Neckgrab Executions

[Superiorform]

Make it so that when you have someone in a redgrab (not necessarily choking them though), you have head intent on, and a gun in your hand, clicking on the man you have grabbed fires a bullet straight into their neck or brain, and instantly kills them, if you have a bullet loaded of course. I feel like it should be the same for laser weapons, I reckon that at this super close range all of the laser wouldn't be moving about very much, so all of the energy goes into a very short area and melts their skull or neck, instantly killing them.

This would allow for three things:

1) Better hostage situations. If I had someone with a gun to their head, and someone flashbangs me, I can't instantly kill them. I can shoot them point blanc, yes, but they probably won't die. It is really stupid.

2) Cooler executions. I remember I was in the captain's office, my revolution had all but failed, and after a lengthy RP process, the captain ordered the HoS, "Kill him.". The captain left the room. I stared into the commanders eyes. He grabbed me. Forced me to my knees. Before emptying an entire clip into me, and I didn't even immediately die. Pretty shit, really. There are many such situations I have been apart of, as executioner, and the unlucky man, and none of them were as cool as they should have been.

3) Combat. If I am wrestling someone, I get them to the ground, but they are struggling. I might not keep them there. I- I struggle, reach for my gun! Finally! I have it! I raise it to their head, they are fighting, and- bang! I breathe a sigh of relief. If you get someone into a redgrab, and you have a knife, you can instantly kill them, so why not a gun?

[Arrow768]

[...] If you get someone into a redgrab, and you have a knife, you can instantly kill them, so why not a gun?

Shame on you for not being the edgelord paramedic with the bootknive.

Always remember to have a bootknive at hand for those emergency exeuctions

As far as I know it is already possible to execute i.e. headgib someone if you stand next to them and have the correct gun.

But yes, I can how you should be able to execute someone if you have a gun and them in a red grip (if they dont have any head armour)

[Prospekt]

I fully support this. I've always been more supportive of headshots = death but unfortunately it'd be shitty and would lead to people being salty, but this would make a lot more sense. I've also been in hostage situations where security simply doesn't care and will pop in a flash/tear gas because "lol you can't instantly kill them and we can just waste money on cloning anyway".

I feel that there'd be a variety of different reasons to add this but it'd be most effective in hostage situations and would genuinely make officers think twice before storming the room considering you'd be able to execute them with one shot given you had them in the right grip. Also, like you said, if you can pretty much kill someone almost instantly when you slit someones throat, then why not a bullet to the head? Realistically, a bullet to the head would kill someone faster than slitting their throat.

So, I definitely support this feature and hope it gets added. Great idea.

edit: Arrow, only lawmakers and syndie revolvers headgib (syndie revolvers will head gib even from a range if you're aiming for the mouth).

[Scheveningen]

Opposed. This would easily be abused to instantly kill people in combat rather than for hostage-taking. Grabs are strong enough as it stands. There is no need to overload it with more instant-kill mechanics than it already has.

[Superiorform]

Opposed. This would easily be abused to instantly kill people in combat rather than for hostage-taking. Grabs are strong enough as it stands. There is no need to overload it with more instant-kill mechanics than it already has.

 

I do agree that its use in combat could be bad in some people's eyes, however, if you have someone in a neckgrab, you have won anway. And you can instant kill them with a knife. So why not a gun? I don't think it would be too unbalanced, I don't think it would be unfun, and it's realistic. I reckon it would be alright in combat, and fair. I wouldn't mind having it used against me, even.

[Scheveningen]

if you have someone in a neckgrab, you have won anway. And you can instant kill them with a knife. So why not a gun?

 

Not convincing me. Most guns are effective enough in killing people and the point-blank damage modifier is more than efficient at quickly killing people you have grabbed in less shots than if you didn't grab them.

Revolvers and shotguns already OHK if aimed at the head.

[Superiorform]

Most guns are effective enough in killing people and the point-blank damage modifier is more than efficient at quickly killing people you have grabbed in less shots than if you didn't grab them.

 

This misses the point. Anything longer than instantaneous is bad, for the reasons outlined in the OP. Yes, you can kill people easily, but with multiple shots, making most guns worse than knives for hostage taking, and forcing you to execute someone with 6 bullets to the back of the head.

[driecg36]

I like this, but something needs to be done about force-gloves for this to be reasonable.

Force glove grabs are already pretty insane, imagine if you could instakill everyone with forceglove -> red grab -> pull out gun and instakill.

You could slaughter dozens of people in seconds like this.

[Superiorform]

I like this, but something needs to be done about force-gloves for this to be reasonable.

Force glove grabs are already pretty insane, imagine if you could instakill everyone with forceglove -> red grab -> pull out gun and instakill.

You could slaughter dozens of people in seconds like this.

 

If you have a gun you would be able to slaughter people faster by just spraying them down, and you can do that exact same thing with a knife already. But! Hark! I have a solution to your, and [mention]Scheveningen[/mention] 's problem. What if, before you execute someone, you have to have had them in redgrab for 5 seconds already. This would still keep the badass execution and hostage taking potential, while removing the combat potential. Obviously, the 5 second number could be tweaked.

[driecg36]

[mention]Superiorform[/mention]

That's a good compromise, I like it.

[Prospekt]

Or just have it where it has one of those loading bar things, like a 5 second delay before you blow their head off. Kind of like how it is if you stick a gun in your mouth.

[Not Megatron]

I've wanted some manner of execution for a long time, I'd love to see this.

[Superiorform]

Or just have it where it has one of those loading bar things, like a 5 second delay before you blow their head off. Kind of like how it is if you stick a gun in your mouth.

 

This would stop the instant execution required for hostage taking. If someone lobs a flashbang or starts shooting at the hostage taker, he needs to be able to instakill the hostage.

[Pratepresidenten]

I think a huge issue with hostage situations is that someone can just chuck a flashbang into the room because "loldisruption gg" and the situation is defused as the hostage taker is gunned down, while the hostage has little to no injuries. The immediate threat of instant execution would indeed allow for more realistic hostage RP.

I do like the suggestion of having a timer needed for executions to be instant, but I would like it to be atleast 10-15 seconds long. A hostage situation should be a long timed event, not just something hastily done.

I would ALSO like to suggest headgibbing regardless of weaponry, making the hostage uncloneable, as the mindset of ISD is basically, take down the hostage taker, because we can just clone the hostage, while the perp gets to be slapped on a morgue tray.

This would allow for a rushed hostage situation to have ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES.

Just my two cents anyway.

[Scheveningen]

Nothing should ever be instant.

You've failed as a hostage taker if you allow security to just walk into the room.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, Delta. Hostage taking is fundamentally broken because of reasons already outlined. The greatest threats to hostages is usually not the hostage taker but the station crew themselves.

You can already kill instantly by slitting a throat, the same lethal intent should come with a gun.

[Scheveningen]

No, Delta. Hostage taking is fundamentally broken because of reasons already outlined. The greatest threats to hostages is usually not the hostage taker but the station crew themselves.

You can already kill instantly by slitting a throat, the same lethal intent should come with a gun.

 

Which of whom, are breaking the rules on roleplaying a sensible character that respects risk and life if they fuck up a hostage situation on purpose. Why do you people not adminhelp those cases?

Maybe it's because the people who handled the hostage situation managed to get the hostage back on virtue of decent planning where the hostage taker had none. Do not automatically expect to be protected by an admin shield just because you've taken a hostage. That never works out. Stop holing yourself up in areas that you cannot take an immediate escape through, and never take a hostage on a random whim. Hostage make for better human shields than they do make for decent leverage.

Throatslitting requires to be done twice, not once.

[Scheveningen]

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=2193 Check this out, by the way.

If you're expecting to have the entire station handed to you on a platter just because you took 15 seconds to aim at someone, type at them that they should lie down or be shot, you will be sourly surprised and you definitely deserve to have your character killed for not putting enough effort into being a good enough antagonist and taking security seriously.

Security will kick your ass for hostage taking. Hostages do not normally live in hostage situations. Security does what they can to stop hostages from dying, even if it means they have to kill the hostage taker, because they present a clear threat to the hostage and potentially everyone else. Hostage taking is a permabrig sentence. They will take you in forever or kill you so you die forever. It doesn't matter because hostage takers are terrorists. Don't expect to get an adminshield because you're trying to do something interest, earn your to-be-reckoned-with status!

You MUST instill fear as an antagonist. To instill such is by DOING things that cause people to be unnerved and actually taking you as an antagonist seriously. Do not think that waving a gun around will make people fear you. That will make a security officer merely turn around and come back later with a laser gun to dong you in the mouth with after popping out of a closet. An excellent example: https://i.redditmedia.com/KJGpGKE9WIFhJerfMRqmmssJUsIw2Z4Bi8pUFxt0l0I.png?w=890&s=327932356b84f5f54ff8c1ad464b051e

Force gloves are broken. Revolvers are broken. Stealth modules and camo generators are broken. Thermals are broken. Actually leaving the crime scene after you kill someone and their buddy calls for security help and being 2 z levels away is broken. Being overconfident and not thinking before attempting to provide conflict to the station and getting murked because of it is broken. Yet they are actually balanced and fair because all of these things/strategies have their place and reasons for their strength.

If you expect the station to not point and giggle at your antagonist after you attempt something that is point-and-giggleworthy, you're a bad antag, straight up saying that. Good antags drive the round in interesting ways while making it their effort to not get caught (So you can continue playing and so the station has to worry about the antagonist longer, capiche?), and also exerting their power on the station so as to put pressure on every single crewmember that they need to be careful lest they get themselves into a dark maintenance shaft with you and completely destroyed by the tools you had at your own disposal to ruin their day.

Ever play Dark Souls? Their community has a saying.

Get good. Stop asking for instant kill features to make gameplay easier for you. Instant win buttons already exist in the game. You don't need them for guns.

Stop expecting you can hold your ground against a security force that has very robust laser guns, a whole medbay to repair injuries you dole out to security officers, and a larger familiarity with their station than you do. You will die and ultimately 'lose' if you do not utilize speed and the ability to walk away from bad situations that will most certainly kill you.

[Skull132]

Don't we already have the ability to point-blank someone with harm intent on and standing right next to someone? At which point more damage is applied if memory serves.

Why should this be anything more than a custom emote to make it seem more visceral?

[Superiorform]

Don't we already have the ability to point-blank someone with harm intent on and standing right next to someone? At which point more damage is applied if memory serves.

Why should this be anything more than a custom emote to make it seem more visceral?

 

Because a point blank to the head when they are in a neckgrab is not an instant kill. With some weapons, it is not even guaranteed to kill them. You have to shoot them around 5 times with the laser pistol or ballistic pistol if you want them to die there and then, which is unrealistic, and useless for taking hostages. It wastes ammo, allows people to flashbang their way into a hostage situation, and removes the badass effect from executions, be it the head of security or the hostage taker doing the executing.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Guest

[Superiorform]

snip

 

That is all very well and good, but I am not asking for this to make hostage taking ez. I am asking for this because it makes a lot of sense that you do not have to shoot someone in the back of the head 5 times to kill them, and it handily impacts on hostage-taking situations in a positive way. Why should I not be able to insta-kill someone when I have a gun to their head? Do we all have very thick skulls in 2459?

[Skull132]

Because a point blank to the head when they are in a neckgrab is not an instant kill. With some weapons, it is not even guaranteed to kill them. You have to shoot them around 5 times with the laser pistol or ballistic pistol if you want them to die there and then, which is unrealistic, and useless for taking hostages. It wastes ammo, allows people to flashbang their way into a hostage situation, and removes the badass effect from executions.

 

Then it might be worth investigating the standard point blank multipliers instead.

The mechanic already exists. Said mechanic should be tweaked. Adding a clause for, "If grabbed by" seems like a bad approach to this issue, because it's inexplainable snowflake circumstances.

[Superiorform]

Because a point blank to the head when they are in a neckgrab is not an instant kill. With some weapons, it is not even guaranteed to kill them. You have to shoot them around 5 times with the laser pistol or ballistic pistol if you want them to die there and then, which is unrealistic, and useless for taking hostages. It wastes ammo, allows people to flashbang their way into a hostage situation, and removes the badass effect from executions.

 

Then it might be worth investigating the standard point blank multipliers instead.

The mechanic already exists. Said mechanic should be tweaked. Adding a clause for, "If grabbed by" seems like a bad approach to this issue.

 

Excellent! I do not mind how it is done, as long as I do not have to shoot someone in the head 5 times with a pistol while I have them grabbed by the throat to kill them. That being said, my way seemed the easiest. If we just upped the point blank damage, it would get used in combat for insta-kills, resulting in salt.