[2 dismissals; Archive: 30.10.2017].Provide a bodyguard for the merchant

[alexpkeaton]

I am still waiting to roll merchant for the first time. That said, I've noticed something about his position: that he can be a huge balance alterer for conversion antags. He has a station that he can travel to any time that cannot be accessed by any other means (unlike wizards and ninjas who get their safe spaces only until they depart them). He has access to the most dangerous weapons and equipment. And, his ship that I could see does not have any door security (as in, a door that only he can access when docked so that he can lock the ship and go onto the station to negotiate without leaving it open for the tide/security to mess with).

This would need some input from people who have played merchant already - what if the merchant had an armed bodyguard? They would not be permitted to leave the ship under any circumstances. They would be there to protect the merchant while he is on the vessel, and protect the wares when the merchant leaves the vessel to go stationside.

The merchant's station is just ridiculously good for an antag clubhouse, so I think there should be some sort of dissuasion to trying to take advantage of the merchant.

[Conspiir]

+1 for the ability to roleplay with a merchant without having to have money

Sincerely,

A Vaurca/IPC/Dionaea player

[Ornias]

If this becomes a thing, it should be a toggleable option for the merchant, and the merchant should be in charge of the details of the merchant-bodyguard relationship.

Some traders wouldn't make sense to have a bodyguard, and some bodyguards might want to play a character that doesn't match with the merchants backstory.

Alternatively, having auto-spawning ERT-esque guards spawn in the merchant station when it's boarded by non-trader characters would be a pretty interesting solution imo.

Or just making it so it won't depart when there's a non-trader aboard.

[NoahKirchner]

If this becomes a thing, it should be a toggleable option for the merchant, and the merchant should be in charge of the details of the merchant-bodyguard relationship.

Some traders wouldn't make sense to have a bodyguard, and some bodyguards might want to play a character that doesn't match with the merchants backstory.

Alternatively, having auto-spawning ERT-esque guards spawn in the merchant station when it's boarded by non-trader characters would be a pretty interesting solution imo.

Or just making it so it won't depart when there's a non-trader aboard.

 

+1 for the auto-spawning guards actually. I feel like the merchant guard might get bored alone at the base, but having an intruder trigger an "oh HECK no u dont Asset Recovery team tm" might spice things up while not having a role where your only job is to sit in the empty warehouse and finger paint or... eat way too many sugar free gummy bears.

[alexpkeaton]

...a role where your only job is to sit in the empty warehouse and finger paint or... eat way too many sugar free gummy bears.

 

I apologize for being unclear about where the bodyguard could or could not go. I believe they should be able to travel on the ship to the Aurora and remain on board as Wal-Mart Loss Prevention during shopping, but not be able to disembark onto the Aurora (with the exception of recovering a merchant that is dead/ in trouble, or pursuing a shoplifter).

Perhaps instead of one fixed bodyguard job slot, one of the available vendors offers bodyguard protection (this should be a vendor always available to the merchant). The vendor can provide differing levels of equipment with this bodyguard: a plainclothes bodyguard carrying a 45 with non-lethal rounds, a guard with a flak jacket carrying a pistol with lethal rounds, a cyborg with a security loadout and merchant-specific lawset, a experimental energy-armored guard with a pulse carbine and a SWAT bodyguard with a machine gun. The merchant could purchase as many or as few of these bodyguards as they wish, but the price dramatically increases with each one hired. The job openings could go to dchat much like xenobio mobs. The option to play as a bodyguard would be a toggleable option in the prefs. The bodyguard can beam in to the pad once a player selects to play him/her/it.

[ben10083]

Merchant gets a energy pistol at beginning, all I see this is a excuse to be one of the chosen to play as, or in this case, with, the Merchant. I never seen Merchant using his/her/it's gun yet, so that already shows how even antags likely won't try to take over ship.

[Chada1]

I've seen the Merchant get attacked and killed by Antags like two times now, and when converted, which has happened once they provide enough supplies for the Antag to take down the ERT and the ISD at the same time without an issue. What I suggest is the ability to purchase a single bodyguard from contacts akin to how you'd purchase a Mining Drone. But I think the Merchant could really benefit from this, that energy pistol doesn't really cut it when you get three Cultists in your ship or a Traitor.

[Azande]

Lore wise, no need for a guard. You're a merchant trading with NanoTrasen stations which all have operational security staff. Call for aid over comms if there's an issue.

This will lead to the bodyguard fighting Security when carrying out valid operations against a merchant.

[NoahKirchner]

...a role where your only job is to sit in the empty warehouse and finger paint or... eat way too many sugar free gummy bears.

 

I apologize for being unclear about where the bodyguard could or could not go. I believe they should be able to travel on the ship to the Aurora and remain on board as Wal-Mart Loss Prevention during shopping, but not be able to disembark onto the Aurora (with the exception of recovering a merchant that is dead/ in trouble, or pursuing a shoplifter).

Perhaps instead of one fixed bodyguard job slot, one of the available vendors offers bodyguard protection (this should be a vendor always available to the merchant). The vendor can provide differing levels of equipment with this bodyguard: a plainclothes bodyguard carrying a 45 with non-lethal rounds, a guard with a flak jacket carrying a pistol with lethal rounds, a cyborg with a security loadout and merchant-specific lawset, a experimental energy-armored guard with a pulse carbine and a SWAT bodyguard with a machine gun. The merchant could purchase as many or as few of these bodyguards as they wish, but the price dramatically increases with each one hired. The job openings could go to dchat much like xenobio mobs. The option to play as a bodyguard would be a toggleable option in the prefs. The bodyguard can beam in to the pad once a player selects to play him/her/it.

Oh then yeah that sounds great!

[Chada1]

Lore wise, no need for a guard. You're a merchant trading with NanoTrasen stations which all have operational security staff. Call for aid over comms if there's an issue.

This will lead to the bodyguard fighting Security when carrying out valid operations against a merchant.

 

Did you miss the directive? The ship isn't NanoTrasen jurisdiction. If you want the bodyguard to not cause problems, then follow the law of Biesel and the contract that the Merchant had to sign. You don't get to walk over the Merchant in your 'Valid operations', and Security often makes no attempt to aid the Merchant when they need aid, i've only seen them be aggressive towards the Merchant.

It's not Crew, it shouldn't depend on Station Security in an area they have no jurisdiction over. And, if it should, maybe that Directive needs to be changed some...

[Azande]

Lore wise, no need for a guard. You're a merchant trading with NanoTrasen stations which all have operational security staff. Call for aid over comms if there's an issue.

This will lead to the bodyguard fighting Security when carrying out valid operations against a merchant.

 

Did you miss the directive? The ship isn't NanoTrasen jurisdiction. If you want the bodyguard to not cause problems, then follow the law of Biesel and the contract that the Merchant had to sign. You don't get to walk over the Merchant in your 'Valid operations', and Security often makes no attempt to aid the Merchant when they need aid, i've only seen them be aggressive towards the Merchant.

It's not Crew, it shouldn't depend on Station Security in an area they have no jurisdiction over. And, if it should, maybe that Directive needs to be changed some...

 

You seem to have, along with lots of other people, misread the directive (it is poorly worded, admittedly)

The Directive allows Internal Security to absolutely interfere with the Merchant. One example that occurred with me was a Merchant literally taking in an escaped prisoner guilty of MURDER. You are not immune to prosecution if you are breaking the law, harboring fugitives or attacking crew outside of self defense will LAWFULLY get you batonned, dragged to the brig, and detained. After which, the Captain IS allowed to make the Merchant leave (per CCIA's in game response to le prisoner-asylum Merchant)

[Chada1]

Lore wise, no need for a guard. You're a merchant trading with NanoTrasen stations which all have operational security staff. Call for aid over comms if there's an issue.

This will lead to the bodyguard fighting Security when carrying out valid operations against a merchant.

 

Did you miss the directive? The ship isn't NanoTrasen jurisdiction. If you want the bodyguard to not cause problems, then follow the law of Biesel and the contract that the Merchant had to sign. You don't get to walk over the Merchant in your 'Valid operations', and Security often makes no attempt to aid the Merchant when they need aid, i've only seen them be aggressive towards the Merchant.

It's not Crew, it shouldn't depend on Station Security in an area they have no jurisdiction over. And, if it should, maybe that Directive needs to be changed some...

 

You seem to have, along with lots of other people, misread the directive (it is poorly worded, admittedly)

The Directive allows Internal Security to absolutely interfere with the Merchant. One example that occurred with me was a Merchant literally taking in an escaped prisoner guilty of MURDER. You are not immune to prosecution if you are breaking the law, harboring fugitives or attacking crew outside of self defense will LAWFULLY get you batonned, dragged to the brig, and detained. After which, the Captain IS allowed to make the Merchant leave (per CCIA's in game response to le prisoner-asylum Merchant)

No, unfortunately, I haven't. And the issue is you're arguing for Security to butt into *Everything*, that's not 'Valid Operations', the Merchant shouldn't be depending on Security to defend its ship, it literally says this in the Directive.

The Internal Security Department is neither responsible for nor authorized to confiscate wares aboard a merchant's vessel, and may not charge or detain a merchant for the possession of wares that remain aboard that vessel. The Internal Security Department may not enforce regulations aboard a docked merchant vessel, except for issues that arise between NanoTrasen employees.

Security has no obligation or jurisdiction over the Merchants ship absent of NanoTrasen employees. The Merchant shouldn't depend on NanoTrasen Security to guard its ship, they are given a self-defense weapon and authorisation to use it for a reason... It's what the Directive says, word by word, it directly says, and I quote. "The ISD may not enforce regulations aboard a docked merchant vessel, except for issues that arise between NanoTrasen employees.", and that's not just talking about contraband, because it covered contraband earlier in the Directive. It's all there.

Now, when harboring a murderer comes to mind, then you have a problem, but you see the problem with that is the Merchant is breaking Biesel Law and harboring a criminal, which would get anyone batoned. That's not a valid example for how the 'Directive' works, because even if the Directive said you were not meant to do anything against the Merchant no matter what, you still would have, and reasonably so.

The reality is the only time you are supposed to 'interfere' with the Merchant on their ship is on issues arising between NanoTrasen employees, and this is why they could use with having a bodyguard instead of just a defense weapon, they shouldn't depend on Station Security, because Security literally has no jurisdiction on that ship. As it stands, they are a prime target for Antagonists, and when they are targetted, they basically make the Antag impossible to stop. You're arguing against them having defense against Antagonists on the basis of being afraid they'll be Antagonists... They would literally be dead and the Antagonist would have flown off in the ship before Sec even got there.

[Scheveningen]

Just note that you're allowed to post security officers outside of the merchant ship in the event someone's buying guns such as derringers for themselves. They're allowed to confiscate stuff like that if said crewmember does not initially sign a weapons permit off from the HoS in doing so, for obvious reasons.

[Chada1]

Just note that you're allowed to post security officers outside of the merchant ship in the event someone's buying guns such as derringers for themselves. They're allowed to confiscate stuff like that if said crewmember does not initially sign a weapons permit off from the HoS in doing so, for obvious reasons.

 

I'm aware, thank you. I made sure to cover that base in my analysis of the directive when I said. "On their ship.", I understand that this all only applies on their ship. If Security did that more often, the concept of having a bodyguard wouldn't really be needed. But the fact that it's not something the Merchant can count on, kinda breaks that.

[Azande]

You literally reiterated my point. Security is allowed to do shit with the Merchant for 'valid operations', which are literally operations in which such actions are valid and warranted, why are you arguing with something that is inarguable? A bodyguard isn't needed. Buy a bigger gun to defend your ship or flee if mercs come.

[ben10083]

Yeah bodyguard isn't needed if the merchant felt they needed one they wouldn't even BE there!

[alexpkeaton]

You literally reiterated my point. Security is allowed to do shit with the Merchant for 'valid operations', which are literally operations in which such actions are valid and warranted, why are you arguing with something that is inarguable? A bodyguard isn't needed. Buy a bigger gun to defend your ship or flee if mercs come.

 

It doesn't matter what size gun you have. A stun paper by a cultist is an insta-win, they would have no time to react to draw their weapon. That's why I suggest a second set of eyes. Just having a second person around would provide a ton of deterrence. Plus, it's an opportunity for someone else to participate in a special role slot.

The base secluded from everything and its potential for weapons and gear is just too unbalancing not to address somehow, in my opinion.

[Chada1]

You literally reiterated my point. Security is allowed to do shit with the Merchant for 'valid operations', which are literally operations in which such actions are valid and warranted, why are you arguing with something that is inarguable? A bodyguard isn't needed. Buy a bigger gun to defend your ship or flee if mercs come.

 

No, I didn't reiterate your point, since your point is that Security gets to walk all over the Merchant in their 'Valid Operations', when they factually do not. Security is not allowed to dictate what the Merchant can or cannot do on their own ship, the clauses in the Directive are only for when the Merchant steps on the Aurora. In that same vein it's absurd to expect the Merchant to depend on STATION SECURITY to enforce regulations on their own ship when it says Security can't do that. That is what you aren't getting, you don't get to decide what is and isn't inarguable, and this is very arguable, since it's literally how the Directive is intended.

You backpedaled from 'Call for Security' to 'Get a bigger gun', but neither of these would work against most Antag types.

As Alexpkeaton pointed out, the Merchant is a huuuge target, and when it goes down or gets converted, there's not much you can do to stop an Antagonist.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Guest

[ben10083]

If Merchant is so worried about getting raided by the antags then he can get a bigger gun, they can even get a Gatling lasers so getting a weapon that is better than the pistol you get while also being able to hold of antags is easy.

[Azande]

In the end, Security WILL do whatever they want if the Merchant is being dumb. If a merchant shoots at crew from on his ship, they are going to board it and shoot him the fuck up, if he is planning to bomb the entire station then security is GOING to raid him.

Internal Security Officers are not required to always adhere to a jurisdiction like a police officer would, their first and final goal is the protection of corporate assets: Station, crew, goals.

By your logic, a Mercernary ship cannot ever be boarded by Security, despite taking hostile action against the crew. You're flat out wrong.

[Chada1]

In the end, Security WILL do whatever they want if the Merchant is being dumb. If a merchant shoots at crew from on his ship, they are going to board it and shoot him the fuck up, if he is planning to bomb the entire station then security is GOING to raid him.

Internal Security Officers are not required to always adhere to a jurisdiction like a police officer would, their first and final goal is the protection of corporate assets: Station, crew, goals.

By your logic, a Mercernary ship cannot ever be boarded by Security, despite taking hostile action against the crew. You're flat out wrong.

And all of this is pointless because it goes on a round-by-round basis and assumes the Merchant is breaking Biesel Law and being an Antagonist. Your argument is assuming the Merchant is an Antagonist. In normal operation, Security is not allowed to enforce regulations on the Merchant ship. If the Merchant is having problems, it is not meant to call for Station Security, that is why you are wrong. The Mercenary ship is a foreign threat that isn't contracted by NanoTrasen, it doesn't fucking count.

It's all in the Directive...

[DatBerry]

I consider myself a veteran merchant player by now.

I think the only suggestion here I support would be adminbus'd ERT-like security gaurds if someone that isn't the merchant boards the warehouse.

Attacking the merchant is usually a mistake, they are a non-NT person with lots of connections, he can supply you with anything cargo wouldn't normally do, as long as you have credits, merchants are willing to do a lot of things.

[Azande]

Internal Security are authorized peace officers in Biesel. The Merchant is totally allowed to request their aid if it's needed and Security is expected to provide reasonable aid.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The merchant isn't someone I see that should run around with a bunch of armed men following it around. A guard following them would equally be redundant. If I was a cultist I'd just have to bring an extra person and we'd use TWO insta-stun runes. And then you have TWO off-station characters sided with the cult. That's double the carrying capacity in their backpacks and twice the speed for loading up crates full of weapons. Then there's the problem that by adding an armed escort you are making things more tense right off the bat between the merchant and ISD.

The merchant has a gun and the ability to run away as is.

Security has the power to enter the ship if they really have to. The directive SAYS they can if there is an issue with NT employees. NT employees trying to get the merchant into blood magic falls under that i think.

If the merchant is bringing heavy weapons onto the station you aren't going to have ISD sit on their hands, that is a guarantee.

[NoahKirchner]

The merchant isn't someone I see that should run around with a bunch of armed men following it around. A guard following them would equally be redundant. If I was a cultist I'd just have to bring an extra person and we'd use TWO insta-stun runes. And then you have TWO off-station characters sided with the cult. That's double the carrying capacity in their backpacks and twice the speed for loading up crates full of weapons. Then there's the problem that by adding an armed escort you are making things more tense right off the bat between the merchant and ISD.

The merchant has a gun and the ability to run away as is.

Security has the power to enter the ship if they really have to. The directive SAYS they can if there is an issue with NT employees. NT employees trying to get the merchant into blood magic falls under that i think.

If the merchant is bringing heavy weapons onto the station you aren't going to have ISD sit on their hands, that is a guarantee.

A solution for this might be to have the security for the merchant assigned by Nanotrasen offstation. That way they'd be in kahoots with station security but would be assigned to follow the Merchant and would be responsible for them.