Replace the break room

[Guest]

7 OR's, and 12 spare sets of tools

Helllo, fellow forum poster 'Dreamix'! You may have noticed, upon reading the thread, that no one is suggesting more than an additional OR, presumably with a set of tools to go with it. Please rectify the mistake you've made by editing your post to not include to this and take care to read more deeply into threads.

Just ignore this exaggeration/hyperbole, the rest of my post still holds some ground, or something (can't find the right word ;_.

7 OR's and 12 spare sets of surgical tools would be silly, don't you think?

 

Hello, fellow forum poster 'Dreamix'! You may have ALSO noticed that people do not take kindly to hyperbole or exaggeration as the basis of an argument, as it distracts and detracts from the original conversation.

Medbay's current mapping is already "too wide" and "too packed with useless shit" already to make any meaningful changes without being forced to remove something else. While I really do love the EMT center and its proximity to cryo, I hate how surgery is yet another jog away from the last revision, say, almost last year.

Creating 2 ORs would be difficult due to the nature of medbay's mapping at this time. It's difficult to make any "flow" to it as it stands without upsetting some other borderline flawed part of it.

[Zundy]

While I really do love the EMT center and its proximity to cryo, I hate how surgery is yet another jog away from the last revision, say, almost last year.

 

May as well remove the EMT center IMO as any EMT's worth their salt will be sitting at the front desk or in the emergency room.

[Vanagandr]

I don't think an extra surgery room is truly necessary.

You can get the Geneticist to let you in to use his table and tools; he's too busy hunting for Hulk and Remote Viewing to use it himself.

You can chat up the Roboticist and borrow his table.

If there's several surgeons, you can trot over to R&D and send someone else to Engineering and convert an existing room into a theatre or attach a whole new section by Virology.

If Urist McGreyshit has wandered off with the tools, you can go to Cargo - or R&D - or the Kitchen and Primary Tool Storage and pick up a toolbox.

In a pinch, you can smash your way into one of the above or get the AI to DOOR, either or.

Speaking of missing tools, Bone Gel isn't truly necessary; stop by Primary Tool Storage, pick up a screwdriver, some brackets and a box of screws. Fix-O-Vein is nice, but if you take the wire out of some cable and use surgical glue to attach the insulating sheath to the damaged blood vessel...

[Guest]

This isn't a medical based station. The medical section is fitted in the station to deal with standard work related accidents. NanoTrollsen isn't expecting you to have visitors who want to make you go bye bye.

Whilst OOCly the backlog for surgery can be annoying, you're supposed to roleplay situations out. Has anyone tried actually deciding who gets to live and who gets to die in emergency situations? Maybe you should try using the situation to make interesting roleplay rather than see who can get the highest save/kill score.

Basically people need to stop being attached to their characters and include death as part of their roleplay.

[MagnificentMelkior]

This isn't a medical based station. The medical section is fitted in the station to deal with standard work related accidents. NanoTrollsen isn't expecting you to have visitors who want to make you go bye bye.

Whilst OOCly the backlog for surgery can be annoying, you're supposed to roleplay situations out. Has anyone tried actually deciding who gets to live and who gets to die in emergency situations? Maybe you should try using the situation to make interesting roleplay rather than see who can get the highest save/kill score.

Basically people need to stop being attached to their characters and include death as part of their roleplay.

I agree with most of what you said but I think that a property of medical is that getting the highest save score IS good RP, because communication is pretty necessary to handle a crisis. And saving people and doing it quickly brings more people back into the round.

[EORhappiness]

As somone who plays absolutely nothing BUT medical- you have NO IDEA how much we NEED this, people have died waiting for surgeries to get finished before and there wasn't jack shit I could do about it, Also we only have one body scanner.

I suggest, 2 OR's both with tools and another Body Scanner in the Treatment center please.

This is a serious issue and I have personally witnessed people complain about dying waiting for the OR to open up- and unfortunatly about a quarter of the time it turns into anger twords the surgens when it's usually not even their fault, either that or Remove the damn timer on using surgical tools, witch Im not sure if you can even do, and if you could it would be very unrealistic and silly.

TL;DR You cant support FIFTY people with a single operating room and thats quite literally what we are trying to do. FIX NEEDED

[Guest]

This isn't a medical based station. The medical section is fitted in the station to deal with standard work related accidents. NanoTrollsen isn't expecting you to have visitors who want to make you go bye bye.

Whilst OOCly the backlog for surgery can be annoying, you're supposed to roleplay situations out. Has anyone tried actually deciding who gets to live and who gets to die in emergency situations? Maybe you should try using the situation to make interesting roleplay rather than see who can get the highest save/kill score.

Basically people need to stop being attached to their characters and include death as part of their roleplay.

I agree with most of what you said but I think that a property of medical is that getting the highest save score IS good RP, because communication is pretty necessary to handle a crisis. And saving people and doing it quickly brings more people back into the round.

 

Pump has convinced me to stand against this, actually.

As an antagonist, I don't want my target who I just murdered 10 minutes ago getting back up from the dead just because of diehard medical powergamers who are a little too fanatical about speedrunning with their job.

The station is not expected to withstand a full-scale medical catastrophe: That is why we have the Emergency Response Team. Medical is designed for the treatment of small-scale accidents or incidents.

[Guest]

sigh...

I'm not going to quote.

I'm just going to say what needs to be said, again:

-This isn't a medical station.

-Medical should not expect major disasters.

-Medical is fitted to deal with work place accidents. Mining accidents, engineering accidents, security accidents, crew health, etc.

-Good roleplay is not how many kills you can make or how many lives you save. Good roleplay is how your character reacts to a situation.

-Medical does not need an end solution to all the problems. It breaks the game design. You are supposed to have a hard time when shit hits the fan so to speak.

-If you want more equipment/rooms, communicate with other departments. Engineering always complained about nothing to do, give them something to do. If you can't be bothered to communicate then we may as well just remove headsets, hell even doors and hallways. Everyone can just sit in their own little 1x1 room.

As Delta said we have Emergency Responce Team. Look at the name, look at it. What does it mean? A team that responds to an emergency. You have an emergency? Call them. They end up being shit at responding correctly? Deal with it. It's part of the game. Again, roleplay isn't how good you are at the game, it's about how you react to a given situation.

To add onto the above paragraph, NMSS Odin/Central Command/Bigus Dickus's Crib is fitted to deal with crisis situations because it's a (iirc) civilian hub and a military level station. The latter property itself strongly suggests they expect medical emergencies. Hence they are fitted to deal with that sort of stuff. (And please do not use the excuse "but the map only has one OR room on Odin". Expand your mind. Suspension of disbelief. Imagine it has multiple. The map of odin isn't to scale what it would actually be like. That would be pointless to map)

Aurora on the other hand isn't. It's a research station. It prime job is to research. Everything else on the station is their to aid research and keep progress levels up. It's not a cooking mama station. It's not a police academy station. It's not a singularity chapel station. It's not a surgeon simulator station. It's a research station.

[Skull132]

As somone who plays absolutely nothing BUT medical- you have NO IDEA how much we NEED this, people have died waiting for surgeries to get finished before and there wasn't jack shit I could do about it.

 

Yup. That sounds about right where we want to be.

The default layout of the station is meant to be limiting in times of extreme disaster. Why? To present a challenge, as simple as that. It is there to force the player and character to think, to make decisions, to take initiative. Really, the only cases where the patient needs to go into surgery is for internal bleeding, or massive internal organ trauma. Those illnesses are rare enough where the OR only really becomes a bottleneck due to bad management -- everyone else can be stabilized, have a sock shoved into their mouth, and told to wait.

I've seen medical staff handle mass-cas situations in stellar fashion: quick and rapid triage, prioritized treatment, stabilization of patients, and constantly keeping that one OR in operation.

I've also seen medical staff handle mass-cas situation in a very bad fashion: no communication, sporatic treatment, no real thought on stabilizing patient, and faffing around in the OR for too long.

Also, nothing's stopping you from setting up a ghetto surgery lab. Nothing's stopping you from using the morgue or the biology tables. Nothing's stopping you from having a new one constructed. If you're thinking inside the box of, "I only have these resources that were given to me, and nothing else," then yeah: one OR and one body scanner is limiting. But that's not an issue of mapping nor design.

[MagnificentMelkior]

This isn't a medical based station. The medical section is fitted in the station to deal with standard work related accidents. NanoTrollsen isn't expecting you to have visitors who want to make you go bye bye.

Whilst OOCly the backlog for surgery can be annoying, you're supposed to roleplay situations out. Has anyone tried actually deciding who gets to live and who gets to die in emergency situations? Maybe you should try using the situation to make interesting roleplay rather than see who can get the highest save/kill score.

Basically people need to stop being attached to their characters and include death as part of their roleplay.

I agree with most of what you said but I think that a property of medical is that getting the highest save score IS good RP, because communication is pretty necessary to handle a crisis. And saving people and doing it quickly brings more people back into the round.

 

Pump has convinced me to stand against this, actually.

As an antagonist, I don't want my target who I just murdered 10 minutes ago getting back up from the dead just because of diehard medical powergamers who are a little too fanatical about speedrunning with their job.

The station is not expected to withstand a full-scale medical catastrophe: That is why we have the Emergency Response Team. Medical is designed for the treatment of small-scale accidents or incidents.

The target that you murdered won't remember you killed them. If you don't want them to come back you need to be aware of the cloning machine and the canonical effectiveness of cloning, and take counter measures like decapitation or hiding the body.

Anyway, I think it just comes down to robustness. Part of the fun of the game and the challenge of it is the variable levels of robustness of the crew. If you're an antag during a round with an awesome medbay, that's a factor that can affect you, just like the robustness of security in a given round, albeit less directly. You may want to consider disabling medbay or its personnel, or just cranking the carnage up to 11 (although people might get upset at you for this). If you're relying on volume of corpses to meet your goals you aren't going the subtle route anyway. From experience, medbay isn't typically full of speedy surgeons because, I believe, of the actual skill level of the players themselves. But you're right to believe that its not a bad thing to be an unrobust doctor. I think a doctor should be as robust in mechanics as their character is supposed to be ICly, and vice versa.

[Carver]

TL;DR You cant support FIFTY people with a single operating room and thats quite literally what we are trying to do. FIX NEEDED

It's a good thing you already have two operating rooms, then. Hint hint, Genetics.

[Frances]

Revisiting this thread I have to stand with the people against the addition of a 2nd operating theatre.

Does the addition of a second OR make medical's job easier? Yes. Do we want to make medical's job easier? It reduces conflict, reduces challenge, reduces the opportunity for chaos (and having to manage this chaos), and overall makes the game a bit more safe and boring. The lack of a second operating room does not make medical literally unplayable. It creates situations where crafty surgeons should have to prioritize, engage in triage, attempt to stabilize patients, or mount temporary ORs (using readily available tools from genetics or robotics). It's also not an exceedingly common situation, as it could be on say, Colonial Marines (which does have multiple ORs).

[canon35]

I find it funny some people are using the fact it's a research station as argument when we got alcohal, bars, a holodeck, laser tag equipment, equipment to make bombs, occasional drones, meteors, and carp, a fucking singularity powering it. There's a lot of things that shouldn't be on a research station, why can't there be a second OR?

[Xelnagahunter]

I find it funny some people are using the fact it's a research station as argument when we got alcohal, bars, a holodeck, laser tag equipment, equipment to make bombs, occasional drones, meteors, and carp, a fucking singularity powering it. There's a lot of things that shouldn't be on a research station, why can't there be a second OR?

 

We have luxury facilities for personnel that do things like entering Cryo shift after shift after shift and don't go home or leave the station untill they have a larger block of time off. They need a way to survive and have worth while breaks. The bombs part is a solid portion of the "research" part of the station and the singularity engine is supposed to be a proven and reliable source of energy that should have no reason to break out if worked on my trained engineers. Hrm. Doesn't that sound an awful lot like typical sci-fi we find these days? In space, have luxry locations, potentially deadly engine reactors that could destroy small planets but 3 trained men make it work? Yup. We don't anticipate large scale emergency need. Besides, it's already been pointed out that there is a secondary operating area.

[Frances]

The lore can be used to justify a lot of things, sometimes in silly (but not too silly) ways. For example, for a research station to have a bar, it could be assumed that drinking culture is far more important in 2457 than it is in the western world today.

So adding a second surgery room isn't unrealistic. However, I'd like to see what people think of it as far as gameplay is concerned.

[Guest]

As said before many times. Gameplay is meant to be challenging. That's what ss13 is basically made around, a concept of being challenging. If you remove that challenge, what's the point of playing? You may as well be using a chat box without sprites.

[Zundy]

Still think the break room should go and be replaced with the CMO Office or the Phych Room

[Guest]

Replace it with the Psych Office so the Psych is closer to the front doors and has an office with WALKING space.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Replace it with the Psych Office so the Psych is closer to the front doors and has an office with WALKING space.

I think the break room still needs to exist. But switching it with the psych office sounds great.