Make Death More Meaningful

[Dreviore]

I used to be guilty of that myself some time ago butters. In hindsight its kinda enabling salty sams. If you kill someone feel free to go as far as possible to make sure they /stay fucking dead/.

 

Watch as people take this the wrong way completely.

 

So when are we murderboning again?

I think what he means is if you need to kill someone youre allowed to make them harder to clone. Just dont make it impossibible.spacing a brain in my opinion is fine doe, but i guess we'll need someone to queue In

[Guest]

I used to be guilty of that myself some time ago butters. In hindsight its kinda enabling salty sams. If you kill someone feel free to go as far as possible to make sure they /stay fucking dead/.

 

Watch as people take this the wrong way completely.

 

So when are we murderboning again?

I think what he means is if you need to kill someone youre allowed to make them harder to clone. Just dont make it impossibible.spacing a brain in my opinion is fine doe, but i guess we'll need someone to queue In

 

Spacing a brain literally makes it impossible. There's nothing wrong with simply hiding a body and keeping it relatively intact to be identified and found. Why are people so afraid of being killed by the clone of the person they murdered earlier? That's so hilariously unlikely.

When did we become tgstation, anyway? Even Colonial Marines has a rule against aliens permanently preventing cloning by way of decapitation. Lore-wise, they don't ever interact with corpses. On the OOC side of it, it's awful to not give marines who died in the line of duty a second chance. Not to mention the fact that aliens shouldn't know that marines have the capability to revive their dead.

[Garnascus]

If the kill of someone is valid i dont care how far you go to make sure they stay dead. Its less about the clone coming back and killing you and more about "why kill them in the first place if they can get cloned".

So yeah, space the brain and mail each of their body parts to random departments for all i care. Getting cloned is a luxury, not a right.

[Nikov]

I have long operated on this server under the impression that habitually rendering a body irrecoverable or unclonable is grounds for antag-banning. I have been criticized on the occasions when I did throw a victim into space. I am not certain I like this new development.

I think, since death isn't meaningful and cloning easy, antags should simply become more creative than "murder X". Have you considered torture? Blackmail? Industrial sabotage? Killing their romantic interest in front of them?

[EvilBrage]

Torture?

"FUCK YOU"

 

Blackmail?

This is actually a solid tactic to provoke people into attacking you - but usually results in you killing them.

 

Industrial sabotage?

This typically doesn't lead anywhere. "BOMB IN RESEARCH, ENGINEERING GO FIX IT" and twenty minutes later, all is normal because you can literally fix/repair anything that doesn't make people call the shuttle (the supermatter comes to mind) and there's very little forensic evidence. Industrial sabotage is usually just a distraction, and only after the alert level has been raised (because doing so beforehand is much more trouble than it's worth.)

 

Killing their romantic interest in front of them?

Debatably effective, but this only applies to a select few characters - and even so, it's wonderful in the moment, but what happens next? You have to either kill them or let them go.

Death will only become more meaningful by giving characters reason to fear it. How? Hell if I know - but if we ever put in a persistent economy, having your funds drop to a basic level after you die would be a neat motivator. Other than that, the only thing we can really do is try to come up with something inventive as an antagonist, because if you're creative, I guarantee that a majority of the server will play along. If they don't, well:

 

Feel free to go as far as possible to make sure they /stay fucking dead/.

And also feel free to point out in LOOC that they'd have had far more fun if they'd played along. People always take that really well. But in all seriousness, the cheap nature of death means most people are okay with dying if they have some fun to go along with it.

Anyways, here's some things I've tried that are very fun:

• Be an organ harvester who takes everyone's kidneys/appendix/etc when they go into surgery; I did this once and simply explained that they died in surgery.
• Force another crewmember into a game of russian roulette. Create a little makeshift cell with a pair of windoors and a table and you're all set. Obvs requires admin intervention - I'd probably buy a revolver and ask to trade it for a russian revolver.
  
• Murder, cook, and feed a crewmember to the crew - then say that there's a 'little piece of him/her inside all of us' when you dramatically reveal their decapitated head.
  
• Don a balaclava, break the legs of some crewmembers and take all their money out of their account.
  
• Kidnap a crewmember. Leave them alone in a dark room and remove your undershirt. Wait for them to wake up, then walk in with a wrestling mask and your jumpsuit rolled down. Then wrestle them to death.
  
• Rob the safe in the vault. Always a favorite.
  
• Plant bombs in several locations. Tell the crew to kill a person of your choosing or you'll detonate all the bombs. Add proxy sensors for extra fun.
  
• As a wizard, pretend to be the captain after you've modified ID's and records accordingly.
  
• Emag the holodeck and announce a tournament. Watch people scream in horror as they murder the opposition on accident.

[Susan]

40th topic about this, repeat same argument about death being cheap and thus cloning is also cheap.

Also, RE: spacing brains.

If you do that, you're a bad antag. Rendering your victims uncloneable is terrible play, and to see an admin support it is kind of appalling.

[Garnascus]

40th topic about this, repeat same argument about death being cheap and thus cloning is also cheap.

Also, RE: spacing brains.

If you do that, you're a bad antag. Rendering your victims uncloneable is terrible play, and to see an admin support it is kind of appalling.

 

Yeah no, its incredibly immersion breaking and not to mention frustrating to put time and energy into a valid kill for them to just get cloned. Takes away a lot of the weight and purpose of doing it in the first place.

You died, deal with it. You can wait thirty minutes.

[Zundy]

40th topic about this, repeat same argument about death being cheap and thus cloning is also cheap.

Also, RE: spacing brains.

If you do that, you're a bad antag. Rendering your victims uncloneable is terrible play, and to see an admin support it is kind of appalling.

 

Sue weren't you the one who said being permabrigged for like two hours is fair game because "you lost so deal with it"?

Doesn't the same apply here? At least you're only out of the round for 30mins tops in this case.

[Garnascus]

To be fair on sues part, theres a reasonable level of counter play in a permabrigging situation. It takes a fair amount of charges/you get caught doing crazy bad shit and lose the subsequent firefight.

[Zundy]

To be fair on sues part, theres a reasonable level of counter play in a permabrigging situation. It takes a fair amount of charges/you get caught doing crazy bad shit and lose the subsequent firefight.

 

I mean in relation to allowing brigged antags to leave the round through say cryo but fair, I take it back.

[Outboarduniform]

We are on a research station here. His would be more applicable for a civilian station tbh. Glory to NT

[canon35]

1. No, you can't fucking space or cremate a corpse on this station. Unless the person was cloned, you don't do it. At all. The body goes back to CC and is given off to the next of kin. NT/CC can't just deny a family the right to bury their loved one in whatever way they choose.

2. Restricting cloning only serves cause more salt, I see no reason to restrict it, but a paid insurance would make some sense.

3. Dear fucking god, no. As I stressed before, a chaplain has no right to space or cremate a uncloned body. It deserves to go to the next of kin or to research if there is no valid next of kin. Denying a family their loved one is literally a lawsuit in the making.

Overall, I'd say there's no need to make any changes currently. If someone wants to prevent cloning, they can always dismantle cloners, hide bodies better, etc etc.

[Nanako]

1. No, you can't fucking space or cremate a corpse on this station. Unless the person was cloned, you don't do it. At all. The body goes back to CC and is given off to the next of kin. NT/CC can't just deny a family the right to bury their loved one in whatever way they choose.

 

WHAT FAMILY.

If you haven't named any next of kin in any of your records, who is it going to go back to

Also i want to point out that corpses are usually NOT actually taken back to their families, nobody cares at the end of a round, and very few make the effort to bring corpses to the shuttle. they just rot in the morgue forever.

The current situation just handwaves away a major part of the chaplain's job. And what do we get in return?

Dank bodybag-dragging RP? few like that or bother with it. When anyone bothers to address it, it's handwavd away as 'oh the cleanup crew will get them'. We don't play the cleanup crew, nobody does that, and so there's no fun or RP to be had out of that explanation.

Changing corpses to default to the chaplain would have a better RP effect on the round. Corpses would be dealt with during the round by him, funerals would be held, people might attend, mingle and RP a bit. Quite simply, there's more RP value to get out of a corpse by holding a funeral for it, than by dragging it onto the shuttle at the end

 

or to research if there is no valid next of kin.

This is really nonsensical, you can't just give the bodies of nonconsenting people to science. That's far MORE morally outrageous than giving them a dignified funeral.

And when does science ever experiment on cadavers? What can you even do with them. Corpses don't metabolise chemicals, which robs them of utility for testing poisons, medicines, or chemical bombs.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We can easily handwave a law that says you can't drag rotting corpses onto a public transport shuttle. Shuttles are like the metro bus, you don't transport corpses on the bus. This leaves us with leaving them in the morgue to be picked up by a specialist shuttle after round-end (boring) or let the chaplain do a funeral for them (rp-friendly).

It's already established that unless you're Command you're not getting cloned at CC. So DO NOT CLONE for anyone outside command isn't going anywhere except the Odin gibber to make some nice hamburgers anyway.

This is one of those things where clinging to an idea of realism is obstructionist for no benefit at all.