Suit sensors nerfing/adjustment/removal discussion

[greenjoe]

One idea I had regarding suit sensors was to turn the sensor thing into its own physical item that attaches to clothes
if it is removed that item of clothing no longer can use suit sensors until it is turned back on

[rrrrrr]

Sensors should be removed. The fact that it's expected for people to either sit in the penalty box and stay glued to the computer or walk around with the program set up in the upper-right corner of their screen is, uh, not great. Doesn't sound good.

Someone already said that SS13 is an action-horror game, which is objectively true. Having a solid fifth of the server on high-pop with their eyes on everyone's locations and vitals at all times defeats that completely. There are already relatively few isolated areas on the ship, outside of the maintenance tunnels (which aren't all that big), so having suit sensors just further takes away any feeling of isolation/creepiness.

As always, I feel the need to point out that suit sensors were a /tg/station invention. As always, everything not great or cheugy or stupid about the game can be traced back to /tg/. Just sayin', lol.

[Roostercat]

9 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

One idea I had regarding suit sensors was to turn the sensor thing into its own physical item that attaches to clothes
if it is removed that item of clothing no longer can use suit sensors until it is turned back on

this will unfortunately be more or less the same thing, as removing sensors and removing an accessory are the same amount of button clicks in the same UI

[Carver]

I personally prefer sensors being around, but even if they were nerfed I wouldn’t be too upset as it’s not the most difficult to avoid dying anyways. I would predict more gank-related ahelps in the end, as the most notable consequence.

[Flpfs]

Sensors make gameplay incredibly safe because of reasons already stated such as an OOC culture that forces players to always watch them, and balancing around antags.

 

I agree with the suggestions to make them either job clothing only or remove them entirely. I would also agree with a time delay being added to their updates.

[rrrrrr]

on github people are saying that removing sensors for PDAs means someone has to go be the "sensorbitch"

if there is an expectation for someone to be a "sensorbitch" then maybe sensors should just be removed completely, lol

[Butterrobber202]

On 15/10/2023 at 05:07, Noble Row said:

We play on a server that is advertised as Heavy Roleplay, and it's hard to roleplay from deadchat.

A Heavy Roleplay SS13 Server. Dying is a part of the game. Hard to RP about anything but fake politics and canon event rounds when no one is actually in danger in most rounds.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

1 hour ago, Butterrobber202 said:

A Heavy Roleplay SS13 Server. Dying is a part of the game. Hard to RP about anything but fake politics and canon event rounds when no one is actually in danger in most rounds.

I'm not sure I agree with the implication that all worthwhile conflict in a story is inherently violent.

[Butterrobber202]

21 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

I'm not sure I agree with the implication that all worthwhile conflict in a story is inherently violent.

The topic of this post revolves around how medical and in-game violence interact inside the game, which revolves around violence for the majority of the "exciting" rounds.

[CourierBravo]

Initially, my gut reaction was “Im not a fan.” For reasons already listed. But after reading a lot of perspectives here, i think removing suit sensors is a good first step. I used to play a lot more medical, and i often found myself getting given shit for wanting to do more than sit and watch suit sensors. Having the program up on my screen was a nice way to not have to be in The Pain Cube. But it took up a lot of valuable screen space. It covers up my entire verbs section. So having it gone would make things harder, but very far from impossible. In the like, 30-40? hours I’ve put into FR, i can count the number of times i saved someone because of suit sensors on one hand. We don’t give our players enough credit, they almost always self report over radio where they are and when they need help. 
 

Additionally, dying is just apart of the game. And it’s apart of the story we make. It’s only a 20 minute respawn timer. Whenever i die, i just talk in ghost chat, go get water, and then do something for a little. Usually go for a walk up and down the street, grab a bite to eat, or work on a map i have in the background. There’s always another job that can be done when you respawn. Hell, go play a ghost role if you wanna get funky! There’s a lot of ships now, go have fun!
I think we need to take a page out of another classic 2.5d game, Dwarf Fortress, and remember that loosing is fun. 

[ImmortalRedshirt]

To be honest, there is a pretty big gap between the Dwarf Fortress style of losing, where it takes on more of an entertaining string of cascading failures, and the style of losing where you're taken out of the game because someone believed "difficulty" means "making the game more frustrating without adding any interesting dynamics to play off of."

On another note, I've been thinking of a little tool/program/whatever that is given to FRs where, instead of getting the whole list of people, you need to select one name in particular and if they've got sensors on or something, it outputs their location at the time you requested it. You're not completely screwed over when someone cries for help without giving a location, but it withholds much more information such as wellbeing or whether or not they're on the move, as well as whoever else may be with them.

[Carver]

28 minutes ago, Bejewledpot said:

It’s only a 20 minute respawn timer.

This is one of the most flawed arguments I've seen repeated and I wish people would stop using it, I don't sit down ready to dedicate 2+ hours of my time with the intent to die and then roll several different characters when each one demands an entirely different mindset and playstyle.

[KingOfThePing]

I'd rather see more types of injuries, diagnostics, treatment, etc. added than seeing medical nerfed like this. Also an OOC shift, where people don't expect medical to sensor sit all the time (which seems to be the case) would do much more than making drastic changes to the sensors. I find sensors boring as they are right now, but making FR miserable to play is no real solution. Maybe make gradual nerfs, maybe instead of showing the location you need to use something like the pinpointer to find someone instead (with a few more hints than the normal pinpointer) or something similar.

I sincerely believe that such an approach is better than the crowbar approach that is being done right here. Outright removing sensors is no option because people will just die regularly in the depths of maintenance. Yes dying is part of the game and people should finally get used to that, but again - this is not only about the patients, but the treating end, too. Don't make roles miserable for balance is what I say.

[vayrarae]

i'd really rather see suit sensors rolled up all into one of two settings which is full vitals and "off". the only case i see of substance here is that being able to view sensor coordinates of an injured person as being unfair to antags. not sure if i agree w/that because of what was posted on page 1

enforcing people to sit in a "roleplay box", of any kind, is not a good idea. not a good idea to make this dept miserable to play either, as much as im not opposed to encouraging more teamplay from the crew. tbh, people might end up adapting in a way that ends up making people invulnerable bc they stick to their friends for protection which means antags get even less access to people to antagonize.

[meep109]

2 hours ago, vayrarae said:

the only case i see of substance here is that being able to view sensor coordinates of an injured person as being unfair to antags. not sure if i agree w/that because of what was posted on page 1

Personally I believe we should remove the location sensing or make it like a single-tracker only. Antags need all the help they can get at the moment considering security and medical are the most often filled departments, and those two departments work against antags the most

[OolongCow]

On 15/10/2023 at 02:54, NG+7 Gael said:

3. People dying is fine. I think the expectation that you won't die is, in my opinion, something that shouldn't be encouraged.

Most people don't have an issue with dying. The issue is that deaths often feel meaningless, undeserved, and arbitrary. Being killed without the ability to fight back by someone who made zero effort to make it interesting is one of the main reasons people wanted ling removed from secret. No one is going to object if they die at 1:30 after a round of back and forth with a murderer. But most people have issues with an antag ganking someone who got off the residential elevator not one minute prior and parapen -> decapping them.

And don't use the boring "gotcha" of "but real life's deaths are meaningless, undeserved, and arbitrary too!" Because while that's true, this isn't real life and those are boring stories that I didn't come here for. If I wanted to get arbitrarily killed in a nihilistic environment where my death means nothing I'd play Lifeweb.

 

Also, I'm still not convinced about the antag portion of the argument, because my point was never addressed. It's ridiculously easy to disable sensors as-is, and any antag who's concerned about sensors can just either kill the person outright or leave them for medical to save. The concerns around medical's culture is valid and I agree that that has to change, but I take issue with using "think of the poor antags" as any genuine justification. Dealing with sensors as a bad man is a very small ask for all of the not-necessarily-antag-related cases of people getting dunked it prevents. The medical culture issue is a much better justification that I do not necessarily disagree with.

I know this can be sort of a word salad, so I'll reiterate:
I don't agree that they should be removed because of antags. But if medical players are saying it's making medical less fun, then by all means do it and do it now.

Edited October 24, 2023 by OolongCow

[MrGodZilla]

I'm a tad late to this but I'd like sensors gone (or at least reworked) because I just don't like having to divide my attention between three different windows while trying to roleplay. If it's code green I just want to chill, but the expectation in medical is that everyone is on top of sensors at all times... and your performance in medical does sort of impact how other characters interact with you, for better or worse. It's not fun.