Scheveningen

sweet!

Can we expect a framework soon to reflect what we should be looking at?

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=NanoTrasen_Corporate_Finances#Tier_15 So this wasn't the former system, in spite of the fact it is on the wiki and I recall SierraKomodo had a large feedback thread over it? Seeing as how there hasn't been word about the upcoming economy update I would assume this information is relevant.

Level 1-2 are things associated to the paygrades of the Head of Security role. Level 1 is entry-level and a Level 2 Head of Security is a veteran head of staff with many years in the security department with the corporation. Level 2 is paid more, simply. There's no real significance beyond background fluff as to how well-to-do your character is and what their standing is with the company. Said fluff isn't completely unimportant, though.

The problem is that the idea of "killing someone without roleplay or interaction leading up to it" appears to be a different meaning depending on who you're talking to. And I think policy has changed from the interpretation of it being, "If you don't give this person anywhere between a sentence and an essay before killing them it's gank and wrong" to, "it needs to be a fathomable reason to want to kill someone even as an antag or it's gank." I imagine the gank rule is intended to prevent random murder from happening, and instead promoting premeditated murders instead to make the round more interesting.

Yeaaaah, but we've kinda changed since Doomberg. While the message remains that you shouldn't burst into hostage situations without consideration for your own safety and the hostage's safety, Doomberg as an admin had a very immovable opinion on what constituted as gank.

From my POV, gank is a kill or an attempt at killing that is done under the pretense of random murder without any other justifiable motivation. Blowing up the borgs roundstart is gank. Blowing up the borgs when you're about to execute your plan and don't want to deal with validsalad robots is not gank. Murdering someone with a sleepy pen without having interacted with them prior or for no real perceivable reason besides the fact that you could, is gank. Murdering someone with a sleepy pen as an escalated measure as part of your multi-point plan to pursue your in-character objectives is not gank. Randomly headpopping a random person in a hallway with an AMR is gank. AMR headpopping a security officer with a gun that you perceive as a threat is not gank. Hopefully this makes sense.

Yeah, that's a situation where the vamp deserves it. Vampires aren't supposed to get caught sucking blood. They're stealthy antags.

So would these? What's wrong with that?

Welp, that should've been the subject of your thread then. RIP.

You cannot really expect someone playing security to stop and think during a situation that requires more immediate action and resolution of a tense situation. It's not fair to warn someone for a scenario where half of the conditions weren't going to be able to be controlled by them. When an antagonist puts themselves in a situation where they're declared "neutralize-on-sight", and it isn't explicit how the neutralizing is going to be done, the security team is going to assume they have to improvise by any means necessary. If I had to shut down an antagonist that was presenting themselves as a serious threat and the only proper resolution that would benefit everyone's safety would be killing them, then I would regrettably take that resolution. I do not care what any admin thinks, as security, either you act or people die. I would be livid if I was taken aside for a 30 minute discussion on ethics that boiled down to "you could've done better." No shit. The major takeaway from every round as security players is that we learn to do something that we did perhaps suboptimally a little better, but we do not need staff to threaten with bans and warnings to tell us that. Learn to leave well enough alone. There are no victims here, there's only a salty antagonist who's mad that he couldn't 1v3 with his suit of armor despite the fact he was enough of an idiot to run out of ammunition and still stick around. We cannot be blamed for every single occurrence in a round. You need to remove this warning if you are also not going to blame the round antagonist for lacking in fear RP and making unrealistic/impractical decision-making in IC. There is zero consistency or reason for this warning to even exist aside from fun-policing. "In a fight with a hardsuited merc as a [...] security officer, beat them down into crit and continued for an excessive amount of time, between 1 and 2 minutes." This phrasing pretty much flat out ignores the absurd armor values of a mercenary with a hardsuit. Melee = 80. You know what could've been done better by staff? Better comprehension of context. "[paraphrased] Remember that your goal is to ensure the safety and security of the station/its crew." A hardsuited mercenary magdumping everything in sight is a threat to that safety and security of the station that the staff insist is security's responsibility. "As security, you should make every reasonable effort to arrest antagonists instead of killing them." The most painfully obvious statements are often the most insulting to the intelligence of security players. We do this, but, do you really expect every round to go ideally as your minds can fantasize should happen, or are we going to be realistic and approach these issues without bias and understand that it is rarely ever just one person's fault? Over the past several months people on this forum have asked for peaceantags to be effectively a bannable offense, and apparently it is current policy that peaceantags are now punishable, because people have felt entitled that antags need to make the round fun for them, the expected standard is now that just about every antagonist under the sun is expected to escalate to lethal. Meaning, because security is optimal when playing reactively, we have to often respond in kind to put them down because most antagonists are armed with defensive anti-stun gear that make it absolutely impossible to safely drop them. If we cannot kite the threat by ourselves or rush it with all-out offensive force in groups, we die to the antag. Full stop. Furthermore, contributing additional options that "we could use" to neutralize antagonists, well, let's go through this point by point. Neckgrabbing Dangerous and stupid vs. a hardsuit wearer. Ioning them further, although I think their hardsuit was already out of charge or pretty much there. Redundant and stupid, it only cripples their usage of modules, it does nothing else but remove their utility, they're still standing and capable of beating the shit out of someone in a fully armored suit. Since he's unconscious due to critical injuries, just grabbing him. The last concern on my mind is whether I can beat someone into unconsciousness when I am already intending to kill them. I hesitate to go this far, but possibly even breaking their hands Stupid, because breaking the limbs of a hardsuited individual does nothing, the hardsuit braces around their offending limbs and allows them to keep going without pain. Also absurd because it promotes breaking the Geneva convention just to arrest someone. The arguments provided by the banning staff member are extremely weak and that makes this warning just as weak. It deserves to be removed. If the antagonist received no discipline for their actions in causing the situation, then Amory deserves no punishment or warning for their actions either, because if your belief was that the antagonist doesn't deserve to be held responsible for their actions, neither does the security officer that killed them in a 2d spaceman Mafia simulator. A warning is literally a threat of a ban if the outlined 'behavior' happens again, which it undoubtedly will, because it actually is security's OOC job to physically deal with antagonists, whether you like it or not, the encounter is inevitable.

Vox break windows, cameras and light fixtures instantly with their bare hands, basically sharing a lot of attributes with xenomorph carbon mobs. Vox have claws that do almost triple melee damage and are also sharp, meaning they can deal internal damage with just their fists. Vox can leap and immediately acquire a basic grab onto someone close to them and it stuns the person they hit, regardless of whether or not they're wielding a riot shield. Said grab can also be immediately upgraded to an aggressive grab and it's even worse because the person they leap-aggressive grabbed is already on the floor, meaning they only have a 5% chance of breaking out with a resist. You have a 50% chance of breaking out of an aggressive grab while standing. The vox can also use a stealth suit and leap-grab combo someone out of invisibility and kill them in seconds with zero chance for counterplay. OP antag-exclusive species are not exactly new nor do we need to balance all encounters around 1v1. It is suicide to 1v1 any of the Vox, wizards, changelings, cultists, vampires, mercenaries, et cetera. No reason to diverge away from that formula and it would be really confusing to make newer antag races not square up to non-antagonist opponents.

You can implement dictatorship in your own department all you want but don't involve security into this and don't try to get regulations to play along with you. Regulationswere implemented to protect and support all employees for the profit of corporation not just heads of staff. I had to laugh at this because, while you're absolutely correct and I totally agree, it's wasted breath when you're trying to tell Xander that even the heads of staff need to work to a greater purpose than just themselves. You're not gonna be able to convince him off of abusing his official powers over petty crap in a round.

This is pretty much the justification just about every time this happens. Sec doesn't go around proactively accusing people of being vampires and asking research to remove their eyeballs like they're the station gestapo.

I don't see a PR open for mole people. I was suggested by another dev, even, to reopen this.

Almost any head of staff can determine what is neglect of duty, as they have the occasionally relevant expertise and more importantly, the authority to denominate such. A HOS can arrest a medical doctor getting extremely drunk in the bar without their own head of staff's permission, and does not necessarily need to defer to the CMO on what constitutes "getting extremely drunk" as it is a particular case where the fault is so obvious that excuses from another head of staff won't cut it. What a HOS cannot do is arrest someone for neglect of duty if a particular individual was determined to have made mistakes by their own head of staff. I.E., engineering apprentice accidentally causes multiple APC stations to explode because they tried to upgrade the SMES and cut the wrong wire, and the chief engineer states that they've handled it internally already. That's not a situation where another member of the command team can double down punishment. We've already had a period in time where security officers loitered about waiting for an excuse to arrest someone for NoD. The wording was changed to disallow them from doing this. We don't need those times back.

nah not until i hit 4000 with this account

thousand

I agree in that case. I'm not sure if that is what happened in this instance, though, OP's kinda neglected to go into detail.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=5697 For reference. Not typing it out again aside from making a couple distinctions in changes: The plural reference to the race is now 'the Peleng'. It is the grammatically correct format and how you refer to their race in their language. Antagonistic-specific external-threat species. Only available to certain antagonist types that display the character customization window. The Peleng cannot be wizards. Lorewise they would be extremely hostile to many of the local races. You are not permitted to do a peacegimmick as a Peleng, you're a member of a hostile protectionist and opportunistic alien race that punks on other sentients for good fun and a good living. I understand the importance of allowing player freedom to develop whatever characters they like, especially considering how "antagonist characters" are very difficult to establish throughout the course of several consistent rounds where we have rules disallowing this sort of thing. However, because this is an antagonist-only race, and I want to make them more distinct from the Vox, I must establish that the Peleng are extremely xenophobic and intolerant of other cultural systems or other persons that do not coincide or draw parallels with their own beliefs. The average Peleng may be more amicable to a pirate human (but not to the degree of an illustrious Lyakushka, and honorary Lyakushkas would not only be unheard of but downright insulting to imply would ever happen), but they are otherwise very intolerant to the idea of forming alliances with others that do not share a distinct caste system and un-egalitarian beliefs. There are some exceptions: The dionaea. The dionaea are the only lifeform that the Peleng would hold more respect for over the others. The premise of a gestalt consciousness is a cultural point of interest to the common Peleng, the psychology of it is nothing short of fascinating to them. They would certainly endeavor to acquire such specimens to return to their home system to research and potentially integrate into their culture. The Peleng methods of doing this are naturally very invasive. The skrell. The Skrell are only slightly liked due to their lack of mammalian characteristics. In a bygone age, prehistoric Peleng had to contend with tribal mammals on their home planet for the longest time until they wiped out the sub-sentients by staging an internal war in the mammalian Shukheo tribes and then declaring war during the confusion. While the idea of the Peleng being extremely enthusiastic entrepeneurs that don't forget their partners, the xenophobia still remains the same. This was covered a bit already. But note that they are opportunistic capitalists this time around, and not cooperative capitalists. They will cheat and scam to acquire even the smallest of personal advantage. Regarding overall military strength, lore-wise. The Peleng do not put so much focus on a military industry as they do on espionage and spy operations. Their fleets, while extremely numerous in numbers, are largely composed of many swarm-type vessels typically dispatched by large carrier vessels supported by smaller cruisers and the occasional artillery frigate. The large proponent of the Peleng fighting power is through large offensive emphasis on starfighter capability. Because of this, the Peleng cannot afford to risk fleet power against defensive screens of hostile starships unless they know how to win a fight in the most dishonorable and brutally efficient way possible without taking significant casualties. Being well-informed and well-armed with their wits is the greatest strength above a large fighter-based fleet, as even the Peleng are not that plagued by their own hubris to not recognize that their tactics fail in drawn-out combat. The Peleng prefer subterfuge over outright combat and unfair fights if the former proves untenable. The Peleng have additional melee buffs by virtue of having four arms. They will immediately acquire aggressive grabs, making them very dangerous in close quarters. They deal twice as much brute damage by virtue of synchronizing one set of arms to dole out punches. Their attack delay is also cut by 15% for all melee weapons and fist-fighting attacks, owing to their great natural agility. The Peleng are generally more acrobatic and have a generally higher dodge rate of melee attacks and non-hitscan projectiles. as long as they're facing the direction of the attack head-on. The Peleng are almost as fast as Tajarans. Owing once again to their great natural agility, the Peleng are generally able to kite super effectively. The spit of the Peleng would be buffed in terms of a conceptual presentation. Getting hit by a glandular spit from a Peleng will cause your controls to be reversed, temporary clumsiness and 15 units of space drugs to immediate start processing in your system. If a Peleng hits another Peleng with a caustic spit, they will instead process synaptizine in their system instead. Speaking of space drugs, the Peleng process space drugs as if it were synaptizine. Smoke w33d, kill humans. The Peleng still retain almost everything else stated in the original thread. Go read that if you want other details. This is mostly it. If you have questions, ask them. I'll ignore questions and feedback from commenters who didn't even attempt to read this thread or the other one.

You're a vampire. The moment someone considers you of xenobiological interest, you're totally fucked.

Yes, that is what makes every character/player distinct from one another. In spite of this, the concept of 'common sense' is still widely considered in this community as abiding to the server rules and the golden rule when it comes to an OOC standpoint. If this is somehow difficult to understand then please ask exactly what you do not get about this.

ICly it's interesting but OOCly you have to consider that going out of your way to take other characters out of the round is no bueno, so no frying toasters because they stole your purse. Unless there's some exception that you're allowed to use capital punishment instead of borgification. Discriminatory exception or something, but they have to deserve the death penalty as if it were anyone else for an average SS13 server. I'd be somewhat onboard with it otherwise but not necessarily ecstatic to do so.

I don't feel it to be a good idea to give IPCs more familiarity with humanoid concepts than they're already comfortable with despite not supposed to be having. Pain is a major one. Tasing down robots was an old aurora thing that only made sense at the time because nobody was brave enough to suggest that they should be immune to tasers. Then the bay merge happened and everyone's expectations changed with the times and the codebase. I do believe IPCs need more outward weaknesses that aren't necessarily 100% lethal to them. Giving ion rifles more utility in non-lethally disabling synthetics and mock-FBPs, and then adding more ion-based tools in general would help expand the amount of things that could pose as a general threat to an IPC over the course of the round. BUT, we're arguing ICly here, according to the OP. Ever seen I, Robot? You are experiencing a car accident. The film touches on this subject. Fondles it. Does unspeakable things with the subject in relation to physical contact, even. The problem, however, is the movie ends with too much of an idealistic and happy ending (making it quite anticlimactic and deconstructive of the earlier narratives built in the movie), completely throwing earlier themes of a corporate dystopic world out the window by ending the movie on a sweet note with hope and desire for a utopic world where synthetics are their own beings. It's unfortunate because this outcome is extremely unlikely, as your average IPC does not exhibit a cognizant awareness of 'feelings' or 'dreaming' such as the character Sunny does in the film. Why does Sunny do so while the similar synthetic models to itself do not do the same? Because plot. Unique hero figures that cause giant sweeping change for the sake of a good short story. A major difference compared to what's being built here, which is sort of a long con. Except not so much a long con that it's actually just a broader saga or something. While unfortunate that IPCs are limited a bit in terms of personal growth. This is mostly due to the fact that very few people who play IPCs, do so to mirror transhumanist themes. They play IPCs to play a sapient synthetic. To play within the bounds of a personality that is distinct from humans yet still limited, for some people, is an interesting and immersive experience that they are looking for. They don't want to play a human. They want to play a robot. Because of this, they're satisfied to play within those limitations so as to not only convince themselves they're playing a robot but also convince other people they're roleplaying as a robotic character. There is something to be lost when roleplaying as a robot, and that's largely due to overall detachment from human themes. I'll quit writing the same thing over and over, I promise. Robots supposedly have internal limitations. Unlike humans, robots also are way easier to justify on-the-spot capital judgement for, because they do not possess personhood such as humanoids do. It's a moral grey area to scrap a robot for doing something against what it was built and programmed to do. Few people that aren't SLF would care about the welfare of a robot, they have more important things to worry about. Robotic beings more than likely understand their expendability in this environment that they exist within, and because of this the way they offset being expendable is by acting productive above and beyond what they're expected to do. Their cold efficiency isn't just something that comes with the package, it's often exemplified by their cognizance of the fact that they could be replaced by a more effective model should they decide to slow down. If they do not have a purpose, they would not generate their own will to exist. They would succumb to entropy or destruction by the hand of another to potentially recycle them. In spite of this, a major signification of intelligence is pattern recognition. Predictive analysis allows them to gauge when someone appears stressed upon receiving certain information, just by examining facial expressionistic differences, and so on. The possibilities are generally endless, but more intelligently-designed robots are reliably intended to be observant and quick on the uptake when it comes to learning certain things about humanoid nuances. Not all of them will be oblivious, however. Severity of shock, largely. Relating to a robot on how pain works is not really necessary for them to understand, the only thing that matters is if their patient is capable of using their motor functions, and to operate efficiently and healthily when all is said and done. Even human doctors are liable to be unemphatic. Bedside manner is a skill learned alongside compassion as a requirement, and compassion is a unique attribute that can't be taught. If you have no compassion you cannot be expected to fake it, as you will never know how to be convincing with it. "You" being generally speaking, of course, not implying anything personal here, just making examples. I've met a lot of sociopaths through the various jobs I've held in my life. Companies don't really put too much stake in personable employees unless their jobs pertain to public relations and social exchanges on a more regular basis. While I don't think IPCs should be any head of staff at all with certain avowal exceptions, it's just that mold thing that would prove quite difficult to break to start with. Your ideas are interesting to say the least.

The B explorer suit is better. The contrast is less noticeable with B when looking at the boots. But if anything you could just put all of them in as various style choices. Add more cave dwellers (the creepy worm things) and make them hostile if you get too close, but they should drop ore too. Add nests for them to spawn from as well. Don't add spiders. If you want to add carp, remove the carp school events if you're going to make them spawn at such a high frequency.