Security Access

[Nanako]

A balance matter that's cropped up a few times, and should be discussed.

I think security officers, detectives, and the head of security, should gain basic access to all departments. Same as the janitor (but also add cargo access)

This wouldn't allow them into sensitive areas like the engine room, or surgery theatres, but it'd mean they could access the hallways of those departments where most fights occur, and be more able to deal with problems when people are being murdered and there's nobody to let them in.

IT might even be possible to code it so that security only has this access on code blue and above. With no changes on code green

[Bedshaped]

Only in code blue or higher.

[ArcBot]

I think only on code red they should get that kind of elevated access. Otherwise why should they? They get let into anywhere they need with a legitimate reason anyways.

[Nekopaw]

If you give security all basic access so that they can help people who are getting assaulted, then engineering and medical would also require basic access. Engineering so they can fix shit and medical so they can save people that are dying. I'd even argue that medical should have priority over security for basic access, but that's partly because I mainly play medical.

[UnknownMurder]

Security isn't the most important department. This can be said for other departments. In fact, this is a research station.

"I think Engineers should have basic access to the Security to repair breach. "

"I think Medical should have basic access to Cargo Bay to fix a personnel up."

"I think science should have access to mining outpost to get the minerals."

Giving Security basic access to all department would seem to rule out antagonist actions. Just because you don't have access to an area doesn't mean you can't call AI for assistance. Oh no! A door blocking my way and a personnel being killed behind this door! Yeah, I can't do anything. Don't be this person. Call the AI.

Unnecessary Overboard Addition to help Security catch an antagonist.

-1

[Mofo1995]

I've also gotta downvote this, especially for research. Lot of security officers don't know the station directives or our regulations, and the last thing I need is scientists getting arrested for violating "space law" when they're carrying prototypes around. Plus, Science is a high security area, I would argue the Janitor should not have access to basic science, and on old code they didn't. It was Bay that decided they should have access rather than us. There is the RP threat of unauthorized personnel coming in and performing corporate espionage on research. And two last things: in the event of a toxins leak which happens very often, it would be unfortunate to have one of the many chain smoking officers on the hallway to set everything alight. Sure, scientists can all theoretically smoke but they never seem to. And slime outbreaks. While security is usually the force that deals with slime outbreaks, they usually need to be forced to sit, congregate, and strategize on the other side of the locked doors otherwise they'll run in one by one and get slimed.

All in all, I just simply don't trust security to use this type of access (to science, I can't speak of other departments as well) appropriately.

Edit: Stealing is also a concern. Diamonds, gold, silver. These are things that get left in the hallway for robotics and science to share. I wouldn't put it above some sec officers to scoop up some Bling on their way through.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

Agree that heads of staff (i mean personally i am a little biased as I primarily play head of security) should get extended access past what they already have. Lower-end jobs, probably not. Heads of staff themselves are expected to not micromanage or seize control of other departments that they don't have direct access over. It would be nice to be able to navigate through the station using alternate routes that aren't a breached main hallway.

Not so sure on the code blue thing. It could work, sure, not sure how well it'd influence gameplay.

[Dreamix]

No. Never. Absolutely.

This is a HRP server. What would this achieve? Just some security powergamers who exclude other departments from antag-crew roleplay even more than they do now?

Search warrants are fine (It's not like anyone is using them, anyway), asking the crew to let them in through the main door is fine, too. This thing would just encourage security to wander off into departments wordlessly ("it's a security business, don't even ask). Asking HoP's for access is okay, too. More people should interact with each other, with only the most respected officers getting basic access everywhere. This thing would mostly shorten the rounds, with security discovering, finding or fighting cults, heisters and nukeops even earlier. Do you want this?

Blue only? No. Heads would just go for code changes, instead of premature shuttles.

And don't even start with this "b-but it's for people's safety, dying is unfun". This is a game. Dying and antagonists are okay, these are a part of the game. We should not encourage this stuff, unless you want to make security a bunch of vietnam veteran hardasses, with laser rifles in hands and lawgivers in their backs, who have all-access.

[Nanako]

If you give security all basic access so that they can help people who are getting assaulted, then engineering and medical would also require basic access.

 

Engineering already has the skeleton key to the station, they don't need any extra access. They can get into anywhere by hacking the door, and if they have a legitimate reason they can explain that later. In any case engineering rarely needs emergency access. If there's a breach, the firelocks drop and contain it, and it can be left that way for engineering to fix at their leisure

Medical has the fireaxe which allows them to overtly force their way in if lives are imminently in danger. Medical often has no business visiting outside of emergencies.

Security though, often needs to visit various departments for non-emergency situations, like griefing chemists, or picking up recently treated suspects, or for going into xenobio to fight slimes. Giving them inherent access when needed would reduce the reliance on having to be babysitted by the AI, who often neglects the rest of the crew during troubled times and leaves people trapped in the kitchen

As for theft, most of the regulations and systems we have are already designed around an optimal station with a full crew complement. An optimal station typically doesn't include corrupt officers who steal things. And theere's no reason for them to take gold except for the lulz, which is griefer behaviour and admins would deal with it

[Nanako]

Blue only? No. Heads would just go for code changes, instead of premature shuttles.

 

Are you saying this is a bad thing?

Premature shuttles end the round, and should generally be avoided at all costs

[Dreamix]

Blue only? No. Heads would just go for code changes, instead of premature shuttles.

Are you saying this is a bad thing?

Premature shuttles end the round, and should generally be avoided at all costs

In this case, yes... This would just lead to code blue on a slightest mention of antaggery and security rushing antags and departments, because "it's blue, can't you see I'm doing it for your safety?". Also:

...This thing would mostly shorten the rounds, with security discovering, finding or fighting cults, heisters and nukeops even earlier. Do you want this?...

[Nanako]

...This thing would mostly shorten the rounds, with security discovering, finding or fighting cults, heisters and nukeops even earlier. Do you want this?...

 

A code restriction would prevent this. You don't go to code blue without some reason, generally an un-apprehended and dangerous fugitive.

The text for code blue clearly states that random searches are allowed and encouraged, and at that point search warrants are no longer required either.

[UnknownMurder]

By the way... You've mentioned to arrest a briefing chemist. Leave that stuff to the admins. Also, Security having basic access? I've been Head of Security and Captain and I will say this. Departments don't like when a department intervenes in another department's business

You haven't said a clear reason except TL;DR from what I am seeing is "Criminals is hiding behind department door safely! In order to catch them, we need basic access." No, you don't. You need the AI, don't tell me the AI is a bad player or other excuses regarding the AI. You have the AI. AI is your friend.

As someone said... Has no one bothered to talk to Head of Personnel? Head of Security? The Captain? Making a suggestion with no attempt in roleplay? That is silly.

From looks of it, no one seems to like the idea.

[LordRaven001]

To all of you saying the only reason for this suggestion is for "POwergamey" Admins, In real life, Every corporate,police, firestation, hospital, Security has FULL access to each area of those buildings in order to keep people safe.

[Carver]

In theory I like the idea because it'd be quite realistic, in practice it would be ruined by shitlers abusing it heavily. Therefore I have a neutral opinion on this suggestion and this post doesn't actually matter at all.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No thank you, the mechanisms and systems we already have in place work fine. This change would do little except increase the authority of security over the entire station. If a bad security officers is demanding to be let into medical on green alert "for security business" then they can sit there getting pissy until they get a warrant and it doesn't bother me.

[MrSmooooth]

I like to play a somewhat shifty quartermaster, and I have enough trouble being shifty without being able to tell security to "Sod off untill ye got a warrent!" I don't mind security investigating me, that's the point of ordering a contraband crate here or there or hacking the autolathe for cool toys once in a blue moon, but when they can just wander in whenever they want to other areas, then putting anything over them is harder. Now imagine how this affects the antags, who are their actual target. Security having weaknesses isen't a bad thing. Some contractual genre blindness is required.

[Bedshaped]

Yeah having to get things like warrents should frustrate a character, it should not frustrate a player; if it does they shouldn't be playing security.

[Nanako]

I like to play a somewhat shifty quartermaster, and I have enough trouble being shifty without being able to tell security to "Sod off untill ye got a warrent!" I don't mind security investigating me, that's the point of ordering a contraband crate here or there or hacking the autolathe for cool toys once in a blue moon, but when they can just wander in whenever they want to other areas, then putting anything over them is harder. Now imagine how this affects the antags, who are their actual target. Security having weaknesses isen't a bad thing. Some contractual genre blindness is required.

 

No thank you, the mechanisms and systems we already have in place work fine. This change would do little except increase the authority of security over the entire station. If a bad security officers is demanding to be let into medical on green alert "for security business" then they can sit there getting pissy until they get a warrant and it doesn't bother me.

 

So... Restricting the access to code blue and above?

[Arrow768]

Nope, no extended access for security at all.

If they need to get in somewhere, they can contract: (in no particular order)

* The HoS (I think the HoS already has basic access to every department)

* The Head of the Department they want to access

* The AI

* A Borg

* A Employee of that department

* Engineering (to open the door for them)

* The captain

* The HoP

* If there really is an emergency, smash in a window

I think this pretty extensive list shows that there is no need for additional security access.

[Guest]

The HoS (I think the HoS already has basic access to every department)

 

Say hello to Bay's mapping. I used to be able to walk into medical, ask if I can take kit 1 each of advanced trauma/burn, an analyzer, pop all those items out of my machine myself, walk out of medical via the maintenance to hunt down a pocket flashlight, and then return to the brig after circling around maintenance squashing mice along the way.

The HoS now has half as much access excluding being able to storm the cargo office to halt cargonia from ordering weed and zoom.

[MrSmooooth]

The HoS (I think the HoS already has basic access to every department)

 

Say hello to Bay's mapping. I used to be able to walk into medical, ask if I can take kit 1 each of advanced trauma/burn, an analyzer, pop all those items out of my machine myself, walk out of medical via the maintenance to hunt down a pocket flashlight, and then return to the brig after circling around maintenance squashing mice along the way.

The HoS now has half as much access excluding being able to storm the cargo office to halt cargonia from ordering weed and zoom.

Y'all are just buzzkills. We'll order our blood tomato seeds and discount happy pills whether you like it or not! Praise Cargonia!

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, Nanako. On code blue they can be let inside regardless. Security officers should not be getting all-access during a crisis unless someone is specifically handing it out from the HoP office. As Jawdat I periodically hand out improved access during a crisis' to trusted security officers.