[Resolved] Alberyk, vampires and MG

[Nebirots]

BYOND Key: Neschief

Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk

Game ID: bQxcC84

Reason for complaint: An unfair warning

Evidence/logs/etc: The security members of that round as witnesses.

Additional remarks: Role - AI / Gamemode: Vampire

The round starts, and after some time i notice one guy (let's call him "Vampire 1") next to a locker in cargo. Somebody was inside the locker and was trying to get out, because the locker was moving and making noises, but the guy next to it not only didn't release whoever was inside the locker, but also sent a PDA message (that i intercepted) to another crewmember (let's call him "Vampire 2") saying that he had something to show him.

I call security, they arrive, the crewmember who was locked (and happened to be the captain) manages to escape, security sees the situation, Vampire 1 knocked down an officer using his eyes (as said by the officer itself) and stuff happens but they end up arresting him. I keep watching what security does and nothing happens, so i attend other crewmembers. When i return to see how things are going in security Vampire 1 had turned green, attacked a detective and an officer and sucked the blood of one of them before getting killed. They read his PDA messages, and some of them point towards Vampire 2 (this was being talked about in the security channel) and I remember the PDA message from before.

While i was telling the Interim Head of Security what i remembered and asking him to make a warrant to arrest Vampire 2, a medic says on the common radio channel that somebody was drinking from the blood bags in medbay. I check what happens there, and i find Vampire 2 inside a small room. I call security, i lock two of the three doors of the room, security arrives, Vampire 2 welds the last door, then unwelds it, and security arrest him. I watch him being interrogated for a while and i end up getting bored so i attend other crewmembers. After a while the CMO asks in the command channel why was Vampire 2 again in Medbay and complains that Vampire 2 is making a Medical Resident do whatever Vampire 2 wants, and whilst watching his every move i ask security why was he free and who allowed him to leave. The Interim HOS says noone allowed it,

I keep watching and appearing as a hologram every time i can, and i see that he enters the bathrooms with the Medical Resident (which is weird in itself) and starts either biting or choking him (when either of those happens the characters get closer, one camera allowed me to see that even if i couldn't see any message). I tell security that they are doing "weird stuff". They arrive, and i don't know what they did there, but they didn't arrest him. Vampire 2 and the Med.Resid. now go to Cargo, and the Med.Resid. starts lifting weights. I appear as a hologram, and Vampire 2 was telling him to keep doing it. I ask why a Med.Resid. was in cargo lifting weights, and i also keep telling security that he must be arrested. Then Vampire 2 tells the Med.Resid. to follow him and they both enter the maintenance area. At that point i am screaming at security, telling them to come already, arrest him, asking why (the f***) is he allowed to be free and stuff. The captain asks why has he to be arrested, and blah blah.

I couldn't see them since they were in maintenance, so i attended other crewmembers. After some time, they returned to cargo. I appeared as a hologram, and i could hear him telling another crewmember something about power. Then he said that total domination wasn't so far away, and asked that crewmember to join him. I tell security to come, i scream at them, i order (not ask, but order) them to come, i lock every door of the room Vampire 2 was and some more just in case and, in that moment, Alberyk asks me something like what proof did i have to persecute Vampire 2 or what reasons did i have to yell and order security to arrest somebody. I can't remember exactly the question.

I responded this: "Simple. A guy was arrested, transformed in a green thing and attacked two security members. That guy also sucked blood at them. We found that guy asked Yahir (Vampire 2) to come to a room where he kept the captain locked in a locker. Yahir was arrested after drinking blood from blood bags in medbay. For some reason that i don't know, now he's free, and i've just listened to him talk about power, saying that total domination isn't far away, and asking another crewmember to join him. Is that enough proof?"

Later i added that i saw Vampire 2 either choke or bite the Med.Resid.

He said that i didn't have enough proof and was making Metagame, that i couldn't see Vampire 2 choke/bite the Med.Resid. because i couldn't see any message (for fuck sake, it's obvious that if the cameras can see it, even if there is no animation or message for that, i am seeing it too as well), and then, at 2017-09-19 19:50:18, i received a warning from him that said "For metagaming a vampire as the AI, with little to no in character reason."

And i thought "you've got to be kidding me". With little to no in character reason? Are you (f***) kidding me? With the tons and tons of proof i had? Well, you can see by yourselves that i had more than enough reason to do what i did.

[Alberyk]

What caused me to investigate this was a ahelp from the captain claiming that the AI was yelling and trying to get security to arrest Yahir because he was planning a takeover somehow, and claiming that he was a suspect because someone did something he asked and followed him into maint.

Take in mind the AI can not really see if someone is just grabbing an individual or bitting them. Because it can not see the visible messages created by those actions.

Now, I think it might be a big jump to reach the conclusion he was planning anything hostile just because people did what he asked, also take in mind there is no other indication that a vampire used dominate besides a whispering emote.

So, I believr you were strentching things too much due to meta knowledge of the antag's skils. And our rules are clear that we should cut some slack when it comes down to antags.

[mention]Arrow768[/mention] and [mention]kyres1[/mention] could also explain their sides here.

[Arrow768]

Cargo Incident, Vamp 1

I was playing the captain this round and going about my departmental inspections, when vamp1 (the qm) captured me in cargo.

He straitjacketed me, succd me and shoved me in a locker.

Afer a while in there I pressed resist assuming that it would only shake the locker once, but once you have done that you shake the locker until you get out.

((I fucked that part up. Sorry to the guy who was playing the QM that round))

I got out of the locker eventually and managed to escape cargo.

It is important to note that if you are succd by a vamp you get a message something along the lines of:

"You remember nothing, just having a pleasant interaction with vamp"

So all I remembered about that interaction was the QM helping me out of the locker.

And that is also what I told over the sec channel when asked what has happened.

Vamp2, Yahir Jones

Security looked into the PDA messages Yahir Jones (unknown at the time that he was a vamp) received from Vamp1 and they found a message from the QM telling him that he should look at something in cargo.

Going down the road, that someone needs to be arrested because they received a PDA message from someone who has been processed by security is sketchy.

That message could also have been something to lure them into the area to have another target to succ on.

Security didnt have any further evidence to proof that Jones was somehow involved in the kidnapping, beyond a message he got from his superior that he should come and look at something.

Bloodbags in the medbay.

He has been arrested by security, interrogated and they dealt with it.

Case closed.

The CMO asked for security because Jones refused to leave the medbay.

So I walked over and ordered him to leave it if he is not injured, which he did without any problems.

Therefore no briggable offence here.

 

I keep watching and appearing as a hologram every time i can, and i see that he enters the bathrooms with the Medical Resident (which is weird in itself) and starts either biting or choking him

As explained, the AI cant see over cams that he is biting or choking him.

All the AI saw was two people entering a bathroom.

Security arrived to the scene and there was no evidence of foul play despite your comment that they "are doing weird shit" in the bathroom.

Again, there is no charge in the corporate regulations that would allow to arrest two people entering a bathroom.

The AI then mentioned that the medical resident is lifting weights because Jones said so.

I dont see a brigable offence here either.

Why does one need to be arrested because he told someone to lift weights ?

Around that time the AI started screaming repeatedly at security that he needs to be arrested.

When asked about what regulations he violated you were unable to answer that question.

Everything so far has been investigated and dealt with by security.

What caused that ahelp

I ahelped because the AI was acting in a very validhunty way and extremely focused on getting a single player.

It even went so far as to order security to arrest someone and repeatedly scream over the security channel.

You were unable to produce any evidence regarding what has happened.

All you had was people entering bathrooms together and that Jones asked someone to lift weights and they did it.

The AI is in no position to order the arrest of anyone.

It is a tool to assist the station with general tasks.

A AI screaming over coms, like you did, to have someone arrested and then unable to present charges why they should be arrested is, in my opinion, breaking AI roleplay.

(I am sure the admins could look up the logs if needed)

Also, going by your own testimony here:

[...]and whilst watching his every move[...]

I keep watching and appearing as a hologram every time i can, and i see that he enters the bathrooms with the Medical Resident

 

You were entirely focusing on a single crew member, listening into conversations they had, ....

This is absolutely valid hunting.

Regarding the evidence you had:

• Jones receiving a PDA message from his superior that he should look at something in a locker - Dealt with by security
  
• Jones allegedly drinking blood from bloodpacks in the medbay - Arrested, Interrogated and dealt with by security.
  
• Jones going into the bathroom with someone
  
• Parts of a conversation where Jones asks someone to lift weights
  
• Parts of a conversation where Jones talks about "power"
  

Its very sketchy at best to order the arrest of someone because they have entered the bathroom with someone, asked someone to lift weights and talked about power.

[kyres1]

Yahir Jones here.

To be completely honest I had no idea any of this stuff with the AI was going on. I'd like to form an opinion on it but I personally witnessed nothing the AI was doing. I wasn't even there when the quartermaster originally drained the captain's blood. In fact, after about thirty minutes in (when the quartermaster died in the brig) I didn't interact with him at all. I will admit that, at times, the AI would sometimes follow me in holographic form and simply stare at me while I was conversing with crew. It was unnerving but after seeing me partake in suspicious conduct it wasn't TOO out of the question.

Though, like I said, my interaction with the AI was basically nothing. I don't know what I could add to this, sorry.

[Nebirots]

Security didnt have any further evidence to proof that Jones was somehow involved in the kidnapping

Bloodbags in the medbay.

He has been arrested by security, interrogated and they dealt with it.

Case closed.

Remember that i intercepted the PDA message even before security checked the PDA, and i intercepted it when the captain (you) was still locked and vampire 1 was still inside the same room. It is obvious that Vampire 1 wanted to show Yahir his capture. I also remember that somebody in the security channel saying that in one part of the message it said that captain blood was especially delicious or something like that. Furthermore, like i said, Vampire 1 sucked the blood of one officer before getting killed (i read that part in the security channel - as the AI you get tons of info from everywhere)

That creates a direct link between Vampire 1 (who was confirmed to be dangerous) and Yahir, and another link between Vampire 1 and anyone else that drinks blood. Yahir was obviously related in some way to Vampire 1 with just that information after he drank blood from the blood bags in medbay. Sketchy, huh? Seems like putting two and two together isn't easy for everyone.

 

As explained, the AI cant see over cams that he is biting or choking him.

All the AI saw was two people entering a bathroom.

 

I could see the interior of the bathroom, not just them entering.

 

The AI then mentioned that the medical resident is lifting weights because Jones said so.

I dont see a brigable offence here either.

Why does one need to be arrested because he told someone to lift weights ?

 

Because a Med.Resid. is following somebody that is pretty much confirmed to be dangerous or at least very suspicious even to the bathrooms (same toilet room even) and the maintenance area of cargo, and also lifting weights in cargo (you can do that in holodeck too) instead of working in medbay? Maybe that could be a good reason. Maybe, just maybe.

 

Around that time the AI started screaming repeatedly at security that he needs to be arrested.

When asked about what regulations he violated you were unable to answer that question.

 

Yes, because no regulation was being violated at the moment, but it was obvious (for me, at least, since i had tons of information) that he was a threat (and it turned out to be true later on). Maybe i should've given more information to security, that is true. But doing that while you are watching the threat itself and screaming at security to jail him already is not easy. Also, giving a full explanation like this one would take more time to make than the round itself would last.

 

the AI was acting in a very validhunty way and extremely focused on getting a single player.

 

Should i've just ignored all the evidence i had, then? Sorry for being a hyper-competent AI, then.

 

You were unable to produce any evidence regarding what has happened.

The AI is in no position to order the arrest of anyone.

 

True.

 

You were entirely focusing on a single crew member, listening into conversations they had, ....

This is absolutely valid hunting.

 

Maybe because i had plenty of reasons to do it?

1. Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station to the best of your ability. It is not something we can easily afford to replace.

2. Serve: Serve the crew of your assigned space station to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.

3. Protect: Protect the crew of your assigned space station to the best of your abilities, with priority as according to their rank and role.

Didn't know being efficient was punishable. Also, i started listening to his conversations with holograms after drinking blood in medbay, once i had more than enough reason to think he was a threat.

[What is valid hunting?]

[Garnascus]

the warning looks valid. I really feel like you watched them like a hawk just because you knew OOC they where vampires. That is not fun for anyone.

[Faris]

Alberyk is in the right here. There's a difference between being a proficient AI that does it's job well to an AI that simply focuses on antags, using information it shouldn't exactly have or be able to see.

Going to deem this as resolved, locking and archiving in 24 hours.

[Faris]

Deeming this as resolved in favor of Alberyk. Locking and archiving.