Chaplain Buff Pls

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

During occult rounds, the Chaplain is literally the only one that can 'combat' the spoopy cult in an interesting way: IE, converting them away from their heresy and trying to save the station from occultic catastrophe. Myself, as Chaplain, try very hard to 'research' growing occultism on the station, and try to run along an engaging roleplay of growing knowledge in how to combat the threat. Chaplains are allowed by lore to grow a vague sense of knowledge about vampires or cultists. (Remember - both of these exist in our lore. You just haven't seen them before they showed up on Aurora.)

Unfortunately, occultism is treated as regular old nuke ops from the crew, being detained or executed willy nilly. At worst, the moment I wave my obsidian rod over a cultists' head, I get called insane and kicked out and fought at held back at every turn, or even thrown in a cell. At best, the HoS tries to go along with me but half command staff still label me insane and refuse to even entertain the idea of cooperation. So there's nothing I can do except beg on the radio for someone to believe me. (Usually Unathi believe me - because they're the last race to really invest in the supernatural being a fact of life and I have to say it's one of the reason's they're my favorite race.)

So let's force them to see the light of Space Jesus.

Occult Response Team

1. A the very least, a table in the ERT armory with some obsidian rods, holy water, and crossbows, with qualified chaplains/shamans/etc donning the equipment. In non-occult rounds, explained by the very weird corporate bureaucracy wanting to be "prepared for anything".

 

Chaplain Buffs

• I always liked the idea that Chaplains, during occult rounds, could 'recruit' in the same way as cultists. But for him, it's completely voluntary to be converted and you suffer no penalties from rejecting. At round-start for cult rounds, the chaplain would "receive a premonition of evil", and told to recruit 'acolytes'.' These recruited people would see the 'premonition' when recruited, and work with the chaplain to keep the crew pure, through optional materials outlined below.
   
  
• Cultists get their super fun summoned sword and cult armor. The Chaplain gets... Nothing. There should be some kind of reward for capturing cultists who go full crazy and allow their weapons and armor to be taken. In the hands of the chaplain, they should be able to 'purify' the cult robes and sword with holy water - giving it a finite amount of uses. Using the water on the robes would create Crusader Armour, which has the exact same stats as the cult armor but with Space Jesus cred. The cult sword would be transformed into a Faith Blade, which issues bad burn damage to cultists and minimal brute damage to non-cultists; ideally non-cultists would barely get over unarmed brute damage since Space Jesus frowns on improper usage of faith blades. This allows, when conversion of the cultists fail, the crew to fight back in a way that isn't 'sec stuns them x100'.
   
  
• Finally, when the cultists try to convert an acylote or chaplain to nar'sie, they should have additional effort required to convert to make it an incentive to prevent people from joining the Faith or avoid/fight the chaplain and his followers. I think requiring 2 - 3 cultists around an acylote to have him/her converted would work. This makes it dangerous to attempt until the cult has grown in followers, allowing an escalation.

 

Ideally, this new set-up for cult rounds allows the Chaplain to get his own band of followers, and makes it a competition between three groups: The cult, who want to summon Nar'Sie/become One True Faith vs the Faith who are combating the Cult and their heretical ways vs The Crew, who are caught between the two and forced to weigh their own faith, or lack-thereof, against the very real evidence of occultism and divinity coming to blows.

Vampires can already be dealt with, so this expansion probably doesn't need to encompass them. Buuuuuuut I would like it if they slowly gained burn damage inside the Chapel, and they could not use any of their powers inside it.

I don't know if Chaplains are still unaffected by Wizard powers; it's been awhile since I fought one.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Carver]

I don't know if Chaplains are still unaffected by Wizard powers; it's been awhile since I fought one.

I believe you're spell-resistant/immune whilst holding the Null Rod, believe, but I'm not too sure. I don't think Fireballs care about the Null Rod at all.

[FinalVerdict3]

I support this idea. Very cool and interesting. 1+

[Lord Lag]

I would LOVE to see this in game. Sword-wielding zealots duking it out would be amazing to see.

[Killerhurtz]

While I basically see it as "switching Cult from occultnuke to occultrev", I 100% fully approve of this because of how fleshed out it is, and would LOVE to see that happen - it definitely adds flavor to the whole gamemode.

And I'd take it to 11. Cultists can summon Nar'Sie with 11 people/ghosts and have runes? Give the Chaplain and his acolytes wards that act like a wall to (or at least hurts) the cultists, and a ritual needed 11 people (not sure if we should count ghosts for a myriad of reasons - on the one hand, it would make sense to have holy ghosts and would give an incentive to the cultists to actually capture the souls of non-cultists, on the other it might be overpowered and might metapolarize people towards trying to work on a specific goal, and removes the evil in the cult's usage of ghosts) that wards the whole station against evil - which can have various effects, depending on what we want, from constantly harming cultists to preventing the summon of Nar'Sie until it's disrupted (just like non-cultists/the priests, IIRC, can disrupt the runes needed to summon Nar'Sie).

But yeah - this would be awesome.

[the_furry]

Woah would love to see this happen. I think the details need to be hammered out for balance rasons. Cult already has a hard enough time dealing with just the crew let alone zelots. But still i love the idea of the chaplin having more to do in rp and would like to see something like this fit.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Woah would love to see this happen. I think the details need to be hammered out for balance reasons. Cult already has a hard enough time dealing with just the crew let alone zealots. But still i love the idea of the Chaplin having more to do in rp and would like to see something like this fit.

 

The power of the zealots is theoretically risen in relation to the power of the cultists. They can only get their special awesome weapons if the cult is spawning their own; before any big action by the cult, it's just them trying to earnestly save the souls of the heretics. Ideally allowing cultists to be murdered before they are proven to be hopeless is contrary to the goals of Space Jesus or [insert deity here].

But yes Cult has a hard time. I think this idea, combined with the development going on for Cult over in Bay (once it's finished) would make Cult an extremely valuable and entertaining game mode.

[SilverTalismen]

Im all for this, the few times I do cult as chaplain I am sick of being alone in the fight against the cultists

[NebulaFlare]

I gotta jump on the bandwagon and agree here. My priestess got freaking arrested and humiliated when she exorcised a restless spirit because she 'destroyed evidence of what was clearly a hologram'. I mean...I literally facepalmed. This is her job, to perform exorcisms, and she gets detained for it. Oh, and disrupting evil energies and sanctifying the station by removing a blood rune the HoS showed her - the IAAs were all over her.

Part of the problem is that religion isn't taken seriously on SS13. We have literal lunatic chaplains that spout crazy nonsense that no one believes. And then when legit preachers come along, they're immediately labeled as looneys as well.

I wanna support this. Make it literal visual proof that the chaplain is a force to be reckoned with. Because so far, "Hey. This strange pulsing mark of blood that cannot be cleaned off just vanished when I waved my rod over it, and you're still calling me a looneybin who destroyed evidence? I'm the only FREAKING person on station who is TRAINED in this, sister! LISTEN TO ME AND SHUT YOUR FLAP!!" -huffs-

[the_furry]

Woah would love to see this happen. I think the details need to be hammered out for balance reasons. Cult already has a hard enough time dealing with just the crew let alone zealots. But still i love the idea of the Chaplin having more to do in rp and would like to see something like this fit.

 

The power of the zealots is theoretically risen in relation to the power of the cultists. They can only get their special awesome weapons if the cult is spawning their own; before any big action by the cult, it's just them trying to earnestly save the souls of the heretics. Ideally allowing cultists to be murdered before they are proven to be hopeless is contrary to the goals of Space Jesus or [insert deity here].

But yes Cult has a hard time. I think this idea, combined with the development going on for Cult over in Bay (once it's finished) would make Cult an extremely valuable and entertaining game mode.

 

That actually makes a lot of since balancing wise. I would like to see an IC reason to treat priests more reasonably. This puts forth great mechanics in the game but it will still be pretty useless if the community/security always writes off cults/wizards as impossibilities and assumes the priest is always talking crazy. Maybe a lore change allowing for some knowledge of cults/wizards and magic? There’s plenty of lores that have magic side by side of science to various degrees (hell the marvel and DC universe do it all the time pretty successfully). I dono what it could be, But I do think we need something to encourage security and scientists to believe in the priests more readily. If we don’t find something to encourage belief in spirits/magic among a station dedicated to science this mechanic change, as awesome as it is, won’t be that useful.

*edit*

for an example. I imagine a common rp is going to be.

Priest: "let me see the weapon I can bless it to actually fight this cult"

security: "um...no we're not giving a crazy spirit nut a weapon"

Thus defeating the point of this awesome change.

[Zidanyia]

This is honestly a great idea, and it shouldn't be too difficult to code in the 'crusader' item replacers idea. Gives crew members an excuse to fight back against the cult if it ever gets too insane.

[canon35]

There already is an excuse to fight off cult if it gets too insane. That means they're executing people in the halls, so of course people would grab crossbows/knives/shotguns, etc.

Anyways, great suggestion, but can we buff cult a little too? It seems like most of the time, cult gets fucked over.

[jackfractal]

Kelenius has a cult rewrite mostly finished on Bay. We may be able to merge that.

[Garnascus]

Its unfortunate but its partly our own fault, there's a fine line between metagaming and just being stupid. We hammer out metagaming so voraciously I think players can be scared to trust or believe the chaplain for the same reason they act oblivious to strange runes and "holograms".

Regardless I actually think a High role-play environment makes it awkward enough for cultists to get a foot hold that buffing chaplains would further unsettle the power imbalance that I think already exists between the crew and the cultists. In fact id probably go so far as to say we should remove the chaplain completely.

[Zidanyia]

Kelenius has a cult rewrite mostly finished on Bay. We may be able to merge that.

 

All due respect: Ew, no.

The changes they're suggesting are not particularly inspired nor are they interesting (outside of axing the RNG word system, but even then there are better ways to do it imo). All that 'rewrite' does is redistribute power where it was sorely needed to begin with.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

bump!!!!!

[hivefleetchicken]

I have to agree with Garn. Every time I see people fighting blatant antags I always side with the antag so that I'm not marked as a powergamer.

I think cult AND the chaplain both need buffs so that the gamemode is balanced.

At this moment in time, the only time cults have actually gone places were rounds in which the cultists were allowed to create runes freely because the security players (including me) didn't want to get called out for powergaming if we stopped the cultists. The cultists got more than half the crew and were still all instantly killed by sec. They have very little power when the time comes for a real takeover.

Making it easier for people to identify and stop cultists would just shut the antags down more unless we buff the cult abilities to make their time a bit easier.

[enkas]

Part of this sounds like my ideas, but with a lot more thought to it. I like it. I love playing as a chaplain. And recruiting acolytes to bite the cult back would be neat. Then again, cult needs more teeth too.

[Vanagandr]

Something to note.

Space Jesus I'm not sure about, but as far as normal Jesus goes, someone dying without repenting and accepting Him in their hearts either- depending on your exact branch of the theology -dies permanently, in the fashion expected by athiests: they were here and now they're not, they are gone, forever, and everything they were or could ever be is lost, or they continue, forever, in a condition that, again, depends on your branch of the theology but is at best suboptimal; whether suffering in a pit of eternal flame or in a sort of dull waiting-room sort of afterlife, able to see Heaven but never actually get to it.

Killing someone who hasn't converted, then, is two-edged - not only does it condemn them to Hell, but it takes away the possibility that they might be converted and thereby live forever in Heaven.

That isn't to say that it might not be necessary, when a particularly violent heathen is running amok and nothing else can be done, but it's an unspeakable tragedy even beyond the normal 'someone is now dead'.

Killing, thus, should be an absolute and total last resort for the defenders of the Faith.

They should be, wherever possible, attempting to subdue the heathens so that they may be preached at and turned back to The Light. Null-rodding, incidentally, isn't so much converting them as it is evicting the demonic presence from their minds and returning them to their normal state; if they were a heathen before, they're still a heathen now, but they're not being puppeted by a malevolent spirit anymore and are thus A: more likely to listen to attempts to convert them and B: may be safely left alone while you get back to work without needing to worry that they'll do something to launch themselves or others into Hell.

Not to say that they should drop the swords and let the culties do whatever, but they should probably have a medic handy to stabilise the heathen once his hands have been cut off, and they should be finishing off the wounded or going around bragging on the radio about how they killed the fuck out of some heretics.

Once they're dead, well, strictly speaking Chaplains should absolutely flip their shit at the slightest suggestion of cloning anyone, because it isn't reviving the dead person so much as it is growing a new person who looks like them and then brainwashing that person to think it's the same guy, but that's a different topic entirely.

[MagnificentMelkior]

I think that armor should have a different sprite for gameplay reasons, but I don't support magic transmutation of the armor because its heresy to say that God grants major miracles (actual observable magic). Make the chaplain use a (red?) crayon on it (he has crayons in his office). Or better yet: null rod + crayon.

Another thing: if zealots armed with swords is a thing, I'm sure security (reasonably) will confiscate their weapons. But, how about this? Null rod on a cult blade changes the energy blue and does the faith sword stuff. It also acts as a null rod, and on help intent doesn't harm. Could be seperable again too. So this sword would cut through cult walls, and probably banish ghosts in one swing. But there'd also only be one of them. (the other faith knights could just use the cult blades or other weapons.)

I do think its a shame that people witness blood rune-walls disappear under a chaplain's rod and still keep their fedora on, though.

Also, I think Occult response team is very strange unless NT actually knows about vampires and the nar'sie cult (and if they do that has trickle down implications for Aurora crew).

[enkas]

Also, I think Occult response team is very strange unless NT actually knows about vampires and the nar'sie cult (and if they do that has trickle down implications for Aurora crew).

 

Could be a thing not associated with NT, a thing of some secretive monastic warrior stuff.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Also, I think Occult response team is very strange unless NT actually knows about vampires and the nar'sie cult (and if they do that has trickle down implications for Aurora crew).

 

Could be a thing not associated with NT, a thing of some secretive monastic warrior stuff.

 

Remember that every antag is canon as existing in the Aurora universe. Changelings are in our government, cultists are doing terrible things out of sight, and vampires are stalking the streets, preying on the untouchables of the slums.

More related, the Nar'Sie cult has infiltrated humanity, and is secretly doing their nefarious deeds but there's no knowledge of their existence... Maybe. The rumors are far above the security clearance of anyone on the Aurora. But like I said in my first post, it can just be one of those extremely weird protocols that doesn't make sense. IRL we have no evidence of alien species' or zombies, but there are genuine plans on the books by the US government to deal with alien invasions and zombie uprisings.

The supernatural exists in our universe, or at least it's things that surpass our understanding. If the cult can do spoopy cult things, the chaplain, who is literally the only non-sec way to fight cultists without murdering them should be given some cool abilities too.

The point of cult round is resisting occultist influences or failing and succumbing to an eldritch madness. It's far more interesting to have the conflict be between the chaplain and whatever deity they're representing and the cult. Reinforce this with mechanics. At the very least giving the chaplain an ability to give someone visions of corruption on the station would allow far greater involvement of the crew with the chaplain. Even if the chaplain is ganked and killed, someone else can rise up with the chaplain's knowledge and try to save the souls of the cultists. Currently the only thing the chaplain has is his word and there's no incentive to believe him.

You can still be culted after the chaplain gives you a revelation of evil, but the mechanic by itself lets people believe the chaplain without fear of accusations of power-gaming or feeling like it's bizarrely out-of-character to believe the chaplain. Nioathi-chaplain has been tossed in a cell for deconverting a cultist right in front of the HoS because it caused some burn damage and they didn't believe in mumbo-jumbo no matter what nioathi said.

[K0NFL1QT]

This looks suspiciously like another thread by a devilishly handsome poster.

[Butterrobber202]

I would /love/ to see this.

Even if its been sitting here for months :3

Nothing inspires me than the picture of a Space Jesus Follower gunning down Cultists with the Power Crossbow, and hacking off their Heads with a Golden Blade of light