Fire and Glory Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 As it is right now, when red alert is swiped for, any synth with the option to choose a module can be a combat cyborg. Me, and various other people who'll likely chip in, find this to be a problem, because the combat module is made to be used against external threats, these space carp migrations that come every round, Heavily Armed Nuke Ops, maybe particularly scary heisters. This makes sense because sending the expendable robot to kill things instead of the hard-to-train organic is a plus, but I protest this being made available when it's red alert, as people have probably noticed, whenever it's red alert there's almost always a borg that gets module swapped to combat, even if it's not an external threat. This does not make sense, borgs are generally not meant to kill people (aka crew) unless they have to, and combat borgs do not have tasers, batons, cuffs, or any of that stuff, they're explicitly designed to kill stuff, all they have in their armory that's not lethal is a flash, which is not particularly good for keeping people down and harmless. Red alert is not always called because of carps or pirates, but these borgs are still made available to kill some crew hostage taker, or mass-rioting crew. To deal with that, I propose the availability of the Combat module be made as another swipe option separate from red alert, as well as having procedures made for its use, basically, "Is non-crew attacking the station Y/N?" "Y" "Swipe for Combat borgs." Keep it for Delta alert if you want, I merely want it out of red alert.
Guest Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I'd honestly prefer if Combat Cyborgs were given some matter of non-lethal suppression (I say suppression in that they don't get batons, but they can get gas launchers or something). And anyway, combat cyborgs are lawed against killing crewmembers. Killing a crewmember means they should be instantly adminhelped and then synthbanned.
Skull132 Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 Alberyk has already proposed the idea of combat borgs requiring a second swipe during code red. This way, command staff has full control over when they're getting deployed. If you've already swiped for code red, then it's not too much hassle to swipe for combat borgs right after that, should they be required.
Fire and Glory Posted September 13, 2016 Author Posted September 13, 2016 Alberyk has already proposed the idea of combat borgs requiring a second swipe during code red. This way, command staff has full control over when they're getting deployed.If said idea goes through, then I personally would be satisfied. And anyway, combat cyborgs are lawed against killing crewmembers. Killing a crewmember means they should be instantly adminhelped and then synthbanned.Perhaps, but it's not just killing crewmembers, that's the extreme scenario, more often there's something such as someone taking people hostage, red alert is swiped for, and then suddenly there's a lightning speed borg rolling into the situation, lasering them down, and then they're recovered by medical. Basically I'm saying that for normal red alert, it's overkill even with restraint.
UnknownMurder Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I've had some cyborgs went up to me and complained to me that the station needs a Code Red just so they can be super-duper Cyborgs. I suppose I'm not the only one wh have faced this?
Guest Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 Perhaps, but it's not just killing crewmembers, that's the extreme scenario, more often there's something such as someone taking people hostage, red alert is swiped for, and then suddenly there's a lightning speed borg rolling into the situation, lasering them down, and then they're recovered by medical. Basically I'm saying that for normal red alert, it's overkill even with restraint. Cyborgs should not even be harming crew members that happen to be hostage takers. Them being a criminal doesn't excuse the dispensation of lethal force against someone who you're lawed against lethally harming. Anyway, combat cyborg enabling by way of a secondary swipe activation is fine by me. Command is able to control that, at least.
Skull132 Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 Cyborgs should not even be harming crew members that happen to be hostage takers. Them being a criminal doesn't excuse the dispensation of lethal force against someone who you're lawed against lethally harming. Sometimes, players are awful. If they keep being awful, we'll just restrict their access to their toys! To an extent, anyways. The mentality is well applicable here. Plus, having that second swipe will clear up the mountain of potential conflict between command staff/sec and the synths/borgs. And it also makes sense, as not every red alert is a combat emergency.
Guest Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I eagerly await to see/hear about AIs annoying command staff to enable validborg usage. And I eagerly await the chance to tell them no, just to see their reaction.
Snoopy11 Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I feel as if removing the carbine and replacing it with an energy gun may solve this issue, as someone who has come into a situation where lethals are needed as well as non-lethals: Cult round, summoned cultists you can't baton down, even with harm intent, mixed with crewmember cultists you then have no method of incapacitating safely. Giving them zipties would also be hugely beneficial, as it's a method of restraint, but it's also easier for perps to get out of these types of restraints.
Alberyk Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 I feel as if removing the carbine and replacing it with an energy gun may solve this issue, as someone who has come into a situation where lethals are needed as well as non-lethals: Cult round, summoned cultists you can't baton down, even with harm intent, mixed with crewmember cultists you then have no method of incapacitating safely. Giving them zipties would also be hugely beneficial, as it's a method of restraint, but it's also easier for perps to get out of these types of restraints. No, combat cyborgs don't have stun, besides a flash, on purpose. And as people said, they should not be killing crew with the NanoTrasen lawset. I have no intent of adding any stun or restraining module to them. Besides, this is not a thread to discuss their tools or anything, they are fully balanced for several other reasons. Anyway, I also think that is a good idea, and I may try to implement, allowing command to enable them with the keycard, because I had several issue of borgs just rushing to this module and ignoring other issues they could help with.
Arzion Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 Probably the reason why people actually pick combat borgs, even when out of red alert, is the mobility module. The mobility module is probably the greatest, best, and most beloved module ever available for non-hacked robots. I believe that we may be able to reduce the amount of people picking up combat borg by making the mobility module available for other robot modules. Especially Security module.
Skull132 Posted September 13, 2016 Posted September 13, 2016 As a note, I agree with the sentiment of not giving them stun. It'll make them too powerful and too handy. They're meant to fulfill a very specific role, and, ideally, would only be used if that niche situation comes up. As for giving other borgs the mobility module. No. It's too powerful to be issued out, per standard, to all roles other than the combat module. The combat modules amazing downside balances it out.
Mofo1995 Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Wait, I just had an idea. Can we make it so that AI's can hack to give it to their borgs anyways as a higher tier ability?
Alberyk Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Wait, I just had an idea. Can we make it so that AI's can hack to give it to their borgs anyways as a higher tier ability? Combat borgs are also enacted during code delta, if we add this change, code delta would just ignore the swipping check.
Nanako Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 i just want it to require a constructed module at research. Make it use silver, which is available in the vault
Arzion Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Guys. Code delta is only supposed to happen when the on-board station nuke has been activated, not as "shit's fucked". No purpose in having combat borgs in code delta when the station is about to blow up, is there?
Alberyk Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Guys.Code delta is only supposed to happen when the on-board station nuke has been activated, not as "shit's fucked". No purpose in having combat borgs in code delta when the station is about to blow up, is there? No, malf AI and admins can set up the security level to delta without enabling the nuke or auto-destruction protocol.
Arzion Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Guys.Code delta is only supposed to happen when the on-board station nuke has been activated, not as "shit's fucked". No purpose in having combat borgs in code delta when the station is about to blow up, is there? No, malf AI and admins can set up the security level to delta without enabling the nuke or auto-destruction protocol. Malf AIs and admins. So it means combat robot should only be left for malf AI or special rounds? The only thing Delta alert is initiated by (excluding antag modes and adminbus) is when the nuke is about to go off. When the nuke is about to go off. Why even have the combat robots if they are going to live for only 120 seconds before they die?
Alberyk Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Malf AIs and admins. So it means combat robot should only be left for malf AI or special rounds? The only thing Delta alert is initiated by (excluding antag modes and adminbus) is when the nuke is about to go off. When the nuke is about to go off. Why even have the combat robots if they are going to live for only 120 seconds before they die? No, the proposal is to only enable combat borgs in regular situation after two heads of staff use the swipping device, like maintenance access, coupled with code red.
Arzion Posted September 14, 2016 Posted September 14, 2016 Malf AIs and admins. So it means combat robot should only be left for malf AI or special rounds? The only thing Delta alert is initiated by (excluding antag modes and adminbus) is when the nuke is about to go off. When the nuke is about to go off. Why even have the combat robots if they are going to live for only 120 seconds before they die? No, the proposal is to only enable combat borgs in regular situation after two heads of staff use the swipping device, like maintenance access, coupled with code red. Yeah, but I was talking about the other suggestions where they should only be activated during delta alert. I've said several times already, and I will say it again. Delta alert is normally only supposed to happen when the nuke has been activated. There is no point to engage combat robots if they are going to be exploded 120 seconds later
Alberyk Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/1104 It is probably done.
Fire and Glory Posted November 3, 2016 Author Posted November 3, 2016 https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/1104 It is probably done. Satisfactory, this thread can be put away.
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