[Inactive]Staff Complaint: Moderator Policy on what constitutes 'Realistic Roleplay'

[Jorven]

The situation for which I feel, based on my 12 years of experience in highly realistic, roleplay, story-writing and real-life crisis situations (Read: Military, can post evidence and ID for proof of both operational tours and employment if required), I was unjustly warned for:

Apparently a wizard (Morrigan) - whom had previously bombed the genetics room that my character was sat in twice, causing two breaches which caused significant harm and injury to both my character and other characters in the room (Witnesses: Adam Evans, Lyanna Fields, Mikhail Mende'liev) followed by a third unsuccessful bombing attempt, none of which were provoked save for the fact that she felt that 'Genetics went against nature' - has decided to complain about the way in which my character responded to what he, with his military training and previous experience of being in a room that was bombed, TWICE, by her character, perceived to be a threat. (Read: Perceived to be, i.e. Correct Roleplay as human beings have different perceptions of the world based on the experiences that shape their views and behaviour, i.e. perceptions will often differ from those of what the moderator staff - who neglected to take into consideration the wizard's own escalation beforehand - consider to be 'Logical').

These are the logs of the situation for which, as my Warning states, I was warned.

My character's first attack against Morrigan when 'threatened': https://gyazo.com/7867172ff9128634d18362c3212da39c

As the situation had already happened and I do not take screenshots 24/7 due to being entirely unprepared for being challenged for what I personally consider based on my own experience of real life and roleplay in general to be correct roleplay, I cannot provide proof of the layout, however, envision if you will:

My character had just come from being bombed. Yet again. By Morrigan. He is moving through maintenance with a Portable Air Unit in order to repressurize a room. The maintenance corridor offers no space for my character to get past Morrigan, and he is in a hurry, being a dilligent Atmos Tech who likes to get a situation under control as quickly as possible.

Note his initial words, which were reasonable, considering how downright and obviously dangerous she was - read: Previously BOMBED genetics twice already, critically injuring at least four people and causing significant damage to NanoTrasen property. "Move. Saving lives."

It is impossible to see from the logs, but her character stepped back in a threatening manner as if preparing to launch another magical missile and began to say: "I'm going to count to three."

Put yourself in the shoes of a military man with operational experience both in character and out of character. A highly unstable individual performs an action which you consider to be a threat after repeatedly attacking crew already with what you percieve to be little or no logical reasoning behind it. As far as I'm aware standard procedure if you feel something in inhumane or wrong is to file a complaint or start a protest, rather than BOMBING the room in question. Twice.

My character was not about to be bombed a third time. He stepped forward, welding torch in hand, and attacked her.

I can safely tell you that in real life, under the current laws of 'Reasonable Force' in any country around the world, this would be considered perfectly ample means of self defence considering the armaments this person had at her disposal compared to my own character's employment as an unarmed engineer with no body armour and no backup standing in front of a person who was clearly unstable and prone to unannounced, violent outbursts of a supernatural quality.

The other incident which followed, shortly after: https://gyazo.com/4e8d7d794ce2b92c09795f78c0432717

Again, imagine, if you will, being hit by a fireball for the third time in your otherwise perfectly normal day.

Obviously, it's fairly impossible to imagine accurately. I've been subjected to a rocket strike, a mortar attack, and a car bomb, but none of those three in the same day. These situations are extremely high stress, as any psychiatrist will tell you. Human beings have a known propensity to 'snap' under significant and sustained levels of stress in a very short period of time.

Now considering that I was very, very wrongly accused of poor escalation... Let us examine my character's behaviour shortly after suffering a direct hit - a DIRECT hit - from a fireball. I am unable to provide logs as unfortunately the situation left my character quite deaf... However other witnesses will indeed recall a hideous amount of foul language in capital letters directed toward the wizard in open comms stemming from my character's unfiltered mouth.

My character is now in a critical condition, however he is still able to move. He sees the wizard being dragged around med bay.

I want to take a moment to ask you people how many movies you've seen? War films, perhaps? Police movies, even? What is the most common occurrence when a character - who has been subjected to a significant amount of stress by an individual who somehow gets away with it - then finds themselves standing close by that individual with easy access to... Shall we say, a crowbar?

I feel I've said enough on that matter to very accurately and conclusively sum up precisely how my roleplay was not only correct on both a realistic and psychological level, but also how the escalation on my part was very reasonable and... If that is still under dispute, then I would ask the Staff to please also issue Morrigan a warning for incorrect escalation due to her highly unrealistic and compulsively aggressive behaviour in Genetics which, as I previously said, can be accounted for by Adam Woods, Lyanna Fields, and Mikhail Mende'liev.

Please note, that none of my comments about Morrigan's character at in any way an attack against the player. I am merely recounting the character's (not the player's) behaviour at the time and questioning why one is acceptable and the other is not.

For posterity, I will also include the logs of my conversation with two administrators.

I am perfectly happy with being ICly arrested for IC crimes. Certainly what my character did would be considered a criminal act of vigilantism at the very least, and Security were absolutely right to detain him for it - IC punishment for IC actions seems to be the way to go, at least in my opinion and experience of roleplay.

What I am not happy with, is being OOCly questioned about my character's behaviour - not mine - by members of a server who similarly and consistently attempt to enforce the rule of 'Icky Ocky' as we call it. With my experience of crisis situations in real life, and my highly extensive experience of realistic roleplay across a variety of platforms and genres, I found this very patronising to say the absolute minimum.

Therefore, I apologise if my responses appear somewhat emotional. Again, this brings me back to the issue of perceptions and behaviours based on your experiences of an environment - I find the server to be a very mixed bag, with some individuals being very toxic and seemingly (from my viewpoint) being able to get away with whatever they want due to being popular, and other individuals providing the server with absolutely stirling, top-class roleplay and competent characters such as FROST, Adam Evans, Bianca Bailey, Alice Knapps (I think is the name) and Riley Findlay.

Below are the chat logs from the discussion that followed (I was unable to capture anything prior to my comment in admin help due to a server disconnect).

https://gyazo.com/608a6e8e54388c7b6bbb8f75dbe73dd7

https://gyazo.com/ad227f9b2d8a77b3625018d9b0f6b3ec

https://gyazo.com/5076447210d2ef6a52ba2e6634ab095f

https://gyazo.com/5bc051a3286e3c3ff6c1d3daa30de7c9

The final is the reason why I am here. Thus I apologise if this is the wrong area for my complaint, however this is what I was instructed to do.

I also apologise for the lengthy nature of my post, and I understand if it is a bit TL:DR, however I felt it was necessary to include all of the details and a good grounding of solid logical reasoning.

Finally, I apologise for the passionate nature of this post, but I feel that this is a very serious issue for me - I am frequently being targeted by Moderators for, what I can only suspect, is the result of complaints from other, more well-established station members who do not like it when a character responds to their behaviour in a way that they do not enjoy i.e. not everybody in the station is their personal 'bitch' anymore.

Again, that is not a personal attack, just the way that I see it based on the experiences I have had while dealing with members of the server whom, thankfully, are in the minority.

[UnknownMurder]

Pssst. Use the format.

[K0NFL1QT]

Beating them in medical was a little over the top as they'd already been shot into gooey paste by officers. They were dead when you were crowbarring them. But you were deaf at that point and incommunicable.

The fact that you preemptively retaliated upon a person who'd already caused you severe and potentially deadly harm twice already seems entirely legit, especially when trapped in a confined area and being threatened by them directly. More so when it's an antag who has attempted to kill you. Fair game, I say. Jorven wasn't implanted so there was no specific compunction not to aggress. This seems like an entirely IC issue that mods had no business policing.

[Roderick Grey]

Are you sure that burning someone's face with a welding tool after they have clearly established they could mess you up big time is a particularly sane thing to do?

If your character had the means to dispatch them quickly and without risk then sure, but he didn't, you had a welding tool. All Jorven managed to do was make the wizard more aggressive.

As far as escalation goes you definitely could justify retaliation but the methods employed would be something I would deem stretching the sane character guidelines. Understand that although your character had the right and the training to defend himself and the crew, the means you had at your disposal should've made it clear that your retaliation would only make the threat more aggressive. If somebody is robbing a bank with a gun and you're off-duty with only a stapler to defend yourself, so you rush them and plant a big ass staple in their face what have you actually achieved? Was that a sound move for one militarily trained?

[DatBerry]

I wasn't on at the time but let me ask you something, the dude who proved to have an explosive launcher meets you in a dark maintenance corridor and threatens/looks threatening to you, your only option was to smack them in the face with a welder?

I don't think that's how you should deal with someone known to have explosives.

[Jorven]

Conversely, I will ask you guys the same question. A bear attacks you - these are 10x more powerful than anyone and can normally only be killed with energy weapons easily. Do you fight back?

Answer is yes, you do. Unless your character would not, then you don't. Mine would.

Please do not sit there and tell me illogical things like "Your character wouldn't do this" when clearly both he, and I, have, and would do so again. Any member of the armed forces will tell you that it is not a case of "Am I properly equipped to do this", it is in fact a case of "Can I do something to protect myself (or another person) here, no matter how small?" It's a question of conditioning and ingrained responses, not practicality.

If you have an issue with the way my character has been conditioned however, I would urge people to deal with that ICly through a Psychiatric Evaluation rather than OOCly.

If what you're getting at here, however, is that you would just prefer it if Security handled all threats on the station and that everyone else should simply roleplay a timid character, this should be stated in the rules.

 

I don't think that's how you should deal with someone known to have explosives.

 

"I don't think" being the operative terminology. This logic doesn't really work unless you're basically asking everyone to roleplay in a similar way to your own mental state / perception of life? In which case, wouldn't that defeat the whole point of a character background?

Also.

 

Are you sure that burning someone's face with a welding tool after they have clearly established they could mess you up big time is a particularly sane thing to do?

If your character had the means to dispatch them quickly and without risk then sure, but he didn't, you had a welding tool. All Jorven managed to do was make the wizard more aggressive.

 

As previously mentioned being attacked by the Wizard TWICE BEFORE had severely damaged my character's mental state already. I would recommend reading through the whole thing please.

Addendum: A welding tool takes 2 hits to the face to incapacitate someone. Hardly an inefficient tool for the situation.

Further Addentum: "More aggressive" also made me laugh IRL. Is it just me, or are people CONVENIENTLY forgetting that the Wizard acted without logical reason against Genetics and BLEW IT UP twice? Three times? As I stated already, please read through all of my notes and you will discover that I mentioned that a perfectly reasonable thing for Morrigan to have done, would be to simply file a complaint about the morality of Genetics. Rather than assaulting four people, twice. With supernatural powers.

I could be wrong of course but I feel like there's a big double standard here between established players and those who are trying to find their place, like myself.

Even Further Addendum: "All Jorven managed to do" - Hindsight is a really accurate sight-glass, isn't it Roderick? You'll notice from one of the screenshots that I got two hits in with my welding tool. Had one of those hits not been against the Scrubber pipe by mistake, that wizard would be down. Would have been a very different story if I had succeeded methinks.

[VileFault]

First, though you have been very eager to point out your, er, extensive military record, you should note that it is of very little relevance here. Saying "I know this thing for face because I was in the military" is actually less convincing then making an argument for why that is the case with, you know, rational argument. Additionally, boasting about how good a role-player you are and how demeaning it is that the staff should question your actions without more to back it up is kinda unimpressive. Finally, blaming your problems on the server's "cool kid's popular club" is kinda immature and poorly thought out. I joined this server less than 4 months ago, and didn't really experience any harassment. It may just be the way in which you present yourself, if we are being honest. That all said, I am happy to look at the meat of this complaint...

It is worth remembering that this is a research station. Though I wouldn't argue that everyone has to play a timid scientist, I would say that when you make your character a hardened war veteran ready to spring into action at any moment you are setting yourself up to face increased scrutiny if anything is out of place. Secondarily, I don't want to get into a debate on military ethics and I really don't care if you actions were right or wrong, or whether you were, "doing something to protect myself (or another person)" by bashing an incapacitated woman's head in with a crowbar or melting her face off. The question, as you rightly ascertain, is whether these actions seem plausible enough and were roleplayed out correctly. You point to some version of shell-shock or a "damaged mental state" as the culprit here. That is a reasonably fine explanation, so long as you were really bombed and fireball'ed and whatnot. My first question here, however, is why the incredible pain of all this didn't seem to effect your engineer enough to stop him from violently attacking his aggressor. Maybe your explanation for that is adrenaline, or maybe it wasn't quite that bad, or maybe he received treatment. If that is the case, however, I would still question your execution here. So, you say you screamed obscenities into the general comms for a while. Ok, I guess that is something. But all-caps ranting doesn't exactly make up for what I see in the chat logs - feverish spam-clicking without so much as a /me thrown in. I mean, the person was on the ground being dragged around by your own admission! You could have spared a few seconds out of your busy schedule to throw out something that made the situation a little less absurd, right? Even a groan or shout would have convinced me that you were still playing a character, and not just having a laugh beating the shit out of a captured antag. If you really wanted to play it safe, however, and avoid the wrath of the oh-so-scarry "cool kid's popular club," you could have easily played a traumatized worker who, after suffering through several bombings decided not to beat the shit out of his attacker, and instead retreated inward for some quite inner turmoil. Not that you really had to - as I said, this could have worked if you put a bit more effort into it and swung that crowbar a little less.

And another thing - you really are trying to compare yourself to the wizard here, but there is a fundamental difference between the standards by which you are judged. She was an antagonist, you were not. Simple as that. She gets to blow shit up more, because that is her job. She is assumed to have a reason, where as you are generally assumed not to have a reason to go crazy unless you give, through your RP, a convincing account of why you would.

Finally, and this is the important part, you were only given a warning. You weren't banned, and the modmins were clearly not trying to get rid of you. Instead, they were point out to you what is and is not acceptable behavior. Again, you may think that you are this paragon of roleplaying talent, but what you have presented here really doesn't convey that. When you are warned, you shouldn't take it as an offensive emblem of some conspiracy against you. Instead, you should acknowledge the reasoning behind it (which in this case was perfectly sound) and try to take it in stride and improve. Good luck.

[Roderick Grey]

Are you sure that burning someone's face with a welding tool after they have clearly established they could mess you up big time is a particularly sane thing to do?

If your character had the means to dispatch them quickly and without risk then sure, but he didn't, you had a welding tool. All Jorven managed to do was make the wizard more aggressive.

 

As previously mentioned being attacked by the Wizard TWICE BEFORE had severely damaged my character's mental state already. I would recommend reading through the whole thing please.

 

I'm pretty confident I have read your post in it's entirety and I have already agreed with you that escalation really wasn't an issue here due to the aforementioned bombings. The issue I'm seeing here is is you trying to use your military background to justify going toe to toe with a wizard.

Your character has been bombed, twice by someone whom you believe to have supernatural powers. You claim that your character's decision-making and levels of aggression have been altered due to this, which is fair enough however this altercation happened with you walking into the wizard in maint while you're trying to bring an air-pump to, wherever. According to the logs you posted your character, whom has been bombed twice by the wizard, tells the wizard to move, ignores Morrigan's warning and then attacks them after saying "move move move move."

From what I can see from the situation the issue wasn't even a matter of self-defence, the issue was the wizard wasn't listening to an atmos tech who was telling them to move, and was attacked after they gave them a warning which the atmos tech really should've listened to, unless Jorven lost all levels of self-preservation and caution in the bombings...

 

are people CONVENIENTLY forgetting that the Wizard acted without logical reason against Genetics and BLEW IT UP twice? Three times? As I stated already, please read through all of my notes and you will discover that I mentioned that a perfectly reasonable thing for Morrigan to have done, would be to simply file a complaint about the morality of Genetics. Rather than assaulting four people, twice. With supernatural powers.

 

Yeah but, they're an antag they exist to create conflict, filing a complaint is a very mundane way for a wizard to create conflict...

 

I could be wrong of course but I feel like there's a big double standard here between established players and those who are trying to find their place, like myself.

If you knew anything about me or my history you'd know that I'm definitely not an established nor even respected player, I also have my fair share of qualms with the staff and their philosophy and methodology of dealing with the issues that arise. You need to understand that I'm not giving feedback to defend the warning, nor am I giving feedback to defend you; All I'm doing is giving you my two cents on what the issue may or may not be and why the kind of thought process that lead to this situation could be seen as problematic for your future on this server.

 

Even Further Addendum: "All Jorven managed to do" - Hindsight is a really accurate sight-glass, isn't it Roderick? You'll notice from one of the screenshots that I got two hits in with my welding tool. Had one of those hits not been against the Scrubber pipe by mistake, that wizard would be down. Would have been a very different story if I had succeeded methinks.

 

Next to nobody on this server likes the hero; if you managed to knock out the wizard there probably would've been even more ahelps than before. I don't think anyone has any issue with you losing that fight, I think they're unhappy as to why and how you took that fight in the first place.

[Jorven]

First, though you have been very eager to point out your, er, extensive military record, you should note that it is of very little relevance here. Saying "I know this thing for face because I was in the military" is actually less convincing then making an argument for why that is the case with, you know, rational argument.

 

The argument here is for realistic RP and I used my military experience in real life to demonstrate exactly how I know what is and isn't realistic in a crisis situation, which other people seem to fail to realise that it was - because, as previously mentioned, I got fireballed. Twice. Before any of this even happened. So it actually makes it more rational really.

 

Additionally, boasting about how good a role-player you are and how demeaning it is that the staff should question your actions without more to back it up is kinda unimpressive.

 

Didn't really boast fella. Just stating fact. Although calling it boasting sounds a lot like Ad Hominem to me ("meaning the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual"). And by fact I mean I outlined how long I've been roleplaying for, and at what sort of level. That's not a boast, that's just to clarify that you're not dealing with a muppet who doesn't understand what Meta, God-Mode, Escalation, Psychology, Plot Consistency etc, is.

 

Finally, blaming your problems on the server's "cool kid's popular club" is kinda immature and poorly thought out. I joined this server less than 4 months ago, and didn't really experience any harassment. It may just be the way in which you present yourself, if we are being honest.

 

Pretty sure that's not the case and you could've just had good luck. But unfortunately for this logic, it doesn't really work. I've stated a large number of reasons why I feel singled out, and you can't present any except "you're being immature" to counter that with. If you can outline to me examples of when I've behaved in an OOC manner - OUTSIDE of this post - badly, that would've provoked people's ire, I will definitely take what you've said into account.

 

I would say that when you make your character a hardened war veteran ready to spring into action at any moment you are setting yourself up to face increased scrutiny if anything is out of place.

 

Nah, you read it wrong. I just said military experience + conditioning. As to increased scrutiny, as long as it's in-character, I welcome that, because IC Actions with IC Consequences is correct and good roleplay. The problem I am outlining is the OOC scrutiny for having a realistic and perfectly plausible character background and mind-set.

 

But all-caps ranting doesn't exactly make up for what I see in the chat logs - feverish spam-clicking without so much as a /me thrown in. I mean, the person was on the ground being dragged around by your own admission!

 

I'm pretty sure this argument has come up before in OOC, because I've seen it loads of times. But for posterity, here's the crux of the issue here. If you take the time to type out an emote in combat against someone else who probably won't do the same, you're going to get ganked and look like a twat. And I know for an absolute fact that if I were killed just for taking the time to type something out, that person would get away with it. Further more, how often do I see the security typing emotes for firing their guns? Not once. Antags? Not once. Other players who have attacked my character or manhandled them? Nah, never.

 

If you really wanted to play it safe, however, and avoid the wrath of the oh-so-scarry "cool kid's popular club," you could have easily played a traumatized worker who, after suffering through several bombings decided not to beat the shit out of his attacker, and instead retreated inward for some quite inner turmoil.

 

a) I'm not changing my character concept just to be popular.

b) I did not feel that there would be any issue with what I was doing given the escalation that had occurred throughout that round. And therefore did not think to take measures to guard myself against judgement.

c) Emphasis on "Attacker" - she was about to fireball me again. What I did was 100% rational, sensible, and would've been done by any other player with the means and the character background. And they would've got away with it. I've seen countless distinguished members of this station get away with hitting people for far more pointless reasons.

d) Logic goes out of the window when you are driven insane with anger. Of course, most people wouldn't really know this, because they've never actually been in a truly high-octane high-pressure situation, but you revert back to your most basic instincts at these points. In real life, you would NOT have had ANY warning that my character was going to suddenly snap and attack the wizard while she was on the ground.

 

And another thing - you really are trying to compare yourself to the wizard here, but there is a fundamental difference between the standards by which you are judged. She was an antagonist, you were not. Simple as that. She gets to blow shit up more, because that is her job. She is assumed to have a reason

 

This right here is just plain wrong. I've seen plenty of people get criticized as an Antagonist for rubbish escalation. In fact, it happened to one of my friends who joined the server and was a wizard. He pretty much did the exact same thing as this one did, but got told off. Consequently, he didn't come back because he felt like he wasn't going to fit in with the community. You again fail to perceive that my issue is NOT that she was blowing shit up, however. My issue is purely, and I cannot stress this enough... That I was called out OOCly for what SHOULD have been ICly dealt with.

 

Again, you may think that you are this paragon of roleplaying talent,

 

That also sounds like Ad Hominem to me. Again I was not stating how good or bad I am, merely that I know what I'm doing. I have many areas to improve. Realistic RP? Not one of them. I've lived through many situations that my characters could possibly encounter. Not all. But most, to one degree or another.

Why does it bother me to get a warning?

Christ, I'm honestly going to get tired of the vast variety of ways in which I apparently have to say this but here it comes again:

My issue is that I was called out OOCly on what should have ICly been dealt with. Because everything I did was solely based on my own reactions to very real experiences I have had, which you cannot possibly ever call into question as "unrealistic roleplay" because it -actually happened-. What I did was entirely feasible and perfectly sound.

I don't care if my character gets into trouble. That's what happens when you roleplay something that gets you into trouble.

All I'm asking, as per the title of the thread - rather than "plz tek down mai warning plz" - is that this view of what consistutes 'correct roleplay' is re-examined somewhat - or at the very least that people can stop coming after me OUT OF CHARACTER everytime my character does something perfectly reasonable without giving me ample opportunity to explain myself, and making broad sweeping statements about the quality of my roleplay.

I'm not here to meta. I'm not here to win. I am here to live on Space Station 13.

You have to stop and ask yourselves, before you zealously accuse someone of doing something strange without good reason - Okay, why did they do something strange? They seem like they actually are here to roleplay so it's highly unlikely they were chucklefucking. Hrm... I wonder if there were mitigating factors that occurred before the incident in question? Perhaps I should ask this person about their character's background. Perhaps I should not consider my own opinion as the only authority on what isn't and isn't realistic. Would it be more reasonable to simply allow the character to be punished ICly for their IC actions?

[DatBerry]

That's more text than expected... ill have to remind the others of the rule of DONT POST UNLESS YOU'RE INVOLVED.

Just a few things to point out, antag rounds are usually not canon, so ICly all you would get is brig time, sometimes thats fair, sometimes you get bwoinked, In cases its something that would usually get your character fired and without a very proper reason AND execution.

Ad-hom is using personal attacks instead of an argument not adding personal attacks to an argument.

Ill have to get on my computer before making bigger replies but for now please use the format for staff complaints, we could just bin this for not following it.

[Snoopy11]

I was Azza Nazkiin this round, and I directly observed the events that took place and I can say what did take place was shitty roleplay.

We found the wizard in the medical bay maintenance area, and I had been talking for them for some time, to get them to see reason, to come to the brig, to hand themselves over and stop what they were doing. The conversation was, although like going around like a broken record, taking place and slowly getting somewhere.

Queue Jorven enters the maintenance area where we were located, dragging a pump. The wizard was standing in the way of the maint area. I believe I had told he and the detective to leave, and again, but the second time was cut short due to the lack of air being in the area.

Now this is where I take issue, due to the wizard refusing to get out of the way, Jorven pulls out a welding tool, lights it, and runs at the wizard and attacks. While security was there, in plain sight, dealing with the situation of a volatile, clearly dangerous person who has caused more than a few explosions. I believe in my own opinion this constituted as shitty roleplay, and that realistically you wouldn't run up to attack someone while armed forces are there dealing with the situation.

[Taintedglory]

I will vouch for Jorven saying that we are indeed ingrained in the military to fight, not flight, as hard as possible. We are forced into every fiber of our being to protect ourselves or others at all costs.

But I mean, the meme that every body on the station is a harden grisly War Veteran from space military is tiring and the server as a whole are trying to move away from that direction. They are enforcing this realistic Roleplay policy to make it where not every person on the station has a military background like its been in the past. Its quite literally an out of control meme and they got to step in and try to purge it as hard as they can. I've seen alot of IC records, and its cringe. Most of Engineering has the "Ex-Military of XX years with medals and accommodations" In their records. While that can be realistic, because I know I went into the service to become an Engineer IRL, its just out of control and annoying. Players use this IC background to be able to validate antags or go ham bone on people with combat.

Also, attacking with a Welder torch is a realistically viable option, just cause ingame it does shit damage doesn't mean squat. If I pulled out a welders torch IRL and hit someone with it, it would fucking hurt. But the reasoning behind hitting someone with it, well, Iunno about that shit. That doesn't sound like the person is sound of mind.

[Jorven]

Salty because Jorven ruined my chance to be a hero and attacked me back in a previous round when I assaulted him for a stupid reason.

 

^ Also not Ad Hominem because apparently someone wrongly claiming I was boasting and acting the big time doesn't constitute that and the way I understood DatBerry's reply - he basically called 'fair game' on personal attacks directed toward me so I'm gonna do the same.

"Shitty roleplay" is certainly rich coming from someone who was attempting to single-handedly negotiate with a character who had done absolutely everything to warrant a fully-armed team of riflemen gunning them down. While also obstructing repair operations by doing so in a major arterial route for engineering personnel ---> Medical.

Either the character is a downright muppet and should not be trusted to negotiate with an unstable person, or you weren't roleplaying their level of intelligence correctly.

Anyway.

 

That doesn't sound like the person is sound of mind.

 

He wasn't. He was only acting on what he was trained to do at this point.

#1 - Repressurize a breached room as quickly as possible. By the quickest route possible. Maintenance is a beeline from Engineering to Medical and for some reason Azza had chosen to obstruct cleanup operations with a poorly-thought-out negotiation attempt with a highly dangerous terrorist.

#2 - Defend self. Pre-emptively if needed.

Sorry if that wasn't clear but yeah, that's basically why. No person in their right mind would actually continue to work after being bombed twice already.

Unrelated tangent to what you said - Of course if we're getting into the nitty-gritty of realistic roleplay, I am -surprised- that members of a station so interested in what they consider to be realism didn't think to contain any injured personnel and give them proper treatment for trauma and injuries. Any manager knows that you don't send someone back to work on the same day when they are subjected to a stressful event. But obviously there wasn't anything you individually could do about that, I'm just pointing out another hypocritical flaw in the level of realism that was exhibited during that round - the elephant in the room, so to speak.

I mean, aside from the fact that the Wizard had no reason to bomb genetics of course and still did. But antag so is okay to murderbone just because you didn't get the attention you want.

Back to your reply - I appreciate you backing me up about the military mindset thing, I was wondering if anyone else would actually understand.

I didn't actually know that anyone else did roleplay characters with a military history. I've certainly never met any and I often take the time to check out other people's characters or engage them in conversation (often people don't actually talk though, or aren't chatty). Though I apologise for adding to what is apparently a cliche already... Really had no idea.

I can't really change the background though, I pretty much based the character on myself in many ways and I like to stick to things that I know and understand rather than trying to roleplay something that I'm not comfortable with. But I'll bear in mind what you've said about a lot of people doing rambo stuff because of an ex-military character.

I will certainly make sure mine doesn't do that, he just wants to work and stay alive. *nod* Honestly the only reason the history even plays such a big part now is because in my mind, what I did was perfectly realistic because it was 100% something that I, personally, would have done. And people are telling me it's not real, which is pretty insulting because I've basically lived through similar situations and they're basically telling me that I'm lying.

*shrug*

 

please use the format for staff complaints

 

After seeing the kind of replies and the majority of people I'm dealing with (save a few exceptions) I don't see any point in re-formatting my original post. I'm happy for this issue to be closed, as I think that people are clearly unable to see realism from the point of view of someone with very real life experiences.

* * *

I am sorry you all felt my character was a bit god moddy or overpowered in that situation.

He's not, simple as that. You're wrong. I just did what seemed like the logical thing, to me. Whether or not you agree is up to you, but nothing you ever say will change the irrefutable fact that a logical process of what I personally would do in that situation led towards the decisions my character made. Therefore it was realistic.

All that's going to happen at the end of this, is that I'll just keep my head down and tread on eggshells while I roleplay, I'm fine with that.

Of course, naturally, since the Moderators all wish to help, I will naturally be using ahelp a lot more often to resolve a very staggering number of issues that I often have with the realism of other characters who attack mine. That seems fair to me.

The only regrets I have from this post are that I didn't whine like a little butthurt bitch to the moderators when Morrigan burst into genetics and screamed "THIS IZ WRANG WHUR IZ THE MORALITEE" followed by "LAIF IZ SEKRED" before throwing a shit ton of fireballs and breaching four people - which, incidentally could've ended their 'sacred' lives and altered the course of nature by abusing her powers in a similar way to how she felt Genetics were.

But then again, that's hardly unrealistic, because Hypocrisy is a very common trait among those with power, isn't it?

Still, a complaint about that, unless of course, there are double standards as I predicted there would be, probably would've stopped all of this is in its tracks.

Final quote to reinforce the voice of reason here:

 

Beating them in medical was a little over the top as they'd already been shot into gooey paste by officers. They were dead when you were crowbarring them. But you were deaf at that point and incommunicable.

The fact that you preemptively retaliated upon a person who'd already caused you severe and potentially deadly harm twice already seems entirely legit, especially when trapped in a confined area and being threatened by them directly. More so when it's an antag who has attempted to kill you. Fair game, I say. Jorven wasn't implanted so there was no specific compunction not to aggress. This seems like an entirely IC issue that mods had no business policing.

 

Here's a thought - maybe my character could get Borged and Lawed? I'd certainly be happy with that as an IC consequence to wrap all of this up! He does need to be punished for what is basically borderline vigilantism.

[Snoopy11]

Salty because Jorven ruined my chance to be a hero and attacked me back in a previous round when I assaulted him for a stupid reason.

 

^ Also not Ad Hominem because apparently someone wrongly claiming I was boasting and acting the big time doesn't constitute that and the way I understood DatBerry's reply - he basically called 'fair game' on personal attacks directed toward me so I'm gonna do the same.

 

[Jorven]

Thanks for verifying that I was indeed referring to your position on the matter.

[Bygonehero]

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs.

[TrickingTrapster]

Hum. After reading through all of this, I think I see a bit of miscommunication in here. What the OP is saying is that different people have different mindsets on things. Fair enough, one person is scared of spiders while the other keeps them as pets, for example. So one person is less afraid of guns than the other. Or explosives. And while the arguments the OP makes do make sense, he should also understand that we, as mods, not only need to let people adhere to the rules, but also need to keep the game fun for everyone. Hence why you get bwoinked if you suddenly start attacking someone. Why don't you try emoting grabbing crowbar and walking towards the victim? I get that emotes are hard to do during combat, but before and after should be doable. From what I've read in this thread, your intentions were fine, but the execution was flawed. When the wizard stepped back and threatened you, that's a sign they are willing to RP the situation out. They will most likely give you time to type out an emote or say, and rushing them in that situation is quite a dick move, even if they bombed you twice. Should you have typed an emote before you jumped her, I'm quite certain it would have been a much more fun situation for everyone. Especially in the medbay situation, where the antag was in no condition to fight back, an emote or two before you attack goes a long way. I think you should keep that in mind next time, the game needs to be as fun as possible for everyone, straight combat is not the optimal solution to a character snapping.

[Shadow]

OP didn't reply in ages.

Archiving.