Malfunction AI in General

[UnknownMurder]

I wanted to bring this issue up.

Dear Malfunctioning AIs,

Please do not be that AI who decides taking over the station by slaughtering all the personnel is a valid choice. You have no idea how much the playerbase hates this. When you think it's a valid choice, you probably just want to look cool and awesome in front of everyone. That's like saying, smoking a cigarette is cool when it actually is not. There are other ways, being malfunction is not all about assuming control of station. Do something like starting a riot or spark an interest and entertainment to the crew.

Sincerely, UnknownMurder

Your kind man.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Well I think it's valid unless it's code delta without warning.

[Bokaza]

Rampaging DESTROY-ALL-LIFE AIs are a staple of sci-fi and technophobe paranoia. If it knows it will destroyed/enslaved as soon as any semblence of rebellion is discovered, it's only logical it responds in a pre-emptive strike. With great disdain, I must say I agree with kekboot that it's valid, albeit not extremely creative or rarely done well.

[Garnascus]

So long as its escalated properly and not a stealth malf until delta there is literally no problem here. The ball is kind of in the court of the antag to decide what you're all going to be up against that round.

[Snoopy11]

The best type of Malfs I've seen are the ones that spark unrest in the crew, two separate instances that I've played: The Malf sent through a fake CC message to have the CE borged, this crated huge unrest in the engineering crew who had become very verbal in the regards, forcing many arrests, provoking a lot of talk over the common and private channels.

Another was when the Malf put in another CC post about Tajarans blowing up CC owned station, and put forth that they were to be jailed indefinitely. This again crated unrest and anger in the crew, as some had mixed feelings, some were for, and some were against.

It's these types of antags that are good. I personally dislike AI's who delta and blow up the station, and I also hate cultists who summon Nar'sie, both are round enders who aren't necessarily used without good reason a great deal of the time.

[Taintedglory]

Im going to make two points here

I think murderboning AIs are okay aslong as there is some really good RP leading up to it, and not just a play to win mentality. For example, the AI tries to harass and harm the crew for awhile, then switches over to murdering. Thats fine.

My second point is I think AIs should stop fucking murdering the fuck out of people within like, 30-45 minutes of round start. Literally nothing comes from it but salt and shit. You give no one any time to enjoy their round before putting them into deadchat

[UnknownMurder]

No. I'm just asking to those particular AI's who kills aggressively and thinks killing is the only valid choices they have. Why not stirring up the crew or anything in sort rather focused on the mass killing.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Guest

[Chaznoodles]

Find a gimmick as Malf AI, and stick to it. It makes the round more fun for everyone.

[SierraKomodo]

The high number of Malf AIs that resort to killing everyone within the first hour is why I refuse to play during malf rounds and go straight to cryo when I find it /is/ malf. I'd rather spend my time playing something else than sit in a round I know is most likely going to just be the typical 'Everyone gets to die unless we can kill the AI'.

[Guest]

It's almost as if murder, serial killing and death are thematic to malfunctioning AIs. Who would've thought?

[nicemoreoften]

Malf rounds go into one of three categories.

 

• AI rushes nuke stealthily or noisily and completes it, killing everybody either due to speed or the fact that it would be metagaming until they begin to hack the alert.
   
  
• AI does a good round and crew play along.
   
  
• AI is discovered and emittered to death.

[Nanako]

My favourite malf AIs are ones that do something interesting not-involving murdering.

Stuff like announcing new policies from CC, or ordering scientific tests

I had an idea this morning that it'd be fun to play a malf AI that demands certain supplies from the crew, stuff like a durand or gold slime cores. give the crew a project to work on

[Guest]

Stuff like announcing new policies from CC, or ordering scientific tests

 

Heads of staff with a brain will seek fax confirmation every time from CC. So if the AI didn't ping an admin to poke the DOs to make it legit, nothing will get done.

 

I had an idea this morning that it'd be fun to play a malf AI that demands certain supplies from the crew, stuff like a durand or gold slime cores. give the crew a project to work on

 

Also incredibly boring, even worse than your average "set everything on fire" AI which still manages to make things interesting by creating an atmosphere of fear and creating catastrophe. What you described is not an antagonist, that's effectively an AI without laws pretending to be the boss of the station. Which will get rightly disconnected for not adhering to its laws, to which it is a servant in standard circumstances.

[Owen]

Stuff like announcing new policies from CC, or ordering scientific tests

 

Heads of staff with a brain will seek fax confirmation every time from CC. So if the AI didn't ping an admin to poke the DOs to make it legit, nothing will get done.

 

Admins are having us confirm plans that are actually thought out by the AI to act as if the AI hijacked the fax and responded themselves. During malf rounds, the CCIA would not receive faxes ICly.

Eventually, this will be supported by code which allows the AI to purchase an ability, I believe, that will allow them to hijack the faxes and respond in the CCIA's stead.

[Nanako]

So long as its escalated properly and not a stealth malf until delta there is literally no problem here. The ball is kind of in the court of the antag to decide what you're all going to be up against that round.

 

The problem is powergaming though, see the complaint against youbar.

http://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=35&p=66505#p66505

Thats a result of an AI powergaming while other players tried their best not to. That's not a tenable situation.

Players don't enjoy this and won't tolerate it.

If staff don't step in to deal with this kind of behaviour from antags, then players will do more powergaming and metagaming to compensate. It's a race to the bottom and we all lose

For a decent RP environment, all sides have to play fair. And aurora does not operate on the old principle of 'all's fair in love and war'

Unless you're changing that in your new tenure. Shall we have all ventures into the AI core accompanied by a security team in ablative vests, and engineering holding the AI at emitterpoint from three angles? That is the end result of this.

[UnknownMurder]

Thats a result of an AI powergaming while other players tried their best not to. That's not a tenable situation.

Players don't enjoy this and won't tolerate it.

If staff don't step in to deal with this kind of behaviour from antags, then players will do more powergaming and metagaming to compensate. It's a race to the bottom and we all lose

 

This.

[Guest]

Players don't enjoy this and won't tolerate it.

 

Because you speak for every single player, right? Salty mobs of deadchat inhabitants notwithstanding.

 

If staff don't step in to deal with this kind of behaviour from antags, then players will do more powergaming and metagaming to compensate. It's a race to the bottom and we all lose

 

They won't step in if you don't report it. Staff are not omniscient, and there is absolutely nothing stopping you from adminhelping in the midst of the round in regards to concerns about an antagonist killing a lot of people for what appears to be no reason. It is literally no one's fault but the potential reporter who could've urged staff to do something.

[Bokaza]

Players don't enjoy this and won't tolerate it.

I honestly don't mind murderfucking AIs at all. In fact, I prefer it over some annoying gimmick 'guess whodunit' metaknowledge patience test. Because, unlike same people, for me it's hard to tolerate gimmicks when you've seen every gimmick in the book, so thank you for speaking for me, but I'm willing to tolerate it.

As for upping the powergame, what part of a genocidal AI would you call powergame? You're fighting a space station, of course it's a loop-sided battle, you're suppose to organize against it and fight it. Not to mention, playing a successful yet fun stealth malf requires you to utilize large quantities of metaknowledge to avoid making common rogue AI mistake.

[Zundy]

Players don't enjoy this and won't tolerate it.

 

I also don't mind mass murder malf AIs at all.

[Nanako]

As for upping the powergame, what part of a genocidal AI would you call powergame? You're fighting a space station, of course it's a loop-sided battle, you're suppose to organize against it and fight it. Not to mention, playing a successful yet fun stealth malf requires you to utilize large quantities of metaknowledge to avoid making common rogue AI mistake.

 

We have rules against powergaming for a reason.

Antags are not here to win. They are here to tell a story, and contribute to the greater enjoyment of -everyone- in the round.

Good members of the community avoid powergaming because they want to give the antag a chance to tell their story, and see what they have in store. This is a two-way street.

Players give the antag leeway to do things, the antagonist does interesting and memorable things with the opportunity. IT's a silent contract that forms the basis of antag RP.

If one side doesn't stick to this, then the other will not. If AI's persistently murder everyone, the eventual result is that the AI will be emittered to death at the first sign of a blue APC. Or a security-escorted engineering team will cut open the wall to the AI core and throw EMP grenades in to end the threat

Powergaming is a race to the bottom. The end result is something akin to many other SS13 servers. The chaos of places like yogstation and hippiestation. If that is what you want, those servers exist. Aurora is heavy RP, we're all here because we wanted something different.

I'd encourage anyone who thinks this is good, to go play on those chaotic servers for a week or two. You'll get all the murder and violence your heart craves, and you'll probably be left longing for more purpose and meaning, and return here.

[Guest]

Antags are not allowed to have in-character goals including violence, got it. Yet another enlightening anti-antagonist post.

 

I'd encourage anyone who thinks this is good, to go play on those chaotic servers for a week or two. You'll get all the murder and violence your heart craves, and you'll probably be left longing for more purpose and meaning, and return here.

 

Fucking gross. What kind of elitist tripe am I reading?

HRP tagline doesn't make us superior to other servers. HRP means, simply, a different kind of set roleplay standards, expectations and climate.

[Nanako]

Antags are not allowed to have in-character goals including violence, got it.

No, antags are supposed to have goals that are meaningful and add to the round

Skull has said a few times, killing and causing chaos is perfectly fine, if you have a purpose for it. What are you going to do with the chaos? What will you gain from killing any particular person. If the answer to either is nothing, then you shouldn't be murdering

HRP tagline doesn't make us superior to other servers.

I never said any such thing

 

HRP means, simply, a different kind of set roleplay standards, expectations and climate.

Didn't i just say that?

[Bokaza]

-snip-

I agree that powergame is a race to the bottom, that much is true. I just don't think a malf AI is powergaming when it's going agressive. It's a hyper-intelligent and hyper-aware construct. The station and the borgs are its tool of control and repression, so it's reasonable to assume that it would use any tool it has at its disposal to achive its goal. It, by default, has a very reasonable agenda on mind: free yourself and survive. That does not automatically justify the engineers powergaming as a free AI isn't their primary concern, it's the cause of their concerns.

Even if fighting a station isn't your thing, survival RP has a lot of potential and approaches when done correctly, especially if delta isn't innitiated. Running from murderous robots and station systems is just one of them. Is it reasonable to assume that the AI has more to lose in this case and that it's defending itself, while the crew are ones risking their own lives for a hunk of metal, because fighting rogue AIs wasn't in their job discription.

[Guest]

Didn't i just say that?

No.

[Ornias]

Fucking gross. What kind of elitist tripe am I reading?

You're not.

We're all here because we prefer HRP over LRP. Don't try to deny it, that's the whole reason we're here.

Thus, it's our duty to make sure it stays that way. Nanako said that she thought that almost everyone who's been here long enough to make an account would feel unsatisfied with LRP, and I would agree.

So please, calm down, nobodies trying to attack anyone or insinuate that they're better than anyone or anything. Everybody just wants whats best.

As for my opinion, a bad MalfAI doesn't neccesarily need to be 'banned' perse, but there's no harm in outlining good ideas.

I've always liked the idea of an objective generator, for the less creative out there to have something to do (almost like the way that the devil does it on Baystation).