RD Antags

[Guest]

I really don't want to start any fights, serious debates about RP or anything else, I just want to say that I've been somewhat annoyed by Research Director antagonists.

From what I've seen, usual antag gameplan consists of... getting Captain access and then doing nothing noticable. It actually doesn't provide any engagement to the crew, past what a normal, non-antag RD can do. I'm saying that because, in my opinion, RDs have the most freedom, aside from maybe HoP, to do questionable and fun things without getting slammed into the wall by Security. It really doesn't engage anyone if you don't attempt to even skim that line while playing as an actual antag.

So, please, antag RD, just a suggestion. Step up your RP. You have whitelists, you can surely be less disappointing as antags.

*Hoots silently*

[swat43]

Let me tell you, personaly as an Antag RD (sometimes when RnJESUS feels like to screw me over). I feel REALLY REALLY narrowed on the so called 'freedom' you say. Why? Due to fact that there's always people who will metagame, people who will just wait that golden oportunity for you to make a mistake, even if it is a small one, they will shit on you, and everyone is on your neck. People will bug you, they will get suspicous of you, and least but not last.. THE FUCKING AI! This is why i am shaking ALL the freaking time. Either you get cocked by the station crew, or AI, take your poison and assume Doggy style.

Its really frustrating being an antag, if i dont have objective at all. I want to be an antag, but i hate having freedom. May as well my objective be 'Be silent and dont make fuss, examine the station untill nykies appear and get to transfer shuttle'. I am not a clever nor a creative person when it comes to antaging. Hell last time i antaged agressively i had a player complaint, and i dont want any of that stress wreckage train on me again, fuck that!

But i do see your point, i dont deny it. But i personaly feel like everything can be put against you if you're not TO damn carefull like a serial killer on a loose prying on weak. I hate that gamestyle, and dont want it. Nuff said.

Hatsune miku away!!!

[Guest]

Who gives a fuck if you have to assume doggy style. Refuse and make a mess. Burn down science. Dunno, maybe I just don't antag enough, but from what little I did antag as a traitor, yeah, more than likely you get fucked, but it's your job. And I don't think RNJesus fucking picks you on round start unless you have it turned on. Either that, or you are the most unluckiest player on Aurora.

[swat43]

What you have to understand, that not everyone enjoys, likes the thought you're giving. You see the problem here we face is when antaging, ask yourself "IF I DO THIS, will EVERYONE or people INCLUDED Enjoy this?" And then ask yourself, if this question you answered to yourself, how accurate it was. DID EVERYONE ENJOYED IT, or was it just you or was it few people. Was your goal achieved what you wanted?

And who gives a fuck? That sounds like a really ignorant question for me, because for some it's a great deal! Just because some people do not like we play, then dont even start moaning about it.

I dont want to spark another flame war, if you want to discuss this privately, PM's if prefered.

[Guest]

If you're an antag, you're not required to actually do anything command staff related. Given your antag status, you're otherwise invulnerable to any after-round stuff unless you were a really awful antag.

Just go nuts and do what is right. You're supposed to actually do something with the 10-12TC you actually get. So do it.

[Guest]

Hey, Swat. I only said you shouldn't give a fuck because you are sounding like you'll get PTSD if you get a bwoink by accident or someone gets salty. Someone always gets salty. You can never satisfy everyone. You don't have to satisfy me. You are not in any way obligated to listen to me.

Yes, there is that element of me sounding like I'm demanding something. Sorry, I'm blunt as a brick. I'm marely providing criticism. I'm giving an unrequested but in my opinion warranted feedback to what I've seen as a non-engaging antag play endemic to RDs.

[Guest]

RDs have the most freedom, aside from maybe HoP, to do questionable and fun things without getting slammed into the wall by Security.

*Hoots silently*

 

I was shot with rubber bullets and then forced to the ground and cuffed, and then released right there, and then shot again multiple times in the Escape lounge, and also had Security refused to give me a crossbow my staff had manufactured back.

Security gives the RD and Research no freedom at all, I will say they are the least respected Head of Staff.

EDIT: I was not an antag.

[Guest]

RDs have the most freedom, aside from maybe HoP, to do questionable and fun things without getting slammed into the wall by Security.

*Hoots silently*

 

I was shot with rubber bullets and then forced to the ground and cuffed, and then released right there, and then shot again multiple times in the Escape lounge, and also had Security refused to give me a crossbow my staff had manufactured back.

Security gives the RD and Research no freedom at all, I will say they are the least respected Head of Staff.

EDIT: I was not an antag.

That's some context you got there. Let me try.

I was raped.

EDIT: I was not an antag.

See how complete lack of meaningful context, reasons or time, effects the narative? Makes me sound like some sort of victim of brutality? When in fact it happened in Lifeweb. I laughed, turned the game off and made no statement about the role I played that round.

Are you going to provide context of why that was done, because, as a Captain player, you know Sec can barely touch the RD without a good reason. Yes, he's least respected, but that's because he can do basically anything barring unadulterated murder and active sabotage, before people actually start to question if it's an antag or not.

[Carver]

And I don't think RNJesus fucking picks you on round start unless you have it turned on. Either that, or you are the most unluckiest player on Aurora.

Fun fact: If you vote for a mode, you have a chance to become an antag in that mode regardless of your antag settings. Usually this is when noone else has that antag setting picked, it's also there to ensure you think about what you vote for. It's also why I don't vote for secret.

[Guest]

Right, I think I may need to step away and calm down for a moment.

Xander, mind providing the full context of the round and why Sec thought that you needed to get shot multiple times?

[Blingx3]

I fail to understand something, this is a game, correct ? why are you trying to stop players from playing it as a game? we're supposed to antag- and security is supposed to oppose that. what more could you ask for ?

[Guest]

It was a revolution round I believe, Security for some reason, got in full gear (Although no actual major attack had happened), and were going department to department searching, I walked out of my office as a group of five Officers were coming up the hall from Xenobio. I begin to ask over command why security is here, suddenly

An Officer draws a rubber bullet pistol, shoots me multiple times, and a

Vaurca Officer grabs me and forces me to the ground and cuffs me.

The Commander runs up, panicking, "WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING THE RD."

Later that shift, a Security Cadet shot me with a beanbag shotgun in Escape, for next to no reason.

Then, I asked Security to detain a scientist, he was lying about the Captain giving him orders, ignoring my orders, and taking prototypes out of the lab. An Officer arrives, asks him for it, he refuses to give it to me or that Officer, and calls for his special friend Officer, who came, got the crossbow that research was doing tests with. I then ask for the crossbow back, so that Research can keep all their derivatives secure, in line with Directive 4, the Officer refuses, later in the shift after lots of yelling at Security and Command, I finally manage to get them detained for theft.

Then a Vaurca Officer approaches me in escape, he tells me to cease and immediately submit to a search, I refuse until he can provide me at least a reason, I did not move, I did not resist, I merely said no, until you provide a reason, he immediately flashed me and cuffed me, and proceeded with the search even when the Captain told him to stop.

[CampinKiller]

Oh, yes, I was HoS that round.

The Vaurca and I were Head Loyalists. I ordered the entire station searched for dissidents, and also to try and incite the crew to mutiny (since there are no auto messages to do it anymore). The Vaurca did that to escalate it further, and hopefully start resistance.

[Zundy]

It was a revolution round I believe, Security for some reason, got in full gear (Although no actual major attack had happened), and were going department to department searching, I walked out of my office as a group of five Officers were coming up the hall from Xenobio. I begin to ask over command why security is here, suddenly

An Officer draws a rubber bullet pistol, shoots me multiple times, and a

Vaurca Officer grabs me and forces me to the ground and cuffs me.

The Commander runs up, panicking, "WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING THE RD."

Later that shift, a Security Cadet shot me with a beanbag shotgun in Escape, for next to no reason.

Then, I asked Security to detain a scientist, he was lying about the Captain giving him orders, ignoring my orders, and taking prototypes out of the lab. An Officer arrives, asks him for it, he refuses to give it to me or that Officer, and calls for his special friend Officer, who came, got the crossbow that research was doing tests with. I then ask for the crossbow back, so that Research can keep all their derivatives secure, in line with Directive 4, the Officer refuses, later in the shift after lots of yelling at Security and Command, I finally manage to get them detained for theft.

Then a Vaurca Officer approaches me in escape, he tells me to cease and immediately submit to a search, I refuse until he can provide me at least a reason, I did not move, I did not resist, I merely said no, until you provide a reason, he immediately flashed me and cuffed me, and proceeded with the search even when the Captain told him to stop.

 

I think that was me with the bean bags (I was a rev), the shot was an accident I think? If not apologies.

[Guest]

I summon the great user Contextual, to further reinforce that they are critically important to the Auroran community.

Furthermore:

 

con·text

ˈkäntekst/

noun

the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.

 

Let us learn from this and prevent making outrageous irrelevant and otherwise silly claims in order to derail the subject and make it about whatever you're projecting about.

Head Loyalists are also antags, by the by. They're expected to stir up dissidence, and excuse their conduct as though they were attempting to stamp out dissidence. You don't have to be right, but you need to at least convince yourself and others on your side of the revolution that what you're doing makes sense. They're not heroes, but the revolutionists aren't either. The whole spiel is about the resistance fighters attempting to overcome a politically superior opponent.

Furthermore, the odds of you getting antag when you have the preference off during auto-traitor is very, very, very low. I can understand being pissed off that you got it last minute, but if you're the roundstart auto tater tot and you've done nothing to either be a hooligan or even a high-end criminal, you haven't made the round interesting like most people would expect you to. People usually do not mind encountering an antag, it allows them to remember it for the next couple of rounds and maybe it'd be worthy talking about post-end round.

Personally, it's more fun for me if my actions during the round as an antagonist were actually noticed.

[Contextual]

I summon the great user Contextual, to further reinforce that they are critically important to the Auroran community.

 

You have my attention, and my affirmation.

 

I really don't want to start any fights, serious debates about RP or anything else, I just want to say that I've been somewhat annoyed by Research Director antagonists.

Then I'll keep this brief.

 

It was a revolution round I believe...

 

...The Commander runs up, panicking, "WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING THE RD."...

 

It doesn't take a Research Director to figure out what was going on here. It sounds like you yourself were ignoring the context of the round, and I'd advise that you step back and re-evaluate while keeping it in mind. If you're still upset with the outcome, good! That was the point of his actions as a head revolutionary.

 

...Later that shift, a Security Cadet shot me with a beanbag shotgun in Escape, for next to no reason...

 

I think that was me with the bean bags (I was a rev), the shot was an accident I think? If not apologies.

 

Did anything ever come of this? You left it in a void, implying that it may or may not have led to something, anything. Did the cadet just walk away? Did he continue assaulting you? Did he say anything? Did others punish him? Did they support him? Was there any LOOC discussion? Were you suspicious at all of a cadet with a shotgun? Were others? Could there have been a reason for him to have had a shotgun? Was he an antag?

XanderDox, it sounds to me like you got overly attached and OOC'ly infuriated with a situation that was intentionally and legitimately antagonistic. Just calm down and re-evaluate.

To address the OP, I'm personally not a fan of non-antag RDs, simply because they all seemingly have superhuman powers of intuition and wisdom, and are borderline omnipotent if not omniscient. Doing the jobs of their underlings to "save time" and doing more to stifle roleplay than to legitimize it(intentionally or not).

But an antagonist RD? They technically have that particular expectation, the one that says they're supposed to be reasonable, completely lifted. Let your underlings run rampant! Sign off on that battlemech! Distribute cybernetic 'enhancements'! Be an evil scientist, breed xenomorphs in xenobiology, tamper with the messaging server for your own amusement, lead a crusade on the asteroid to retake the holy city of [insert other outpost here]!

You don't have to be violent, or shady. Be a nutter, or criminally negligent! You have the most freedom of any job on the station to do what you want, and if people metagame? Just ahelp it! What does a security officer know of xenobiology? Since when was the AI your supervisor? Does that captain even have a background in the applied study of astrophysical pyroclastic flow? Call him out! You alone have the power to alter things in your favor, to open new avenues of roleplay to those around you that would otherwise be considered "illegal" or "irresponsible". Wield it, go forth and conduct SCIENCE*!

*goggles not included. But you're evil, who cares?

[K0NFL1QT]

Some antags prioritize not getting caught over achieving their goals in a fun and involving manner. Problem is, Heads of Staff already start with Command access and whole departments under their control, and can easily get Captain access, or access to mess with the AI.

Just make Heads of Staff non-antag.

[Carver]

Limiting antags (Even moreso) is a bad thing for two reasons, 1: You have the "loyalty implant argument" in another form, because if X can't be antag, EVERYONE WILL TRUST X NO MATTER WHAT THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY DO WRONG, and 2: Less possibilities for the players who do want to do something nifty in a specific role as antag. Such as a Captain handing over/selling the station to syndies or the like.

[Dreviore]

Limiting antags (Even moreso) is a bad thing for two reasons, 1: You have the "loyalty implant argument" in another form, because if X can't be antag, EVERYONE WILL TRUST X NO MATTER WHAT THEY CAN'T POSSIBLY DO WRONG, and 2: Less possibilities for the players who do want to do something nifty in a specific role as antag. Such as a Captain handing over/selling the station to syndies or the like.

 

I think that's my major complaint with the loyalty implant system.

The captain with the implant would not give up hold of the station to antagonists even if they had the entire crew captive, because that would involve them breaking the purpose of the implant.

It just means the implant prevents the captain from giving up anything if it meant his safety.

[K0NFL1QT]

You know how long it takes to become Captain? Why would anyone devote 30+ years of their life to a position and then immediately fold and hand everything over to Syndies? A changeling I could see, they jank the Captain before he boards and take his place. But then you have a Captain with no implant standing out like a sore thumb. But who cares, the player already has All Access and 'Total Legit Authority', gotta give the non-antags some hope of resisting them.

It makes literally no IC sense for the Captain to be considered responsible for the station and not even be Loyalty Implanted. Same with the RD, usually given access to the fucking AI that controls the whole place. Why would NT -choose- not to enforce Loyalty with these high power positions?

[Mofo1995]

Why would NT -choose- not to enforce Loyalty with these high power positions?

 

Collective bargaining.

It makes sense for captains and heads of security to be loyalty implanted because they're bureaucrats and security commanders who have lifelong employment with NanoTransen and possibly ambitions to rise up in the corporation. They're people who must be loyal to NT. Research Directors and scientists in general though aren't there to be NT for life, they're there to work on some project and potentially move onto another fellowship, or lab, or government, or corporation depending on their interests. Academics can be surprisingly mobile and prolific, not to mention sometimes ego-maniacal, and the prospect of having a chip put in their head to be loyal to a corporation they don't plan on hanging around in would probably be enough for most to turn down the job offer.

I could be wrong, but I figure they aren't loyalty implanted because otherwise it would drive many bright minds away to competitors.

[Nanako]

Just want to chime in to say, i've never seen an evil research department actually do mad science. No secretly building military mechs or laser cannons or anything like that. In my experience an RD antag just lures her department to the research outpost and murders/converts them, then plays mostly like an ordinary antagonist.

They're really wasting the opportunity.