[Processing] Dr. Crane's Vibrating Blue Squirrel

[Bsmiffy78]

Right...I'm just going to stop arguing because at this point it's really a waste of my time...my personal opinion that I cease to drop has been made. This application is trollish, provides minimal role play and is in my opinion horrendously unrealistic. End of discussion, end of argument.

[LordFowl]

It may be the end of your participation in the argument, however your participation is not integral. Now, I am not the opponent of discussion or critique, but I don't like it when you assume a tone that makes it seem as if you have a final executive decision on the matter; I respect your opinion, and I say that it doesn't change my opinion. Furthermore, I find your opinion to be offensive; as implying that the application is trollish by extent implies that I am trollish, and implying that it provides minimal roleplay implies that I am incapable of creating roleplay around a simple object.

The discussion is not ended merely by you leaving it, because it does not rely on you. I do NOT want to engage in an aggressive tone in this application further from this point, because I don't think the people who look over custom items and decline or accept them really appreciate it. I do not intend to demean your feedback, smiffy, so I humbly am grateful for it, though I reject it. I civilly open the doors to further critique, and would appreciate any comments that I can use to construct this application further.

And as to the idea that monkeys and mice and other animals can be used just as well as squirrels, would a vibrating blue orangutan make this application any better? I don't think the kind of animal really matters, its simply that I found a squirrel the easiest to sprite.

[Guest]

This application is trollish, provides minimal role play and is in my opinion horrendously unrealistic.

 

Completely agree. I'm curious as to how this is still open for debate. It's an obvious, minimal-effort shitpost.

[LordFowl]

I'm offended. If you're critique is only going to be rude and abrasive, please keep it to yourself. I'm not even going to bother responding to that kind of comment in any other way. I will say however that your conception of "minimal-effort" seems to be a throw-away insult; if it pleases I could write an entire book on the morphology of the damn squirrel, but I've modelled the amount of effort put into this application to the other applications submitted so as to not be to little or to much.

[mirkoloio]

Somehow... in my oppinion... LordFowl has kinda beaten every counter-arguement of yours with pure logic. It is amusing to read this and I see this as a serious app. And hey, Why not?

His points are convincing to me. +1

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, unless he somehow learns to code in BYOND and gets access to wherever our server's code is stored, I think it can safely be said that it's not going to happen in the near future, at least until there's a forecast of snow in Hell.

[SgtSammac]

Well, unless he somehow learns to code in BYOND and gets access to wherever our server's code is stored, I think it can safely be said that it's not going to happen in the near future, at least until there's a forecast of snow in Hell.

 

I do believe thats Skulls/Admin/Mod combined decision?

[Guest]

I'm offended. If you're critique is only going to be rude and abrasive, please keep it to yourself. I'm not even going to bother responding to that kind of comment in any other way. I will say however that your conception of "minimal-effort" seems to be a throw-away insult; if it pleases I could write an entire book on the morphology of the damn squirrel, but I've modelled the amount of effort put into this application to the other applications submitted so as to not be to little or to much.

 

Then please answer this question in the most simplest fashion: Why do you need a vibrating blue squirrel that has decayed radioactive material as its composition?

[Gollee]

Right, this is wrong.

 

At this point its completely de-radiated.

 

By this simple statement, you have proven that you have no idea what you are talking about.

To be radiative, a body must emit something, generally, but by no means limited to the electromagnetic spectrum.

This object in question, is (by your own admission) 40-50 years old, and it is emitting blue light, at a high intensity, and not only that, it is also radiating thermal energy through vibration, which could only be caused by intense radiative emission, even taking bluespace physics into account.

And the last note, you have stated in the original post that it was experimentation that left it in it's preserved state, not taxidermy, which means it is killing bacterial, fungal and other decomposers near-instantly.

The blunt fact of the matter, while suspension of disbelief is a thing, being in the same room as this squirrel would be more dangerous than going for a relaxed swim in Chenobyl's spent fuelrod storage pool. You obviously have completely no knowledge of even basic physics if you think this is going to not be radioactive; even less knowledge of workplace acceptable objects if you think that this would pass NT customs.

And, dare I say, a complete disregard of the idea of heavy-RP, this sort of shit might be acceptable on Goon, TG, or, hell, maybe Alium, but it is bloody stupid on a heavy-RP server.

Throwing around a posh vocabulary and treating others like they are inferior to your more valued opinion doesn't make you right, it makes you a condescending idiot that people will argue against, simply because you are unpleasant to be around; I have never seen you in game, but your conduct here is enough that when I see you in the Who list, I don't want to play, I don't want to deal with someone who is utterly convinced of their own superiority.

[LordFowl]

I apologize ever so greatly, Gollee, for even possibly ever being rude to people who refer to my post as, for example, a "shitpost", or perhaps a bit condescending to people who appear to give it no more than a glance before deeming it completely a waste of their observation. I apologize ever so thoroughly for that fault in my moral character. However, I thank you for taking at least some time in researching your own retort. Your application of your time is well appreciated, and I am grateful that you've applicated it here.

To be quite honest, I find it ironic that in accusing me of throwing around "posh" vocabulary and condescension, you respond slightly in ilk. Fight fire with fire, I suppose? Nevertheless, it is not for me to dwell on the formula of response, but rather the meat of it. That is to say, it is possible that by OOC knowledge of radioactive physics may be a bit rusty, which means my response may seem a bit clunky to your brilliant retort; but let it be known that in saying it was de-radiated I referred to the conventional forms of radiation we are all familiar with, and exist in reality. I was discluding Bluespace energy radiations from this list. In fact, it is the presence of Bluespace radiation that validates the existence of this item; as an item of research. The effects of items passing through Bluespace are not wholly well recorded, and indeed it is entirely possible that certain items when passing through Bluespace may defy the laws of physics; as the very idea of Bluespace itself does. While I would love for the physics of Bluespace to disprove that the idea of this is impossible (as you yourself seem to be taking the bluespace physics "into account") I cannot for the life of me finding any source the describes anything but the history of Bluespace's discovery; simply to say that there seems to be no confirmed physics whatsoever for how Bluespace operates, and understandably so, because Bluespace really can't be expected to have a law of physics that is comparable to our own when people can travel through it at 1000x times Light Speed at not feel any mal-effect. While I will admit the object in question may pose as a subliminal source of radiating energy, I cannot say that these energies are harmful to larger organics even at the longest conceivable rates of exposures (Considering that it is only on the station for shift periods, the time of exposure is not extremely long). Again, I profess no professional or even adept understanding of the higher concepts of radiative energies, however I hold by this opinion, considering the almost mythical (Because to be quite honest Bluespace science is only science in the way only Sci-Fi can achieve) source of its origin.

Moving past my perhaps fumbling discourse on Bluespace radiation, we move to the concept I hold to be more important, and am more familiar with; heavy roleplay. I again see absolutely NO reason why this item contradicts the possibility of heavy roleplay. Elaborate more thoroughly on this point, as it merely being a blue squirrel doesn't really cut it. We achieve serious roleplay with equally and more ridiculous concepts (I mean, we are achieving roleplay on a game engine that had CLOWNS as a corporate occupation, there is plenty of slapstick that the Aurora devs haven't purged.) Furthermore, I am of the opinion that a certain amount of slapstick does not detract from heavy roleplay. Heavy roleplay is not in my book synonymous with "super duper serious drab corporate roleplay 24/7", and I am sure that when I put it in those admittedly mocking terms, many would agree on basis of form.

Regarding the entire formula of your response (Didn't I say I wouldn't go into your formula? What a liar I am!) I can only label some portions of it, in particular the last paragraph, as personal attacks. I have been for the most part modest and reasonable in my discourse, and my apparent throwing about of "posh" vocabular is, if it exists at all, merely a force of my own nature; and not a force of maliciousness. I am not trying to demean anyone's opinion by sticking to my own. I will admit however that I refuse to release my opinion unless overwhelming evidence is presented against it, and even then perhaps not. I suppose it can be said I'm stubborn.

Also, as to 1138, I think I've explained the necessity of the blue squirrel before; so please do read previous posts for further information on the subject. However, to put is simply, it is indeed designed for roleplay, and not for tossing at people as some sort of blunt and slightly humorous projectile, as you might believe.

Finally, in conclusion to this admittedly long-winded post, I would like to declare a revisal of the age of this squirrel, from 40-45 (The extreme end of that range being impossible due to the fact that Bluespace was discovered in 2413) to the more comfortable and absolute 38 years of age. I apologize in advance and in post for any feelings I may have wounded with my "posh" vocabular and my "condescending attitude", which I again state are likely imaginary affects, but still affects that surely effect. To wound is not my goal in this discourse.

[Gollee]

That is to say, it is possible that by OOC knowledge of radioactive physics may be a bit rusty, which means my response may seem a bit clunky to your brilliant retort; but let it be known that in saying it was de-radiated I referred to the conventional forms of radiation we are all familiar with, and exist in reality. I was discluding Bluespace energy radiations from this list. In fact, it is the presence of Bluespace radiation that validates the existence of this item; as an item of research.

 

The fact that it glows with high-energy light, into the ultraviolet spectrum means it is radiative, and dangerous to humans.

Vibration -> Kinetic energy -> Infrared emission.

If it is vibrating constantly, for 38 years, it has a truly immense power source behind it, such a power source would not be limited to the infrared spectrum; likely emitting in the microwave and radio wave spectrums at the bare minimum. That thing is dangerously radioactive.

Killing decomposers: What can kill small organics can easily harm large organics. In this case, it can either be done with radiation, or chemicals.

-Chemicals would not stick around for 38 years, so we can void that.

-Radiation is therefore the only viable option, which means it is emitting at the high end of the electromagnetic spectrum; UV, Xrays, Gamma rays. Going near it will expose you to high levels of radiation.

 

because Bluespace really can't be expected to have a law of physics that is comparable to our own when people can travel through it at 1000x times Light Speed at not feel any mal-effect. While I will admit the object in question may pose as a subliminal source of radiating energy, I cannot say that these energies are harmful to larger organics even at the longest conceivable rates of exposures (Considering that it is only on the station for shift periods, the time of exposure is not extremely long). Again, I profess no professional or even adept understanding of the higher concepts of radiative energies, however I hold by this opinion, considering the almost mythical (Because to be quite honest Bluespace science is only science in the way only Sci-Fi can achieve) source of its origin.

 

It doesn't matter in the slightest what the Bluespace physics consist of in this scenario. The squirrel is in our dimension, and is therefore subject to our laws of physics; if it was inside Bluespace, it would be different, but it is not. It either consists nearly entirely of exotic matter, such as negative matter; which would be incredibly dangerous, so much so that touching it would rip your hand into it's constituent atoms.

The other option is that it is highly, highly, highly radioactive.

 

Regarding the entire formula of your response (Didn't I say I wouldn't go into your formula? What a liar I am!) I can only label some portions of it, in particular the last paragraph, as personal attacks. I have been for the most part modest and reasonable in my discourse, and my apparent throwing about of "posh" vocabular is, if it exists at all, merely a force of my own nature; and not a force of maliciousness. I am not trying to demean anyone's opinion by sticking to my own. I will admit however that I refuse to release my opinion unless overwhelming evidence is presented against it, and even then perhaps not. I suppose it can be said I'm stubborn.

 

Yes, this app isn't just about the item, it is also about whether the player in question can be trusted enough to gain the item; from my position on your forum conduct, as I have not seen you in game, I do not believe you should be given this item on that point.

[LordFowl]

It does not vibrate constantly; it only vibrates and glows when moderate to extreme pressure is applied to to it; thus it has not been doing this processes constantly for thirty eight years. I believe I said this somewhere else on this thread; but I may not have clarified on the topic thoroughly.

You seem to only consider two options, and I present a third. It is possible (In fact it was always my idea), that the squirrel has been petrified, as in its exoderm has been solidified to such a state as to warrant it no longer sustenance for a decomposer, through some process.

Discluding these two points to some degree, since I have explained them to some degree, I say that the squirrel is not "highly, highly, highly radioactive" as you say, but it is possible that it may be composed of some exotic and likely not extremely dangerous matter that is unique to the dimension of Bluespace, into which the squirrel has through some process transmogrified. Not all exotic things need be dangerous, it is only that the few exotic matters we are familiar with in this universe happen to be dangerous.

Finally, on the topic of my forum conduct, I once again say I see no fault in it. Any of this "posh" vocabulary or condescension is either a misunderstanding or miscommunication with us that I have tried to repair with my profusely apologetic nature, or some phantasm being placed upon my person in post as some sort of personal jab to be applied to your post to possibly "take me down a peg" (Or more likely to make me drop my opinion on the squirrel.). I find this last possibility an IMpossibility, however it still deserved to be noted.

[Frances]

I don't really care about the "is scientifically accurate" bit. That's for you and lorepeople to figure out. (Though I have to say I am seeing some heaaaavy nitpicking regarding whether the squirrel would be radioactive or not. I'm issuing a reminder we've got races of anthro cats and lizards, and no one is raising any objections about how realistic/possible that is.)

But as far as gameplay/immersion goes, I can say I've got no issue with it. Science is by definition full of wacky things, and for once this is one that isn't about to kill anyone, and doesn't try way too hard to look ridiculously badass.

Totally fits in our universe, really. Scientists should have more of their own custom, wacky contraptions.

[Gollee]

Discluding these two points to some degree, since I have explained them to some degree, I say that the squirrel is not "highly, highly, highly radioactive" as you say, but it is possible that it may be composed of some exotic and likely not extremely dangerous matter that is unique to the dimension of Bluespace, into which the squirrel has through some process transmogrified. Not all exotic things need be dangerous, it is only that the few exotic matters we are familiar with in this universe happen to be dangerous.

 

Matter that is unique to bluespace would not function in our dimension; if you take a piece of matter from dimension Y, where, for example, hadrons are made up of both positive and negative matter in the same particle, then put it into our dimension; it would now be under the effect of our laws of physics, regardless of where it came from, and it would likely dissolve into pure energy. As an example.

Whether it is exotic matter or not, the fact that it glows and vibrates when compressed means significant energy is being released; blue light is at the top end of the visible spectrum, and the emission would not end there; the vibration is an emission of thermal energy, which would have to come from either the force of compression, or something breaking down; releasing radiation.

If the exotic matter it is made of somehow survives under normal physics, then you said yourself that it isn't fully known what the effects of the matter is; so there is no way that it would be allowed to leave the lab, as it would be considered the lab's property, very valuable, and possibly highly dangerous, as they don't know what it can do.

So, two points for you to answer:

1. What sort of pressure causes the effects, and where is the energy from the vibration/glowing coming from?

2. Why would the lab release an unknown material, that has a high possibility of being dangerous, as well as likely being worth a massive amount; to one of their workers, when it belongs to them?

[Dea Tacita]

Please. Stop.

The scientific side is relevant only to a point, a point that has been far since surpassed.

I'm personally against this because it's hardly seriously, I doubt seriously it'd promote roleplay for anything beyond "Oh, you have a blue squirrel corpse...I'll stay away from you now." While I'm certainly in agreement with Frances that scientists could have more contraptions of their own design. I think this is excessive. But yeah, this is my opinion.

Also, I'm severely disappointed on the part of EVERYONE in this thread. It went from a discussion to straight-up rudeness that serves no point other than to be an asshole. Stop.

[LordFowl]

While I will agree that this thread has progressed to a point where most of the posts are no longer relevant or useful, beyond me slinging back an insult or being quizzed on my exact knowledge of science, I still disagree to the point that this would fail to promote roleplay in any way, shape, or form, and I plan to use it in a highly serious fashion. Just as a serious item (Like a gun) can be used in a ridiculous fashion, so too can an ostensible ridiculous item be used in a serious fashion. Failure to use an item to promote roleplay is failure to roleplay; and if I fail to roleplay in one form, then I will probably do it other forms. I assure you that I make a point to not fail in roleplay.

In an effort to dispel any potential and off-putting rudeness that may evolve from this post (Because that will only discourage people and put me at a disadvantage) I will from this point take account of any critiques, but not respond to them unless they beg response. I apologize in advance and in post once again for any rudeness that I have allowed, from action or inaction, to emerge on this post, and find it gravely erroneous of my duties as a resident of this server and a roleplayer to be allowing such things to tarnish my prospects and perhaps even my reputation, as well as that of those around me.

To those who are able to examine this post within an official capacity, I beg of you to disregard any of the superfluous posts that come after it, and only to examine the meat of the topic. If you wish to direct a question at me directly concerning the item, please do it pointedly. I am sorry.

[Tenenza]

So, I'm going to say that, one, the amount of effort here alone shows how serious this Item request is, and that it probably isn't trolling, and that to just throw it off because it isn't 'realistic' is not a good argument. As for, being scientifically accurate and keeping with the Lore, that's not my part to say. No the item isn't serious, it's outlandish in concept and makes his character look insane, but I can live with that the same way I can live with geneticists giving people powers (Which people still bitch about being a game mechanic), and Toxins being able to blow up the station. Shit is weird and can get peoples banned for abuse. Weird can be fun, but only if people take weird seriously enough to RP, without being sticks in the mud. So, you get my Pseudo +1. It's only Pseudo because I haven't actually seen your character so far, so I'll keep any eye out for you.

[Skull132]

Hi, I'm starting to swing around this place again. And I noticed this.

Initial thoughts: Errr, what.

After reading the thread: Errr, no?

After more consideration: Errr, maybe?

Okay, this is an odd one. I kinda agree that we should have whacky things approved, just, simply due to the nature of the game. And, I mean, come on. This is a small little trinket that's not on the level of, "Oh, I have an earring of someone's tail!" yet. So maybe.

Out of curiosity, Lord Fowl, why would you like this item OOCly? As in, why apply for a weird blue squirrel, instead of something else?

[the_furry]

I'm gona throw my two cents in. Im against it. Or at least if you get one I want one too. I already work xenobiology for about an hr to make myself a blue space pet slime that is special to me. If you get one for free that's pretty unfair as I have to work for mine every shift. If he gets something like that I especially think I deserve Somthing like that because it was him seeing my blue space pet slime that likely prompted him to want his own pet. I never requested it because I did think it was too snowflaky to get and I can just make pets other ways. But if this is something we'll actually consider I'll be posting my own request shortly (Likely a cat or fox).

[LordFowl]

The full reasoning of why I want the item OoCly, Skull, is a bit hard to delve into. The fine points of my thought were had when this post was first made, which was some time ago, so they've sort of faded. To speak simply, the idea of having an organic test teleportation is necessary; there is no way a human would test it before a Tajaran, then an Unathi, and then a Monkey.

But why a Squirrel? This is the odd part. Notice it's description. "This is a vibrating blue squirrel. It is a normal sized item. It vibrates, and it is blue. The goal of adventurers everywhere"

Vibrating Blue Squirrel is a lesser known RPG term used to describe a functionless item that the main character in an RPG must acquire to win the game, usually to defeat the gameboss. The Triforce strikes me as an alright example. It serves no purpose other than to give the main character a concrete goal. The ultimate example of a vibrating blue squirrel is when the Questgiver, King Urist McKingly, tells the hero to retrieve the gem of Heroicness from the temple of elemental evil, and bring it back to the King. The hero goes through the dungeon, gets the gem, and comes back. The gem has absolutely no effect on gameplay, but is absolutely integral to the plot. That is a vibrating blue squirrel.

So in essence, the exact reason it's a squirrel is because I wanted to make a reference nobody would get. The exact reason why I wanted an item at all is to help expand the Telescience department, which I think deserves some expansion in roleplay terms.

[the_furry]

So in essence, the exact reason it's a squirrel is because I wanted to make a reference nobody would get. The exact reason why I wanted an item at all is to help expand the Telescience department, which I think deserves some expansion in roleplay terms.

Although I would love to see telescience improved with more features, I don't think this would be an improvement to the lab but more of an unfair improvement to your character. Like I said I improved role play in telescience by creating blue space slime and putting them there. IV also used telescience to embark in epic exploring adventures with different teams. I would love to see telescience expanded upon more. But this blue space squirrel would only be beneficial to you and unfair to anyone else who has dedicated so much time to telescience, Unless every major telescience gets one.

[LordFowl]

I would like to clarify, Furry, that this is not a pet. It is dead. It is a petrified cadaver.

[the_furry]

I would like to clarify, Furry, that this is not a pet. It is dead. It is a petrified cadaver.

Pet or dead all of my objections and concerns are still valid and need to be addressed, if you please

[LordFowl]

Furry, I don't really want to embroil myself in the largely pedantic arguments that have plagued the post prior, so I will simply invite you to look at the rest of the custom items applications. Their entire point is in essence to add uniqueness to a character. My further point is that by adding uniqueness to a character, it adds uniqueness to that character's department. It is irrefutably an "improvement" to my character, as you said. 100%. All the way. Unfair? Not really, since it is server endorsed. I really don't want to be rude, but I don't think you really understand the methodology and purpose of custom items. To cut the potential argument short, if you really feel that this is somehow a degradation to your own roleplay, I'd like to hear your reasoning (Beyond it being "Unfair" which is a cryptic complaint). However, please send it to me via PMs. Otherwise, if your only complaint is that it is "unfair", I remind you that you too can apply for a custom item, although you need to put some thought into it.

[the_furry]

Furry, I don't really want to embroil myself in the largely pedantic arguments that have plagued the post prior, so I will simply invite you to look at the rest of the custom items applications. Their entire point is in essence to add uniqueness to a character. My further point is that by adding uniqueness to a character, it adds uniqueness to that character's department. It is irrefutably an "improvement" to my character, as you said. 100%. All the way. Unfair? Not really, since it is server endorsed. I really don't want to be rude, but I don't think you really understand the methodology and purpose of custom items. To cut the potential argument short, if you really feel that this is somehow a degradation to your own roleplay, I'd like to hear your reasoning (Beyond it being "Unfair" which is a cryptic complaint). However, please send it to me via PMs. Otherwise, if your only complaint is that it is "unfair", I remind you that you too can apply for a custom item, although you need to put some thought into it.

I don't believe I ever said you gaining a dead squirrel would degrade my role playing, if I did I need to revise it. We share a similar view. As I said if my own thing would be approved then I think it's perfectly reasonable. The main thing I was pointing out is that this is less of an improvement to the department and much more of an improvement to your specific character. I take issue with it because you where trying to sell the squirrel as a major improvement to the department of which you now acknowledge that it's less that than it is an improvement to your character to make your character unique (snowflaky in my opinion). Which is why I am against it especially considering if anyone has something like this it should be me considering the time I've spent developing my character and telescience. I never requested it befor because I did not think something like this would even be considered. However if it is then I would like something similar for myself. If that can be done then I think it's fair that anyone who dedicates alot of time to telescience should be allowed to have something like this.

*edit*

Furthermore it seems you underestimate the importance of fairness. I feel we should strive for a level of fairness and equal treatment within the game because we should be considerate to each other as decent human beings. No one likes when they feel like they have been treated unfairly and the whole point of this game is to have fun. When i say fair I mean we should treat people equally in perportion to the level of contribution they have done. If I got some kind of super secret item that only security officers can get that would be unfair to security officers because I have contributed nothing to security to get the item. That is why i am arguing that if we do approve this squirrel for you then I think we should approve similar items for others that contribute to telescience such as me.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Guest