Player Complaint: TonyWillslt, VileBranches, and Others

[LilSh4]

BYOND Key: (This is your Byond Login/Ckey)LilSh4

Player Byond Key: (This is the Byond Login/Ckey of the player you are complaining)TonyWillslt, VileBranches, TheGrifter, SilentNight195, The duke of time, Bokaza

Staff involved: (This is if the complaint was ahelped and if it was handled by a staff member)Serveris6

Reason for complaint: (State your reason for your complaint)They were all the head Revs during a RP-Rev round. Almost as soon as the heads of staff told the crew about their pays, there was the unrest, as always. But even worse, thats when their revolution begun. They were promised the heads were trying to fix this, get their pay back maybe, etc. But it just didn't matter. In the end, a bunch of people were killed with a severe lack of RP, myself included. I don't know very many details of the round other than this big breaking of rules, and this would be against most of the revolution players, if there weren't so many that round.

Approximate Date/Time: (The date and time of the incident. Date is more important but both are helpful)December 20, 2015, ended at 5:08PM.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Guest

[Blingx3]

Hello, As I played captain in this round I'm going to give my two cents over this.

as the reports from central arrived I didn't announce them at the time,and wanted to consult with the rest of command and heads of staff, and I want to point out something, from the first minute of the start of the shift, some of the crew were starting the anit-NT propaganda, that seemed odd to me as of none of the reports from central were announced. The crew gathered around in the chapel to start a mutiny for god knows why ? just because they hated NT ?, note at the time this was happening no announcments were made about the pay cuts and other things.

Another issue is how Revs handeled Command staff, When you start something like that and stand against a big power like NT, you must have demands or atleast try to deliver some kind of message. as to why are you doing this. None of those things were delivered to any heads of staff and the round was built on death to Tyrants from what I can remember, which is a broad term that will absoloutly lead to alot of uncontrolled and out of hand actions. for example, me and a security borg headed to engineering to arrest two engineers because they had cut power off from the station, as the two engineers were warned two times to fix it. they didn't. so they were arrested, while moving them to the brig, an Officer (Faraj played by The Grifter ?) just came onto me and pepersprayed me and with an assistant and another Engineer they got a hold of my ID, and recalled the shuttle, as they went in the bridge shooting and rampaging. Now my problem is : what was the purpose of all this choas that was cuased ? why are the revs doing this ? it can't be just for the sake of a gamemod ? that's just not heavy RP at all.

[Guest]

Alright. I guess I should explain my perspective. I played Amira Faraj, a security officer and a head rev.

I started recruiting people normally, talking to them about this worker right's movement. Recruited two people. Some stuff happens, namely, someone assaulted a head of staff. I kinda thought it had started escalating down the route of slaughter and that it was one other Head Revs plan to begin with*. Also, my character was aware she would get doomed if the word of her involvement got out. So, skipping ahead. We are in the briefing room. HoS is asking for loyalty and all that crap. One of the officers fucks up and suddenly decides that it's a good time for a room full of revs, with only two apparently loyal officers, to mutiny against the commander. He walks to me and whispers in my ear, "When I attack the HoS, everyone attack.". So shit, I've been exposed. The officer decides to attack the HoS, I try and stop him to clear my name. I get stunned and cuffed. Loyalists seem to have won. There is still chaos. I tell my friend and fellow rev to uncuff me. He does and I magically turn the situation around in through the power of baton. Every loyalist is cuffed, but alas, my fellow revs are incompetent and two run away, leaving only the HoS and the Warden. Mind you, one of the Loyalist officers was an infiltrator rev, basically a rev that turned on his fellow revs when they needed him the most. So, we kinda won that engagement. In go the station cyborgs and start fighting, moaning at us over the LOOC when we harmbatoned in response. I try and escape into the hallway, and it turns out The loyalists have released N20, causing no end of headaches to the staff, JUST for a quick and easy win. Alright, we all get gassed, and stay asleep for a while. I got pissed and logged off.

10 minutes or so later, I log on again. The HoS is giving everyone implants. Yes, let's implant all the revs for another chance of a quick win. My character obviously doesn't want to get implanted, but mistakenly gets released and her gear back. She releases the aforementioned friend rev from perma, then decides it's time to fight back. Now, this is maybe where my judgement fails. What I first do is, get a box of EMP grenades. The idea is to incapacitate security through their use and start causing chaos. Chaos is where all revolutions thrive. I do that, then run away, noticing the captain. Now, I run after the captain for a while, a captain who decided to go around arresting random revs by himself. A scientist was helping him. Yes, a scientist was doing sec duty. I hunt him down and peperspray him, then release the engineer rev that he was pulling. While we were trying to fashion quick cablecuffs, people kept running in and trying to stop us. One of them was the aforementioned scientist. I take the cap's ID, the cap escapes. Fuck. Alright, we run to cargo and find a conveniently placed WEAPONS crate. We are getting armed. In the meanwhile, the scientist is still running after us. I fire at him as a warning, telling him to go back. He runs, then attacks my fellow rev engineer that was getting armed. Of course we would fucking kill him.

So, what now, we are armed and running around. We decide to go at the Captain, who run away. The engineer says he's at the bridge. We go there, and meet up with the chaplain, who was also a head rev. Unfortunately, the chaplain was ignoring his loyalty implant. So, yes. We run to the bridge. We see an assistant wearing HoP clothes, I shoot her in the heat of combat, knowing that the HoP more than likely has a energy pistol. I immediately notice that she's not the HoP and stop firing after only one shot. I have no idea if someone else killed her, but I didn't. The IAA starts following us and attacking. We see the HoP and run after him, trying to ignore the IAA. We mow down the HoP, because, well, I though the whole point of such situation is to kill the heads so they can't message CC. The IAA didn't stop, but continue to follow and attack, all the way to the captain's office. We are forced to kill him. From this point, the situation is pretty much desperate. We are stuck in the bridge, security is closing in. That part isn't really important, but we get defeated. The engineer escaped using the hand tele.

Now, to summarize. From second one of the round, literally everyone in the staff started stomping on the revs. And we pretty much haven't done anything special other than try and recruit. From the communist bullshit one of the revs was spouting, to the point where someone attacked the HoS. From the start of the round, the Heads of Staff were assuming there was a mutiny and tried to curb it. No, they weren't stomping on the crew to help us recruit, they were stomping out revs. Just check the bold text to see the extent of hostility the revs were getting from entirety of the crew. We had no chance against the Heads of Staff and I personally saw that violence was the only solution to keep the revs from getting stomped out. I mean, people were being brought one by one into security cells to be implanted. That's fucking abhorring to anyone with a shred of conscience.

And, just to add. I wish to apologize to Skull for breaking his trust and to the HoP for killing him, but I refuse to take full responsibility for the chaos and refuse to see my actions as a murderboner.

Edit: sorry for fuckawful spelling and grammar.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Guest

[Chaznoodles]

We go there, and meet up with the chaplain, who was also a head rev. Unfortunately, the chaplain was ignoring his loyalty implant.

 

Headrevs aren't deconverted by loyalty implants. The message "---- appears to resist the implant!" appears to everyone who can see the person.

[hivefleetchicken]

I don't get the purpose of this complaint.

Just like you don't get to decide what the backstory behind a traitor is when they decide to start killing everyone, you're not allowed to decide what the real purpose behind the revolution is. If the shift starts with a group of people already getting ready to revolt (head-revs at round start), then it's clear that it's a pre-meditated revolt. They might just be paid Biesellian mercenaries who are trying to get other people to destroy the ship as a warning against NanoTrasen for being corrupt. You can't really decide that for them. So when I see that you said "They lacked the real IC reasoning behind wanting to revolt" (paraphrased), it doesn't really make sense, because it's not your choice to design what their reasoning is.

Another thing I noticed was that you died in this round, and then made the complaint at 2:35pm (PST) for me when the round end occurred at 5:08pm, so if you're from the East Coast that means you published this complaint literally less than 20 minutes after the round ended.

...Are you sure you're not just mad you died?

[CampinKiller]

I was the double agent, Marc Price.

While the Heads were a bit metagamey (ie. shutting down people who were speaking out), the same can be said for some of the revs, who just randomly started gathering in the Chapel and wanting to mutiny, 'cause...reasons.

Anyways, after the RD was attacked, I was reporting the outcome over comms out infront of the Chapel, when the Chaplain (Azazael, a head rev), randomly comes up to me and asks me to join the revs. I immediately declined and reported to the HoS that I had just been asked to join what appeared to be some sort of mutiny or otherwise nefarious movement. I was then asked to join them in order to learn who was a part of the movement/mutiny/whatever it really was. So I went back to the Chapel, and eventually joined.

Fast forward to the Briefing Room situation, and I knew for a fact that Alder (I believe that was his name) and Goodwin were a part of the group, and suspected that a couple other officers were as well (given the statement from Goodwin that "there are more of us in here" when he suggested attacking the HoS). I warned the HoS, and Goodwin has meanwhile gone around whispering the "attack when I say life" to people. The HoS orders him arrested for his suspicious conduct, and as I start to do so, he activates the attack. Myself, the Warden, and Hypatia are the only loyal officers in the room of about 8 people. I stunned Goodwin, and see everybody reach for various weapons (tasers, batons, revolvers), and then hit Alder and Faraj (and possibly someone else). I stunned Faraj because they drew a weapon and had just been talked to by Goodwin right before the attack. I have no idea who released the sleep toxin (it wasn't myself or Hypatia, as Hypatia detained me briefly, thinking I was involved in the attack), and I don't believe it was the HoS, considering that she was preoccupied in the other room.

Just what happened from my perspective, I logged off before some of the later stuff happened due to having to go.

[Alberyk]

Headrevs aren't deconverted by loyalty implants. The message "---- appears to resist the implant!" appears to everyone who can see the person.

 

Rev-heads can be implated here, it is a tg thing, which was removed in the bay code if I am not wrong.

[Blingx3]

Some things I want to clear out, if you had not noticed, the sceientist was a bald person. and he started following me when I arrested the engineers. who were Revs, when you blew that EMP bomb in security, belive it or not the Scientist dragged the arrested engineer away from. he was in NO way helping me what so ever, he just wanted to get in what ever what was happening, not knowing who is who. Also I'd like one thing explained because I don't know why it was done so early in the round. When an Unknown went on comms telling the crew to over threw the command staff and some crazy propaganda after 10 minutes after the start of the shift ..

[Eliot Clef]

So, we kinda won that engagement. In go the station cyborgs and start fighting, moaning at us over the LOOC when we harmbatoned in response. I try and escape into the hallway, and it turns out The loyalists have released N20, causing no end of headaches to the staff, JUST for a quick and easy win. Alright, we all get gassed, and stay asleep for a while. I got pissed and logged off.

 

Hello! I was the borg who released the N2O, and consulted staff afterwards on my actions. I didn't release that gas "just to win", and I didn't like that it took so long to get you sorted out. You guys had taken the HoS captive, and while I hung back and tried to figure out what was going on my fellow borg (I forget his name) rolled in and tried to help the HoS. As far as I could tell, he did so non-violently, attempting to uncuff.

I saw said borg get flashed and start getting beaten. Given that revolution was your goal and you'd executed it successfully at that point, this wasn't really unreasonable. But I realized that if I tried to interfere that would doubtlessly happen to me and that every single one of you was armed with a flash, and at that point it was verified that you guys were very hostile and that there wasn't much I could do under normal circumstances.

I released the prison system N2O as the only action I thought I could take that might conceivably allow me to free the Head of Security. I felt kind of bad and thought I might have gone too far, but when I consulted staff on whether or not I screwed up, I was told by Garn: Seems to me like you just out-maneuvered them.

So while I understand angry and disappointed reactions, between my possible actions of: 1) Release N2O and probably succeed, 2) Attempt a rescue I knew was VERY doomed, 3) Retreat from the scenario and admit defeat, I don't think what I did was any more play-to-win than the ambush of the HoS itself.

[Guest]

I don't see why you think your only option was to gas everyone. You can ask the AI to allow you to retreat. I'm pretty sure self-preservation is one of the laws.

[Eliot Clef]

I don't see why you think your only option was to gas everyone. You can ask the AI to allow you to retreat. I'm pretty sure self-preservation is one of the laws.

 

To be honest, I WAS retreating. I just happened to pass by the prison N2O gas canister and realized I still had an option left to me that would save some people if I used it.

When I left, you were in the process of beating the other Borg to death and the HoS was being dragged into the sec pods for whatever reason. I could hear beating noises that I assumed were directed at the HoS, although I don't recall seeing any real injuries when I returned.

Overall, I honestly can't see how the sec revolt being put down hurt the round. None of you were killed and the revolution was so widespread that research was printing guns and we were running into well-armed mutineers right until the shuttle came.

It seems to me like the whole thing would've been crushingly one sided if the sec revolt succeeded.

[LilSh4]

I don't get the purpose of this complaint.

Just like you don't get to decide what the backstory behind a traitor is when they decide to start killing everyone, you're not allowed to decide what the real purpose behind the revolution is. If the shift starts with a group of people already getting ready to revolt (head-revs at round start), then it's clear that it's a pre-meditated revolt. They might just be paid Biesellian mercenaries who are trying to get other people to destroy the ship as a warning against NanoTrasen for being corrupt. You can't really decide that for them. So when I see that you said "They lacked the real IC reasoning behind wanting to revolt" (paraphrased), it doesn't really make sense, because it's not your choice to design what their reasoning is.

Another thing I noticed was that you died in this round, and then made the complaint at 2:35pm (PST) for me when the round end occurred at 5:08pm, so if you're from the East Coast that means you published this complaint literally less than 20 minutes after the round ended.

...Are you sure you're not just mad you died?

Perhaps I misunderstood the game mode altogether, how the revolution actually begins, etc.

Perhaps they have some IC reason, although I personally doubt it.

But there is no denying that for the entire round, the revolutionaries barely, if at all, roleplayed.

Yes, I was salty after I died, however, I wasn't mad that I died. It was how I died. That was meant to be an example of the lack of roleplay during the round, and I'm positive there were others that died without roleplay as well, as stated in my complaint. I'm sorry if it seemed purely out of salt, and that I totally confused IC reason with roleplay in general.

[Eliot Clef]

Perhaps I misunderstood the game mode altogether, how the revolution actually begins, etc.

Perhaps they have some IC reason, although I personally doubt it.

But there is no denying that for the entire round, the revolutionaries barely, if at all, roleplayed.

Yes, I was salty after I died, however, I wasn't mad that I died. It was how I died. That was meant to be an example of the lack of roleplay during the round, and I'm positive there were others that died without roleplay as well, as stated in my complaint. I'm sorry if it seemed purely out of salt, and that I totally confused IC reason with roleplay in general.

 

Revolution and Mutiny are game modes that are generally accepted to have flimsy reasoning at best, because they are violent revolts resulting from pay docks and temporary restrictions on leisure activity during a relatively limited work shift on a station that we all accept the characters do not actually stay on for very long.

It would make a lot more sense if the PCs inhabited the Aurora on a a more permanent basis and this was messing up their lives, but that's not how we play the game, so the whole thing sort of falls apart.

[LilSh4]

Perhaps I misunderstood the game mode altogether, how the revolution actually begins, etc.

Perhaps they have some IC reason, although I personally doubt it.

But there is no denying that for the entire round, the revolutionaries barely, if at all, roleplayed.

Yes, I was salty after I died, however, I wasn't mad that I died. It was how I died. That was meant to be an example of the lack of roleplay during the round, and I'm positive there were others that died without roleplay as well, as stated in my complaint. I'm sorry if it seemed purely out of salt, and that I totally confused IC reason with roleplay in general.

 

Revolution and Mutiny are game modes that are generally accepted to have flimsy reasoning at best, because they are violent revolts resulting from pay docks and temporary restrictions on leisure activity during a relatively limited work shift on a station that we all accept the characters do not actually stay on for very long.

It would make a lot more sense if the PCs inhabited the Aurora on a a more permanent basis and this was messing up their lives, but that's not how we play the game, so the whole thing sort of falls apart.

I understand that they can usually be expected to fall apart, but it hadn't even really began when it did.

By that I mean, what you said is that the Rev begins because of the pay docks and so on. The revolution began before this was ever announced.

How ever the game mode works, it was either a mess with no RP, or a mess with no RP and no IC reasons to revolt.

[Guest]

I don't see why it's a problem when the revolution started, unless the underlying issue is that you don't think the reason was good enough. It's never good enough unless Sec goes complete asshole, and even then people just meekly sit on their asses. If you ignore the communist propaganda guy, only reason I "started" the Sec revolt is because I was screwed anyway.

[Skull132]

I don't get the point of this complaint, either. If we took action on this, then we'd end up with no rev rounds working, ever.

The simplest explanation for it, and the one that makes the most sense, is that revs aren't there to just be disgruntled about the pay. There's nothing written that says a rev head cannot be a syndicate or anti-NT operative looking to stir shit. At which point, escalating the small excuse of pay-cuts would be completely valid.

Another thing to take into consideration for a complaint like this is this line:

They were promised the heads were trying to fix this, get their pay back maybe, etc.

You are putting your own thoughts into the head of another player by expecting your actions on the matter to have a specific, desired effect. If I want to roleplay a syndicate backed revolutionary, then whatever attempts you pull ICly to quell the revolution, I'm simply not going to care. If I was forced to respond in a certain way, simply because you were nice, then that'd mute all conflict RP.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As Skull said. Both the Syndicate and the Republic of Biesel are backing revolutions on the Aurora - sometimes both at the same time.

They aren't obligated to conform to Head concessions. Their objectives and goals are their own. If it's to cause chaos and shut the Aurora down, then that's what happens.

[Garnascus]

It seems to me the OP has been answered reasonable well, plus skull's post here. I think rev rounds are a separate entity in which a few strange orders from CC tips over an already boiling pot of frustration IC.

What are the OP's thoughts concerning skull's and jackboot's post?

[Shadow]

Right then, since nobody else brought up other issues I'll consider this as resolved.

If you have any questions or concerns about this complaint, PM me.

Locking and archiving.