Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 The Aurora is not a super secret space station. It's the flagship of the entire nanotrasen corporation in Tau Ceti. Everyone wants to be seen on it. Regardless, it'd offer a lot more flexibility in roleplay with things if it wasn't. Half the time I'm left OOCly wondering why the same group of visitors are showing up and doing nothing but flirting in the bar for hours, every single day. Turning the station into a civilian hub of traffic validates this behavior.
Guest Menown Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Turning the station into a civilian hub of traffic validates this behavior. Yeah, because that's the only way it'll get handled. Nobody ever does anything about it, regardless of how many times it's mentioned to any of the staff.
Scheveningen Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Couldn't we keep the research facilities and just furnish a gigantic Expo for the second facility floor? I've no idea whether the IT department's gonna be a thing in the nearest future or not.
Guest Menown Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Couldn't we keep the research facilities and just furnish a gigantic Expo for the second facility floor? I've no idea whether the IT department's gonna be a thing in the nearest future or not. That's somewhat my solution. Hub station with research facilities.
Jakers457 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 Research could still be a thing. It just, in my opinion, allows for more freedom and some exploration into the mercantile side of things. The Corporate theme allows for a situation where some stuff gets stomped on 'because it doesn't make sense' while at the same time, plenty of people treat the station like a playground. At least having it has a hub where people stop off at to recharge allows for a broader range of possibilities while allowing those who are so inclined, to chill out at the bar or other service establishments. We can have the station owned by either Biesel, a congregation of businesses or still be heavily sponsored/owned by everyone's lukewarm NT company.
MO_oNyMan Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Did someone really say phoron-research is non-existent on Aurora? Phoron's a part of every major medicinal recipe and for the deadly chemical weapons, too, in addition to how much phoron is related in R&D schematics, the supermatter engine and many other minor applications. Research - the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions. Use of phoron in a common recipe for a medication that is being used as a first resort for healing the most common type of damage on the station as well as using it as an element in an engine that is considered stable enough to be used as a primary and frequently the only source of power for the entire station in not researching as you don't find out anything new about it. The only thing that can even remotely be called "phoron research" is the use of phoron in RnD prototypes (as in researching the phoron traits that allow for creation of more advanced experimental technologies), but prototypes are rarely used and even more rarely genuinely researched.
Sebbe Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Didn't think much about it before right now but making it a trading hub would allow people, let's say in robotics, to choose what company they "represent" let's say hephestus (on a tablet will check name later) and roleplay off the lore. It also opens up a lot of opritunity to flesh out the lore for the various companies. And that's just robotics, I can imagine plenty of supply companies fighting to be on the frontier where they can sell in bulk with a high price because of the low number of rivaling companies present, security could get a new role with "contractors" that are temporary security personnel hired short term until a position opens up for them. There is a lot of ground here to build on, only minor things need to be changed with the current lore as has been mentioned earlier to make all this possible. The only real downside I can think of is that mining will have less area to work with if we need to expand the floors a bit.
Jakers457 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Posted March 21, 2018 To be honest, I feel there's a lot of areas Mining never touches or makes a dent so I'd say it wouldn't affect their work too much. Plus, if they go through with another suggestion in regards to mining they'll be less likely to get the more powerful equipment so early into the round.
Arrow768 Posted March 22, 2018 Posted March 22, 2018 I really like the idea of a trading hub. However that would require major remaps as the current layout isn't that suitable for a trading hub.
driecg36 Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 [mention]Senpai Jackboot[/mention] I actually think that the fact that aurora station is *the* flagship station of NT is really bad for RP and character diversity/credibility. If aurora station is the flagship research station, then why would so many people who are obviously either utterly incompetent, deranged, or otherwise disabled be hired? Why would any seedy or criminal elements be allowed within miles of it? Why doesn't it have a more effective security force like Odin? Why is research almost always empty? The concerns go on and on. Personally, I think having aurora as a trading hub/mining asteroid (perhaps a major one but certainly not *the* trading hub) would really help things not only make a lot more sense Icly. It would make the inevitable incompetence of the crew much less jarring, allow for more varied characters that are not always the cream of the crop, and it would generally allow for a lot more room in terms of events and future development options that don't have to work within the narrow constraints that a research station that should SUPPOSEDLY be maximum security currently has. Research doesn't have to be eliminated, but in all honesty it it's a relatively minor department compared to the others already. Just my two cents.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 I actually think that the fact that aurora station is *the* flagship station of NT is really bad for RP and character diversity/credibility. We get to decide what that means. If NT wants their flagship research station to be accessible to the public to come gawk at, then we can do that. We are already doing that. It is important and noteworthy enough that it validates VIP's coming to visit. Making it a boring trading hub would make it really dumb to have VIP's coming to visit. If aurora station is the flagship research station, then why would so many people who are obviously either utterly incompetent, deranged, or otherwise disabled be hired? Being an unbelievable character is against the rules. They are breaking the rules by not playing a character to the proper standards. Even handled IC'ly, corporations sometimes make bad decisions when hiring. It is usually quickly resolved by the person being fired. Being a trading hub would do 0% of anything towards fixing this behavior. It would actually make it less of a rules violation, since trading hubs have lower standards than research stations? Why would any seedy or criminal elements be allowed within miles of it? They're not. That's why they sneak in. If you're asking about employees, then they're not. People with questionable backstories are kept out of secure areas by not having the access, because they are not hired for sensitive jobs. If someone is a wanted felon for 2nd degree murder and is a scientist, then ahelp it. Why doesn't it have a more effective security force like Odin? Game balance. And the Odin has thousands of people on it, and hundreds of people coming and going on an hourly basis. And is the command center for the entire star system. The Aurora has 60 people tops. What do you want, a fully armed ERT squad on the station at all times? We already have an armory and a fully armed ERT squad on call to arrive within minutes. Why is research almost always empty? The concerns go on and on I've seen it full. There's always roboticists and xenobotanists. Being a regular scientist is boring. We are working on fixing that with things such as persistent research and researchbuddy. Personally, I think having aurora as a trading hub/mining asteroid (perhaps a major one but certainly not *the* trading hub) would really help things not only make a lot more sense Icly. It would make the inevitable incompetence of the crew much less jarring, allow for more varied characters that are not always the cream of the crop Why would we want to validate poor conduct?.... No thank you.
driecg36 Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 It is important and noteworthy enough that it validates VIP's coming to visit. Making it a boring trading hub would make it really dumb to have VIP's coming to visit. Having it be a major trading hub could easily allow VIP's to visit. It would still be very important to NT operations without being their crown jewel. Being an unbelievable character is against the rules. They are breaking the rules by not playing a character to the proper standards. Even handled IC'ly, corporations sometimes make bad decisions when hiring. It is usually quickly resolved by the person being fired. Being a trading hub would do 0% of anything towards fixing this behavior. It would actually make it less of a rules violation, since trading hubs have lower standards than research stations? You see, I'm not talking only about extreme, rule breaking incompetence (which is going to happen all the time anyway, even if it's against the rules and gets ahelped every time it happens). I was more so thinking the more run of the mill incompetence, which is neither against the rules nor particularly unbelievable, but is kind of jarring when it happens regularly on the crown jewel of the biggest corporation in the galaxy. In a more average trading hub, it would just make more sense that not everyone isn't the best in their field. They're not. That's why they sneak in. Again, I find it hard to believe that anyone would be allowed on the station without EXTREME background checks, research, and investigation into their past making it near impossible to enter the station with anything worse than a spotless record (I'm talking about non-antags here). Also, there is a middle ground between murderer and straight edge, but you wouldn't logically see that middle ground on supposedly the most important research station in the galaxy. Game balance. Fair argument. I never wanted to boost security to ERT tiers, just mention the dissonance that comes with not having the best possible team for your most important station, which seems logical even if it's excessive. Being a regular scientist is boring This is a whole different issue, yes. Sure, sometimes research isn't empty, but by making the station a trading hub, you really don't have to sacrifice anything from research at all and you can still add a lot of different stuff on top of that. Why would we want to validate poor conduct?.... No thank you. I think you misunderstood me, here. When I said not cream of the crop, I didn't mean bad, uninteresting characters. We have those in spades already. I meant more varied characters, that aren't always the top of their field who've gone to the best academy in the galaxy. Sure, we have those already, but they've always felt out of place to me. We really can't have believable delinquent characters, and a lot of otherwise intersting chars have to do mental gymnastics to justify why they would be on aurora station in the first place (a noble dominian who hates NT would be more likely to end up at a trading hub than their crown jewel, for one example). I suppose that's another issue entirely, and an inevitable one at that considering that the game is locked to this one location. Still, I hold on to my argument. A trading hub has a lot more room for varied characters, roles, gimmicks, and events than the most important research station in the galaxy does.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 Its up to us to decide who NT lets into their flagship station. Delinquent cargo techs are cheap to employ. An nt nobleman who hates nt is still working for NTs bottom line. A lOooooooOoOOoOoot of people openly hate their jobs and employers. Even me. I trash my employers whenever i can. Yet i still work and behave professionally because i need money.
driecg36 Posted April 7, 2018 Posted April 7, 2018 Its up to us to decide who NT lets into their flagship station. Delinquent cargo techs are cheap to employ. An nt nobleman who hates nt is still working for NTs bottom line. A lOooooooOoOOoOoot of people openly hate their jobs and employers. Even me. I trash my employers whenever i can. Yet i still work and behave professionally because i need money. I mean, to offer an IRL example, I very much doubt Disney or Amazon have ex-cons working at their HQ, even in extremely menial jobs. It would also be logical, considering Aurora is the "face" of NT, that only very loyal or positive employees would get assigned there to display a more positive image, rather than those that are in open dislike of it.
Saudus Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Making it less of a "research" station seems fair, as it isn't really that at the moment. At the moment I have just assumed that it isn't a station for living on, just for working on. Making it an actual HUB feels like that means people are able and do live on it. That means the station has to be very different in form and function. Making it more of a general purpose NT work station which is continually staffed, which is very new and modern, one of the main stations in the area and accessible to relatively regular people to visit and do business on seems like a good summary/compromise of what people here are saying.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Its up to us to decide who NT lets into their flagship station. Delinquent cargo techs are cheap to employ. An nt nobleman who hates nt is still working for NTs bottom line. A lOooooooOoOOoOoot of people openly hate their jobs and employers. Even me. I trash my employers whenever i can. Yet i still work and behave professionally because i need money. I mean, to offer an IRL example, I very much doubt Disney or Amazon have ex-cons working at their HQ, even in extremely menial jobs. It would also be logical, considering Aurora is the "face" of NT, that only very loyal or positive employees would get assigned there to display a more positive image, rather than those that are in open dislike of it. Felons cannot work on the Aurora either without extrodinary circumstances, such as being an asylum seeker from a faction where jaywalking is a felony. Do you want felon characters?
driecg36 Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Felons cannot work on the Aurora either without extrodinary circumstances. Do you want felon characters? Notice how I said ex-con, not felon. And honestly, I think including crime that isn't traitor/antag related would be interesting. Ofc, it would be extremely difficult to implement correctly and would require some colossal reworks to how the game works, so those are far flung theories and not relevant to the point at hand. But in short, not all ex-cons are felons but they sure wouldn't be hired on the crown jewel of NT at all.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 The employment standards of NanoTrasen are whatever we want them to be.
Scheveningen Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Felons cannot work on the Aurora either without extrodinary circumstances. Do you want felon characters? Notice how I said ex-con, not felon. And honestly, I think including crime that isn't traitor/antag related would be interesting. Ofc, it would be extremely difficult to implement correctly and would require some colossal reworks to how the game works, so those are far flung theories and not relevant to the point at hand. But in short, not all ex-cons are felons but they sure wouldn't be hired on the crown jewel of NT at all. Legally speaking you are not an ex-convict if you went to prison up to two years for a misdemeanor offense such as not paying your taxes. Future hiring opportunities may or may not discriminate based on your offense, particularly in a DUI, theft, or any other associated case that deals with dishonest, more severe misdemeanors. If you are a felon, you are very unlikely to be getting a job with a mega-corporation with way better hiring standards than people insist are because they think pubbies that click randomly from the BYOND hub are representative of lore in the slightest. You are a convicted felon if you serve out a lengthy jail sentence for a felony. Ergo, upon serving that sentence, you become an ex-con. Please don't test the boundaries on this. Believability in a character concept needs to come first before "interesting character background" because otherwise we allow a lot of people to be overwhelmingly special working with the company with a lengthy list of criminal records. And please don't pretend like you know better regarding legal terminology.
Jakers457 Posted April 8, 2018 Author Posted April 8, 2018 What are the actual pros to remaining a top of the line Research station? Out of curiosity.
driecg36 Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 And please don't pretend like you know better regarding legal terminology. I was mistaken then, as I merely meant a criminal that was not a felon. There is absolutely no need for the hostility. I did also say that that was beside the point and would require a large quantity of reworks if it was even desirable, so I suggest we just drop that point, as it's not relevant to the suggestion at hand.
Scheveningen Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 And please don't pretend like you know better regarding legal terminology. I was mistaken then, as I merely meant a criminal that was not a felon. There is absolutely no need for the hostility. Calling you on spreading false information because you were seeking to prove your point is hardly egregious hostility, unless it really offended you that much. I did also say that that was beside the point and would require a large quantity of reworks if it was even desirable, so I suggest we just drop that point, as it's not relevant to the suggestion at hand. Why'd you even bring it up, then? What are the actual pros to remaining a top of the line Research station? Out of curiosity. Out of curiosity, what do you seek to accomplish with silly questions that have already been answered? https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10624#p94580 https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10624&start=30#p96155 I mean, really, we've already had insightful comments such as "scientists don't really research phoron at all" coming from someone who doesn't play science. At this point there really are no stupid questions. If your points against the status quo are that you personally don't like the status quo and want a change of flavor; Then that is just Tough, because until the development team decides upon a proper map rotation in the near future, it is very unlikely the current formula will change much. No point fixing something that isn't broken.
driecg36 Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 Calling you on spreading false information because you were seeking to prove your point is hardly egregious hostility, unless it really offended you that much. It was an honest mistake, not "spreading false information." It was rather obvious that I meant misdemeanor/disorderly person's offenses instead of felonies, but if that wasn't the case, then I apologize. A simple "you used the wrong term" would've sufficed, but it makes no difference. You are known for being confrontational, after all; I really should think nothing of it. Why'd you even bring it up, then? Jackboot mentioned not wanting felons on station, and I merely mentioned that I thought non-antag criminality could be interesting as a digression (which I openly admitted in the statement, might I add). I've already stated the majority of my points as to why a trading hub, or hell, just anything that isn't literally one of the most important stations in the galaxy, could help some of the dissonance in between the lore and the game, as well as open up new possibilities in the future.
MO_oNyMan Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 The current setting needs to be changed. I personally don't care in which direction will the changes be taking us but the fact that the changes are needed is undeniable. We're stuck as a tourist attraction with any more or less radical suggestion of improving departments other than science or mining shot down by the "why do we need it on a small research station" arguement. At the same time the arguement used to block those suggestions is invalid. Yes, Aurora is technically a phoron research and mining facility but virtually no research of phoron happens aboard the station (if you think it does - cite me examples or touch this topic at all) with research and mining being the most boring and therefore understaffed departments on station. Yes, we can decide ourselves what "research station" entitles but we also have to follow general logic of the universe. The station can't be a tourist attraction and at the same time a serious secured research facility. Choose one. Current status of the station is pretty underwhelming. So we either need to move towards reinforcing the research and mining status (implementing tonns better features for such departments, making them more interesting, cutting other departments and making all deps revolve around science and mining, removing visitors, enforcing stricter policies etc.) or we move towards a public object, aka the trading HuB (allowing more diversity in character, decentralising or moving entirely away from NT, introducing new factions, building all deparments and leaving science as is or repurposing it). Regarding suspension of disbelief towards people that do poorly at their jobs, yes we can say that "it's not canon". But it's supposed to be a flagship of NT or something. Hiring the best of the best. And you can't expect randos on the internet to consistently do a good job. So why should we bend our knees backwards establishing a setting that is impossible to maintain in a believable fashion due to the playerbase? Wouldn't it be easier to loosen up on requirements for the crew to allow them to occasionally mess up instead of dismissing all mistakes as "non-canon"? Spoiler: yes it would. "But why would VIP visit some trading hub"? They wouldn't and thanks god they wouldn't. Polls show that people want maximum involvement of the crew in their events. VIP visit events are revolving around a single person by definition so the less VIP visit the station the better. We really don't need mr. President to walk by our characters in the hallway to saturate our storytelling with #meaning. If you still want to push some big figure to visit the station, scale its importance. Have the trading hub's shareholder and local hospital benefactor visit. "but why would we validate poor conduct?" Because it happens. Punishing people for making honest mistakes is stupid. And you can't expect human beings to be perfect. Flaws and weaknesses are what makes characters alive and interesting. Flaws generate conflict and conflict is the driving force behind any story. Allow regular crew to have stories even if they are minor compared to what antags do. The fact that you're supposed to go through a thorough background checks and scans and evaluation and whatnot doesn't allow for too much maneuver for character flaws and also makes sudden antag wave or random drunko look extremely out of place. "But i've seen scientists research phoron once/i've seen science fully staffed once/new features for science are being worked on" Good. The problem remains. Science is boring. Mining is boring. Aurora doesn't research phoron (which is supposed to be its primary goal). If you want to improve science with new features - more power to you. A trading hub can still have the renewed science department while providing more opportunities for the growth of other departments and character options. "do you want felons to infest the station?" I want diverse and interesting characters to infest the station. Yes, felons. Yes, convicts. Conmen, traders, travellers, tourists, researchers, mercenaries, colonists, locals, priests, aristocrats, lawyers, soldiers, NT supporters, NT opposition, Einstine eng representatives, zheng-hu representatives. The more the merrier. The amount of screening you're supposedly subjected to to come aboard the best NT station in the sector severely limits the diversity of characters and storytelling The benefits of moving to a more open setting drastically outnumbers sticking to the current one. There's no arguing that. If we want to improve we need to change. Clinging to the outdated model will get us nowhere. Yes, changes can require some effort and yes they can be scary and i understand the anxiety caused by the idea of new concept adoption. But from an objective standpoint the current model is just hands down weaker than the one that is being suggested here.
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