Ban the Machinist from surgery.

[Boggle08]

The fact the little wiki chart disallows them from cavity surgery implicitly bars them from surgical processes. The chart and the fact we permit the steps listed on the wiki(with the exception of borgings) has just led to a lot of confusion over a niche ability that never comes up in-game. It does not help that the surgery tray for them is incomplete, and they work completely outside of medical's organizational structure. Just take them off the chart, and leave an asterisk somewhere that they can install new limbs. That's it.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Boggle08

[Carver]

Heavily support this. Any amount of surgery has always left them feeling overqualified in the amount of things they can do - I'd even go so far as to support installing new limbs only in absence of a surgeon proper. Let their primary duties remain being exosuits, hardsuits and building/fixing wholly synthetic beings.

[Sheeplets]

Yeah, sure. I'm tired of seeing people argue this point in circles. Let's just leave the surgery to surgeons and be done with it.

[Scheveningen]

The machinist should only be in charge of prosthetic limb maintenance/replacement, but should not be anywhere near a person's organs, because organ replacement intrudes into surgeon's territory as you need to open someone's body up to do that. They fetch whatever is needed for medical otherwise. They can make mechs, hardsuits, robots, etc. Their job isn't as dull as it seems.

[Hepatica]

4 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

The machinist should only be in charge of prosthetic limb maintenance/replacement, but should not be anywhere near a person's organs, because organ replacement intrudes into surgeon's territory as you need to open someone's body up to do that. They fetch whatever is needed for medical otherwise. They can make mechs, hardsuits, robots, etc. Their job isn't as dull as it seems.

Actually, it is exactly as dull as it seems, but that's a complaint for a different thread.

As far as this thread goes, it would make absolutely no sense not to allow machinist to install cybernetic limbs, such as legs and arms. Synthetic organs, on the other hand, should be installed by a surgeon, given it requires the removal of said organ in the first place, but maintenance/repair of them should fall to the machinist first and foremost. In the absence of one, sure, get a tube of nanopaste and go wild, but the machinist job is already a role that can do very little without two other roles supporting it, a proper science role and a miner, and that's assuming either does their job properly, and on top of that a good portion of their job is made redundant by a tube of nanopaste. Removing even more from them, IE installation of cybernetic limbs, not that such is done with any regularity anyway, makes no sense.

[EJJ]

I don't really mind Machinist being banned from Surgical stuff, but if we don't go that way, I'd like better definition of who takes priority for tasks and such. I've seen a handful of situations where a Machinist is expected to do surgery or forced to, or asked to, or whatever other situation and something goes fuckways and someone gets mad/in trouble and everyone comes out confused or peeved.

But this requires Maintainers to look at this thread, not us to keep arguing in circles.

[DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun]

I don't care what this lands on anymore, banned in surgery or not, but we have to finally make a decision on it. It's been extremely unclear on the wiki for years.

If Machinists require a Surgeons assistance in an operation, please outline it on both the Machinist wikipage and the surgery wikipage so that it's less confusing.

[LordPwner]

I'd just say let them do borging and be done with it. They can repair mech limbs and IPC's just fine and if the changes to IPC's are made, giving them organs to try and balance their combat tanking power, there will be much more to do/repair

[Kelnor]

I personally like having the machinist in the OR. Expose the organ surgically, then let them fix it. There’s a bug with mechanical organs I’ve never figured out that some machinists seem to be able to fix with some time.

Id support a change to mechanical organs, make it so that a surgeon applying nano paste might get it working well enough to keep the patient alive, but you need a machinist to fix it to 100%.