the repair and construction of IPCs, exosuits, hardsuits, and stationbound chassis. Specifically omitted are the tools for surgery and borgification, as the tools needed for these introduce too much overlap with other modules. Ideally, the Nanopaste and Access Code Transmission Device would be unable to target the module using them, to prevent self-modification and repair.

Printing Pen
Multitool
Nanopaste
Emergency Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Wrench
Screwdriver
Wirecutter
Inductive Charger
Scientific Gripper
Sheet Holder
Cyborg Analyzer
Access Code Transmission Device
Welding Tool
Cable Coil Synthesizer

 

Spoiler

Engineering Module

The engineering module is hard to categorize. It contains all manner of tools, rendering it capable of conducting all roles within its department. It also already has been 'split' into two modules, so we won't be actually creating any new modules here. Instead, the changes are designed specifically to distinguish the modules from one another, while trimming down on unnecessary tool bloat. Specific mention goes to the Analyzer, which has been removed from both modules due to being available as a program on the internal computing device. Ideally, these changes will prevent whichever module is chosen from outshining engineering crew members whenever work needs to be done, another pair of helping hands instead of a problem-solving super-machine.

Spoiler

Maintenance Module:

This module, a renamed base engineering module, would consist of the specific tools which allow for station upkeep and general electrical repair. Although it is capable of assisting with hull breaches and reconstruction efforts, it is noticeably less efficient at doing so than the construction module.

Glass Sheet Synthesizer
Metal Rod Synthesizer
Cable Coil Synthesizer
Floor Tile Synthesizer
Reinforced Glass Sheet
Plasteel Sheet
Inflatables Dispenser
GPS
Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Steel Sheet
T-Ray Scanner
Magnetic Gripper
Light Replacer
Pipe Painter
Paint Gun
Engineering Tape
Inductive Charger
Welding Tool
Screwdriver
Wrench
Wirecutter
Multitool

Spoiler

Construction Module:

This module, despite being considered currently redundant, would actually be slimmed down and lose several tools. In compensation, the horrific E-Welder will be replaced with a standard welding tool to allow for rapid refueling, and a jetpack is added for traversing severe breaches. The mining drill is retained just because it's hilariously out-of-place for the setting, and primarily serves as a head-scratching device while you try to find a good use for it.

Reinforced Glass Sheet
Plasteel Sheet
Floor Tile Synthesizer
Inflatables Dispenser
GPS
Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Steel Sheet
Metal Rod Synthesizer
Magnetic Gripper
T-Ray Scanner
Paint Gun
Cyborg Mining Drill
Engineering Tape
Inductive Charger
Impact Wrench
RFD-C
Welding Tool
Synthetic Jetpack

 

 

Spoiler

Medical Module

The medical module covers three (technically 4) separate niches within its department. The big three are Surgery, General Medicine, and First Response. The latter is specifically egregious, as it overlaps and potentially outmodes the rescue module, which is intended to be the medical module's counterpart. First step is to trim the rescue capability from the base module to distinguish the rescue module as its own effective niche. Then, we'll split the module into two further distinct versions.

Spoiler

General Medicine(GenMed):

This module would consist of the specific tools which allow for manipulation of chemistry beakers and manufactured medicines, without the ability to effectively rescue incapacitated crew and return them to the medical bay on its own. The medicines available for generation in its hypospray have been adjusted to reflect its role, and provide it great capability in treating general ailments once the patient has been delivered to it.

Emergency Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Paperwork Gripper
Ointment (15)
Roll of Gauze (15)
Medical Splints (15)
Syringe
Advanced Reagent Scanner
Mass Spectrometer
Breath Analyzer
Medical Tape
Medical Gripper
Cyborg Pipette
Inductive Charger
Health Analyzer
Cyborg Hypospray (can inject: Bicaridine, Dermaline, Dexalin, Inaprovaline, Dylovene, Perconol, Mortaphenyl, Thetamycin)

Spoiler

Rescue:

This module would be trimmed down to reduce its diagnostic capabilities, as well as removing unneeded tools. Notably, this module by default travels at a significantly faster speed than other stationbound modules. One chemical, Steramycin, has been added to its hypospray to help reduce the rate of infections without being able to effectively treat them once one has developed.

Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Paperwork Gripper
Ointment (15)
Roll of Gauze (15)
Medical Splints (15)
Syringe
Medical Gripper
Synthetic Jetpack
Medical Tape
Inflatables Dispenser
GPS
Inductive Charger
Medical Analyzer
Breath Analyzer
Roller Bed Rack
Cyborg Hypospray (can inject: Tricordrazine, Inaprovaline, Dylovene, Perconol, Mortaphenyl, Adrenaline, Coagzolug, Steramycin)
Cyborg Pipette

Spoiler

Surgical:

This module, created from the isolation of the surgical capacity of all stationbound modules, is very specialized. It is slow, its default speed reflecting that of old stationbound, reflecting its emphasis on careful precision. The chemicals in its hypospray are not intended for treating general ailments, instead focusing purely on stabilizing patients who are in hellish condition while they undergo life-saving surgical intervention. Notable inclusion is the mortaphenyl-oxycomorphine combination, as opposed to the usual perconol-mortaphenyl combination.

Emergency Fire Extinguisher
Flash
Crowbar
Paperwork Gripper
Nanopaste
Advanced Trauma Kit
Scalpel
Hemostat
Retractor
Cautery
Bone gel
FixOVein
Bone Setter
Circular Saw
Surgical Drill
Roller Bed Rack
Syringe
Inductive Charger
Health Analyzer
Autopsy Scanner
Medical Gripper
Cyborg Hypospray (can inject: Coagzolug, Dexalin Plus, Inaprovaline, Dylovene, Mortaphenyl, Oxycomorphine, Thetamycin)

 

 

Change 2: Module Slot Restrictions

This one can be implemented in a few ways, but the intention is to prevent more than one stationbound from taking a single module at any given time. This could be expanded to have a stationbound module consume one of the corresponding crew slots, if applicable. I.e., a surgical module requires and occupies an empty surgeon slot, a machinist module requires and occupies an empty machinist slot, both construction and maintenance modules requiring and occupying an empty engineer slot.

This would prevent a situation where all of the patient work has to be split between two FRs and a rescue module. This, if implemented, would neatly help solve the allocation and overlap concern with crew--now a stationbound isn't competing with you and your coworker, as far as the roster is concerned, it is your coworker.

Change 3: Create a Stationbound Whitelist

This one may be a bit unpopular, but the simple fact is that stationbound play is currently as unrestricted as playing a generic human. Players are able to play stationbound any way they so please, and frequently do not do so in a manner that is conducive to good interaction or representation of the stationbound as a "species", shattering immersion and generally making fools of themselves. Creating a distinct stationbound whitelist would allow for the synthetic lore team to exert more lore and quality control over the role as a whole. This would, additionally, potentially lead to more relaxed law-sets in the future as the whitelisted playerbase would be both more trustworthy and easily policed for bad actors.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Again, each of these changes can be implemented separately, or all together, and each would dramatically help to address the existing issues with stationbound as they are currently implemented.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Contextual
Formatting.

[Itanimulli]

It's possible to make some modules faster than others?

 

Edit: Gah, leave my research borg alone!

 

Double edit: change 2 is spicy, I like that

Edited December 5, 2022 by Itanimulli

[Cnaym]

4 hours ago, Contextual said:

My lawyers have advised me to explicitly lay out my proposed changes in this thread.

Implement these changes and refuse to elaborate.

Honestly your post comes from a place of passion and appreciations for stationbounds not seen around here in a while, I thank you for putting it together.

I am just here to give a couple additions on the disabling module changes and access restriction front. Those could be antag specific: Either enabled by access code overrides (funny traitor button) or getting emagged.

As to the the whitelist? It would raise the entry requirements and lower the playerbase, that's pretty much all, I suppose the AI whitelist has reduced the number of job bans while massively reducing the numbers of AI players overall.

3 hours ago, Itanimulli said:

Edit: Gah, leave my research borg alone!

That thing is so freaking broken I have no idea how it is still untouched. Sure traitor borgs are powerful but this one can remove entire departments from the round without even being an antag.

Here is what a mentally unstable science module (me at 6am) can do within the first hour of any round:

Spoiler

1. Aquire all materials from silver / steel slimes except phoron, not to worry though, we got all access and the ship has enough phoron for our needs.

2. Research / Automate research so you got all upgrades ready for uh... yourself of course, this means speed + antag speed boosts on funny days, we really want the EMP protection though!

3. Get an illegal upgrade, that makes you an antag borg in all but lawset (not needed if you are an antag but it can never hurt you know).

Have that bald mechanist slamdunk a security headset key into your brain while they are at it. They sure love to help out their new robot frame be "more efficent".

4. Slam all upgrades into yourself, big powercells are funny when EMP protected, bonus points if you use a yellow slime core for unlimited power and self recharging energy / nanopaste.

5. You can upgrade chargers as science module but you really got them everywhere, they just speed you up even further by reducing your downtime. Upgraded chargers also repair you a bit.

6. Crew might be yelling about power issues by now, go set up the engine, take as much phoron with you as you are willing to blow up later, you got the engineering tools needed for it.

7. If you got silver slimes, go spam flashbangs food for the kitchen. (If you got gold slimes, you can spam friendly animals for your beloved crew. Do this without a good reason for a free ban!)

8. You are full of beakers, dropper and syringes, go fill those with funny chemicals, my recommendation are EMP ingredients, remember you survive those now while security IPCs and their weapons may not.

9. Figure out that the handheld teleporter in your arsenal is not only lethal, it can be set up to a beacon outside as well, it also eats bullets. Now you know why maintenance is always just a single tile wide.

The special move here is to grab a target, plop the portal, move a tile so target is moved into portal, carry on with whatever you were doing before.  Do not place the portal at the bottom of stairs though, you will be asked by staff to explain the "look down" verb while half of security is swimming with the carp.

10. Decide on whatever gimmik you really want to go for. You can just delete the entire ship, murder a department of your choice, torture crew that is unable to defend itself against you, have an emergency beacon called to really hammer home how much of a TDM round you are going to make it, take the supermatter for a walk around the hallways and stare in horror as security officers shoot it. My favorite is finding the first crew member to ask you for supplies and bring them the nuke device. Finding other antags to lend a hand to is also always rewarding.

Tldr: Nerf it into the ground, nerf it with fire, holy shit why is any of this a thing, we honestly should have more modules with spezialisation instead of these clear superior picks.

I like the proposed changes Contextual made, as a construction module enjoyer you learn to become a RCD on wheels instead of an engineering department with less hands.

[Dreamix]

Quote

 

That thing is so freaking broken I have no idea how it is still untouched. Sure traitor borgs are powerful but this one can remove entire departments from the round without even being an antag.

Here is what a mentally unstable science module (me at 6am) can do within the first hour of any round:

 

Apart from self-antagging or overstepping roles (like science setting up an engine), barely anything you have mentioned really affects the round in any negative way (or really any way at all).

If a med borg sprints to an emergency and heals the patient before anyone else can get to them, med players hate it because it takes away their gameplay - they would rather fix up the patient themselves, and potentially roleplay with them.

If a research borg gets all the materials, maxes out the research levels, and upgrades machines... No one is going to complain, because this is the most boring and repetitive "gameplay" that everyone hates. Every sane scientist hates the research levels, cause they stop or delay them from doing actually fun stuff, like making weapons or experimenting with circuits or other fun things.

[Sparky_hotdog]

7 hours ago, Contextual said:

*snip*

These are all very well thought out changes, and I would expect nothing less from Contextual. To briefly summarise my opinions on each:
1. Yes. This. Absolutely this. This retains the modules that are a) Most loved by the borg-playing community, and b) Highly valued on low-pop rounds, all without just ignoring the problems they can cause. Particularly the suggestion to split medical into basically a physician and surgeon borg (with the spicy flavour that the surgeon borg isn't just a better physician one) is very good imo.

2. Again, this. One of the things that used to drive me crazy when I played medical religiously was when our department would have two borgs. One was often problematic, but two could very easy turn into an automated hospital. I've seen less of that these days, but the fact it's still there should be addressed. Additionally, I would restrict it further by using the sort of groupings you used for your first suggestion (So only one borg helping in medical, be they GenMed, Rescue or Surgical).

3. With these changes, and them potentially losing all-access, I don't think borgs will be a big enough deal to warrant a whitelist anymore. I'm still not sure they would as we have now, but definitely not if we rework them.

3 hours ago, Cnaym said:

I like the proposed changes Contextual made, as a construction module enjoyer you learn to become a RCD on wheels instead of an engineering department with less hands.

Honestly, this is the first thing said in this entire thread that makes me want to make a borg, just because the idea of vibing while being an RCD sounds great.

[TrainTN]

10 hours ago, Contextual said:

My lawyers have advised me to explicitly lay out my proposed changes in this thread.

In short, the changes I propose consist of three distinct and separate methods, which taken individually or as a whole will improve the quality of stationbound play and players.

Change 1: Modules

Change 2: Module Slot Restrictions

Change 3: Create a Stationbound Whitelist

Change 1: is everything I was blabbering about earlier in the thread, but made into a much more detailed, comprehensive, thoughtful, and practical proposal. Synths are a subject of powercreep and need to be scaled back and reworked into more specific purposes instead of catch-all do-everything machines. I'm on board with all of that and I like what I'm reading.

Change 2: I don't really like it but I don't feel strongly about it. Restricting it so there can be only one synth per module may be fine, but eliminating modules based on crew slots doesn't sound like a good idea. If there's medical or engineering emergencies, I don't care how much medical or engineering we already have, I'll probably want a synth helping too anyway if it's a dire enough emergency, especially if it's engineering.

Change 3: No more whitelists. I'm sick and tired of whitelists. So much of this server is gated behind whitelists. I wouldn't be surprised if next year it started whitelisting human factions like Elyra and Dominia too. Please stop throwing whitelists around as solutions to problems.

[Meep]

Nerf janiborg pls. This module can invalidate an entire job just by stepping onto a tile. Make them slower and have to refill their water tank or something.

[Cnaym]

30 minutes ago, Meep said:

Nerf janiborg pls. This module can invalidate an entire job just by stepping onto a tile. Make them slower and have to refill their water tank or something.

I'd be all for this. Or make it stationary so a janitor has to move it around like one of those giant cleaning machines. The janitor module is in a very weird space right now with how it functions. Cause a speed upgrade in those makes them stupidly efficent.

[Itanimulli]

3 hours ago, Cnaym said:

I'd be all for this. Or make it stationary so a janitor has to move it around like one of those giant cleaning machines. The janitor module is in a very weird space right now with how it functions. Cause a speed upgrade in those makes them stupidly efficent.

This is also...abhorrent. Do you understand how dogwater it would be to play as *a literal, actual vaccum*?

[Itanimulli]

On 05/12/2022 at 14:49, Cnaym said:

Implement these changes and refuse to elaborate.

Honestly your post comes from a place of passion and appreciations for stationbounds not seen around here in a while, I thank you for putting it together.

I am just here to give a couple additions on the disabling module changes and access restriction front. Those could be antag specific: Either enabled by access code overrides (funny traitor button) or getting emagged.

As to the the whitelist? It would raise the entry requirements and lower the playerbase, that's pretty much all, I suppose the AI whitelist has reduced the number of job bans while massively reducing the numbers of AI players overall.

That thing is so freaking broken I have no idea how it is still untouched. Sure traitor borgs are powerful but this one can remove entire departments from the round without even being an antag.

Here is what a mentally unstable science module (me at 6am) can do within the first hour of any round:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Aquire all materials from silver / steel slimes except phoron, not to worry though, we got all access and the ship has enough phoron for our needs.

2. Research / Automate research so you got all upgrades ready for uh... yourself of course, this means speed + antag speed boosts on funny days, we really want the EMP protection though!

3. Get an illegal upgrade, that makes you an antag borg in all but lawset (not needed if you are an antag but it can never hurt you know).

Have that bald mechanist slamdunk a security headset key into your brain while they are at it. They sure love to help out their new robot frame be "more efficent".

4. Slam all upgrades into yourself, big powercells are funny when EMP protected, bonus points if you use a yellow slime core for unlimited power and self recharging energy / nanopaste.

5. You can upgrade chargers as science module but you really got them everywhere, they just speed you up even further by reducing your downtime. Upgraded chargers also repair you a bit.

6. Crew might be yelling about power issues by now, go set up the engine, take as much phoron with you as you are willing to blow up later, you got the engineering tools needed for it.

7. If you got silver slimes, go spam flashbangs food for the kitchen. (If you got gold slimes, you can spam friendly animals for your beloved crew. Do this without a good reason for a free ban!)

8. You are full of beakers, dropper and syringes, go fill those with funny chemicals, my recommendation are EMP ingredients, remember you survive those now while security IPCs and their weapons may not.

9. Figure out that the handheld teleporter in your arsenal is not only lethal, it can be set up to a beacon outside as well, it also eats bullets. Now you know why maintenance is always just a single tile wide.

The special move here is to grab a target, plop the portal, move a tile so target is moved into portal, carry on with whatever you were doing before.  Do not place the portal at the bottom of stairs though, you will be asked by staff to explain the "look down" verb while half of security is swimming with the carp.

10. Decide on whatever gimmik you really want to go for. You can just delete the entire ship, murder a department of your choice, torture crew that is unable to defend itself against you, have an emergency beacon called to really hammer home how much of a TDM round you are going to make it, take the supermatter for a walk around the hallways and stare in horror as security officers shoot it. My favorite is finding the first crew member to ask you for supplies and bring them the nuke device. Finding other antags to lend a hand to is also always rewarding.

Tldr: Nerf it into the ground, nerf it with fire, holy shit why is any of this a thing, we honestly should have more modules with spezialisation instead of these clear superior picks.

I like the proposed changes Contextual made, as a construction module enjoyer you learn to become a RCD on wheels instead of an engineering department with less hands.

Since I have to reword it, apparently taken the wrong way;

 

If someone were to go about playing a round this way, they would probably be banned. Plain and simple. Self antagging and powergaming is bad. It's literally in the rules.

[Cnaym]

5 hours ago, Itanimulli said:

This is also...abhorrent. Do you understand how dogwater it would be to play as *a literal, actual vaccum*?

You could still clean with the normal mop or soap. It's a choice. I'd let people play a coffee vendor if they wanted to as long as they stayed in the bar lol.

[Itanimulli]

1 minute ago, Cnaym said:

You could still clean with the normal mop or soap. It's a choice. I'd let people play a coffee vendor if they wanted to as long as they stayed in the bar lol.

I think that went over your head.

Being stationary as a janiborg and requiring outside help to preform basic funxtions is no bueno.

[Cnaym]

5 minutes ago, Itanimulli said:

Being stationary as a janiborg and requiring outside help to preform basic funxtions is no bueno.

Oh no, the entire idea was to make you stationary when you activate the floor mop that auto cleans tiles below you, not to make you completly unmoving. Probably should have explained it a bit better.

It would mean you either clean like a normal janitor (instead of ten times faster) or work together with one to speed up the process.

[Itanimulli]

2 hours ago, Cnaym said:

Oh no, the entire idea was to make you stationary when you activate the floor mop that auto cleans tiles below you, not to make you completly unmoving. Probably should have explained it a bit better.

It would mean you either clean like a normal janitor (instead of ten times faster) or work together with one to speed up the process.

this would probably be better, then, yeah. it makes a lot more sense than "autoroomba"

Edited December 7, 2022 by Itanimulli

[Itanimulli]

There is an impending change that straight up removes the janiborg. I do wonder if there is some alternative to this? Perhaps the solution that turns the auto-clean into a module that requires pushing/pulling to operate?

[KingOfThePing]

Why, in this universe, would you want a module, that cannot perform it's main function (to clean) except when another player (probably a janitor who also wants to clean) uses you to clean. 

Instead of his own cleaning tools. That he has a lot of + the pussy wagon. 

 

There is no situation in this reality that this is fun or engaging or needed. 

 

[Itanimulli]

On 08/12/2022 at 09:54, KingOfThePing said:

Why, in this universe, would you want a module, that cannot perform it's main function (to clean) except when another player (probably a janitor who also wants to clean) uses you to clean. 

Instead of his own cleaning tools. That he has a lot of + the pussy wagon. 

 

There is no situation in this reality that this is fun or engaging or needed. 

 

It still has cleaning tools, it just wouldn't instaclean a tile by existing.

 

I really don't want it to go away but people are already pushing PRs for that.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Itanimulli

[TrainTN]

On 08/12/2022 at 06:59, Itanimulli said:

There is an impending change that straight up removes the janiborg. I do wonder if there is some alternative to this? Perhaps the solution that turns the auto-clean into a module that requires pushing/pulling to operate?

Of all the things that could be done, people are trying to remove the janitor synth?

What the hell?

Edited December 10, 2022 by TrainTN

[Contextual]

As best as I can tell, the all access of stationbounds has now been removed entirely. The only way for stationbound to get this access back, the role and function which makes dead/lowpop mechanically functional for those players who choose to participate in it, is for a Research Director to be present and willing to grant them the ability. An incredibly uncommon member of command, on an already low-population round.

I don't think I can really express my disappointment with this change in mere words. The actual problems of the role have not been addressed in any way, all of which are rooted in the abilities of specific modules. The actual "flavor", the point of stationbound being stationbound has been lost, in favor of... restricting movement? Of restricting access? Of making stationbound effectively the same as crew, but worse?

And then, another merge has already been proposed for an entire module to be summarily removed instead of the (admittedly more involved) solution of restricting module availability based on available slots. 

I don't think I can wrap my head around the mentality that has gone into these implemented and upcoming changes. It seems to me to be intentionally, maliciously obtuse, spurred on by blind bias and intentionally oblivious to more reasonable, agreeable suggestions. There is so much room for improvement to stationbound, so many things which can be adjusted, and should have been long ago. Instead, in the face of the removal vote not going through, the intention seems to be to "rework" the class in the same way that an autocrat "reworks" political opposition, rendering it utterly toothless and obsolete.