Alberyk Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Remove the ability that changelings and vampires have to feed upon monkeys and get points and blood as they were feeding upon crew members. Because, since new code, it is a common trend among those antags to start feeding upon the mobs just to get points and have an easier day.
Owen Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I would support this purely on the fact that I have seen, as a ghost, the entire locker room bathroom used as a feeding ground for a vampire. At least 20 monkeys were in there. They were talked to by the staff but I don't think there needs to be a way for them to just farm as an antag and then come out of nowhere 1:45 minutes into the round and just wreck stuff up. I just think that currently, people just use this as Lings and Vampires to power game.
Nanako Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 i'd rather see a slightly more complex solution. Allow them to eat monkeys and other lower life, but give them a hard limit on the total amount of blood/evolution they can extract from those across a round. Monkeys seem like a good starting prey, you just shouldn't be allowed to powerlevel very far on them
Nikov Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) I agree with Nanako, and was considering this earlier. After absorbing a certain amount of blood/evolution, it should stop yielding results. Same with bloodbag vampires, if that's a thing. It seems there would come a point where the vampire or changeling gets tired of "fast food" and develops the sophisticate tastes of a sommelier regarding their blood intake. Lowest of all is cold blood and cold corpses. That's as gauche as serving red wine on ice. You might as well pair it with a McChicken while you're at it, you filthy plebeian. Edited April 1, 2016 by Guest
Kaed Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 While I am forced to agree that spending an hour eating monkies and being a non-participant in the round is pretty shit, I also want to point out that vampires and lings can do about jack and shit until they get about 200 blood/4-6 extra evolution points. I agree with Nikov on putting a cap on how long you can feed on monkies and receive evolution points/ usable blood, but as for blood bags - those should stay how they are. As things are now, blood bags and corpses only increase your total blood, which unlocks new powers, but you still need living blood to use them. Vampires actually have an even harder time early game than lings do, due to their total lack of anything that can silence their prey, even temporarily. Personally, I usually don't reach for the radio to shriek for help the second someone starts attacking me and instead try to react to the antagonists actions directly, but I know 90% of people scream for help within seconds of being glared. As a result, I don't feel SAFE as a vampire trying to feed on someone unless I have a decent blood pool with which to escape the nearly inevitable security takedown or AI bolt-in. I can't be the only one who likes playing antags and feels this way about vampires.
Nikov Posted April 2, 2016 Posted April 2, 2016 My solution has always been to feed on only weak, meek, impressionable women after sequestering them away. No matter what, your biggest adversary is the AI and suit sensors and there isn't much you can do to defeat it, only insist to Security that you were necking (wait don't say that) and its none of their damn business. Thought; warm, hot, delicious blood from a sweet, quivering young creature who trembles so delici... ahem... should be worth more blood points that disgusting half-frozen instant meals. Reward risk.
Kaed Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 My solution has always been to feed on only weak, meek, impressionable women after sequestering them away. No matter what, your biggest adversary is the AI and suit sensors and there isn't much you can do to defeat it, only insist to Security that you were necking (wait don't say that) and its none of their damn business. Thought; warm, hot, delicious blood from a sweet, quivering young creature who trembles so delici... ahem... should be worth more blood points that disgusting half-frozen instant meals. Reward risk. Implying that anyone who plays a meek woman on the server has any interest in roleplaying being eaten by an antag, won't scream for help immediately, and that security won't instantly know you are a vampire and hawk-watch you afterwards.
Nikov Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 It works for me. Maybe you should take her to dinner first?
Nanako Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 My solution has always been to feed on only weak, meek, impressionable women after sequestering them away. No matter what, your biggest adversary is the AI and suit sensors and there isn't much you can do to defeat it, only insist to Security that you were necking (wait don't say that) and its none of their damn business. Thought; warm, hot, delicious blood from a sweet, quivering young creature who trembles so delici... ahem... should be worth more blood points that disgusting half-frozen instant meals. Reward risk. this sounds fun. you sound like a fun vampire <3
Skull132 Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Actually, what will be done for vamp: Vamps have two types of blood. Blood total, and blood usable. Draining a living human gives both, draining a dead human only gives blood total. Blood total unlocks abilities, blood usable actually lets you use them. I can easily modify it so that draining from a mob without a client (SSD, braindead, and protohuman/monkey) will only give blood total. I would like a similar thing, or a parallel mechanic for lings. Any suggestions?
Kaed Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Actually, what will be done for vamp: Vamps have two types of blood. Blood total, and blood usable. Draining a living human gives both, draining a dead human only gives blood total. Blood total unlocks abilities, blood usable actually lets you use them. I can easily modify it so that draining from a mob without a client (SSD, braindead, and protohuman/monkey) will only give blood total. I would like a similar thing, or a parallel mechanic for lings. Any suggestions? This sounds like a reasonable compromise for vampires. Blood total is honestly more important in the short term than usable blood, and it's what gives you access to all your abilities, up until 500 blood, when it stops being helpful and you have everything. Then you need more substantial fare. Not sure how you'd do it with lings. Their mechanics are rather different, and if you lower the amount of EV they get from monkies, that will just encourage them to waste even more time eating them.
Skull132 Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Something parallel might work for lings. Basically, the idea is to make doing the work to get the monkeys have a small reward, but shift it away from being a total end-bringing goal. With vamps, the bonus is that you unlock a new ability! But because a new ability without blood is useless, it won't get you very far. Could a similar mindset be applied to ling, or do we just yoink away the ling's ability to consume "lesser" beings? It'd be easy to explain IC.
Guest Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Something parallel might work for lings. Basically, the idea is to make doing the work to get the monkeys have a small reward, but shift it away from being a total end-bringing goal. With vamps, the bonus is that you unlock a new ability! But because a new ability without blood is useless, it won't get you very far. Could a similar mindset be applied to ling, or do we just yoink away the ling's ability to consume "lesser" beings? It'd be easy to explain IC. The Thing was able to consume dogs and other animals. Keep it so they can still adopt their appearance, but don't give any gnome points for it.
LordFowl Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Consuming genomes from 'lesser' beings could have diminishing returns. The first one grants you a full genome point, the next two half a genome point, the next four a quarter of a genome point, etcetera until it eventually becomes zero.
Gollee Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 I think a hard limit would be better, diminishing returns like that would return a result of 2.
SierraKomodo Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Actually, what will be done for vamp: Vamps have two types of blood. Blood total, and blood usable. Draining a living human gives both, draining a dead human only gives blood total. Blood total unlocks abilities, blood usable actually lets you use them. I can easily modify it so that draining from a mob without a client (SSD, braindead, and protohuman/monkey) will only give blood total. I would like a similar thing, or a parallel mechanic for lings. Any suggestions? It still allows people to feed on monkeys to unlock powers without any interaction whatsoever with the crew, beyond acquiring said monkeys if they aren't already in a department that has them/can order them.
Guest Menown Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Sounds like skull has one hell of a reVamp planned.
Kaed Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Though I am not familiar with code in this setup, part of the problem with the interaction between lings and monkies is that monkies are not... monkies anymore. They are effectively people in every sense of interaction with them (they even show up on security monitors as a ?), including being able to use their DNA to become a monkey, which can then wear any clothing normal people can, with horribly buggy floating clothes. That needs to be removed entirely, monkies should stop giving you a monkey shape when you eat them. Lings have an ability that specifically does this, and is less buggy, and allows for vent crawling, I believe.
Alberyk Posted April 3, 2016 Author Posted April 3, 2016 Though I am not familiar with code in this setup, part of the problem with the interaction between lings and monkies is that monkies are not... monkies anymore. They are effectively people in every sense of interaction with them (they even show up on security monitors as a ?), including being able to use their DNA to become a monkey, which can then wear any clothing normal people can, with horribly buggy floating clothes. That needs to be removed entirely, monkies should stop giving you a monkey shape when you eat them. Lings have an ability that specifically does this, and is less buggy, and allows for vent crawling, I believe. If I am not wrong, lings can't absorb vox, ipcs and xenomorphs, maybe we can use the same method with monkey mobs?
Nanako Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Actually, what will be done for vamp: Vamps have two types of blood. Blood total, and blood usable. Draining a living human gives both, draining a dead human only gives blood total. Blood total unlocks abilities, blood usable actually lets you use them. I can easily modify it so that draining from a mob without a client (SSD, braindead, and protohuman/monkey) will only give blood total. I would like a similar thing, or a parallel mechanic for lings. Any suggestions? that sounds kinda backwards to me. That would make it so that monkies can sstill be used for powerlevelling, but not as a snack between fights. I think giving you useable blood, but not increasing your blood total (or only increasing it if it's below a certain limit) would be better. then monkeys can be food to refule, but there's nothing tl learn from them and they cant get stronger
Kaed Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 Actually, what will be done for vamp: Vamps have two types of blood. Blood total, and blood usable. Draining a living human gives both, draining a dead human only gives blood total. Blood total unlocks abilities, blood usable actually lets you use them. I can easily modify it so that draining from a mob without a client (SSD, braindead, and protohuman/monkey) will only give blood total. I would like a similar thing, or a parallel mechanic for lings. Any suggestions? that sounds kinda backwards to me. That would make it so that monkies can sstill be used for powerlevelling, but not as a snack between fights. I think giving you useable blood, but not increasing your blood total (or only increasing it if it's below a certain limit) would be better. then monkeys can be food to refule, but there's nothing tl learn from them and they cant get stronger Sorry, but if you do it that way, you will encourage more feeding on monkies than the way skull suggests. Because, the total blood thing is important only for unlocking abilities up to a certain point, whereas usable blood is needed to do things. Vampire abilities are EXPENSIVE to use (the scream alone is 90 blood, most mobs have ~200 blood TOTAL). Having a bunch of usable blood but nothing to do with it is kind of pointless.
Skull132 Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 what's funny is, both are valid options. As long as it only issues you with one, it's fine.
LordFowl Posted April 3, 2016 Posted April 3, 2016 I think Nanoko's suggestion makes the most sense logically speaking.
Nikov Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 this sounds fun. you sound like a fun vampire <3 I get kinda creepy. I agree with Nana. I also think enthralled mobs should give double the blood points, so enthralling and keeping "livestock" gives a solid reward for not draining and killing outright. Because lets face it, nobody likes dying to an antag, and Vampire is one of those rounds where you won't have to.
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