the_furry

Thank you mirk, I appreciate the feedback from you and japak I’ve conveyed my primary thoughts about this issue and how I believe it should be approached. Although there are other things I could say about this, this is not my fight and I believe my primary thoughts are understood. There is a few last remarks I would like to wrap up. Alberyk, I am sorry that I am not familiar with all of yinzrs fighting style and so he may have been misrepresented in my comments (I don’t see yinzr fight often, I just end up cloning him after he died). From your comments it appears you feel like you need to defend yinzrs actions and clarify what yinzr would have done. The input is important in understanding who yinzr actually is and I can understand the desire to set that straight. One thing I do want to say is even if I misrepresented him, it was not a criticism. I was trying to convey if yinzr is the kind of lizard that would charge two armed guards then there would be nothing wrong with his actions (given the right context). You don’t have to defend if he actually would charge or not because either way he would be right in doing so. So it was not a criticism in anyway, I hope you don’t feel like I view yinzr as too robusty/bad (he’s one of my favorite lizards). Japak, it always bothers me that the admins don’t get on the same page when applying rules. The primary reason I don’t like it is it’s steadily caused inconsistencies of how rules are applied and what punishments are used. This creates a difficult atmosphere of playing because one admin will give me a warning with a threat of a ban over an action that another admin will think is funny and approve. This causes confusion as to whether the action is actually bad or not, and frustration over the confusion. I personally have experienced this frustration and confusion on several occasions. I don’t think you have to create a rule for every single possible situation in order for the admins to consistently agree with different forms of punishment. For moderating my servers and pages I teach value models and mindset development to my admins. This acts as a guideline so that when an admin is confronted with a new situation that is not covered in the rules they will be able to act accordingly so long as they keep the value models and mindset as top priority. By following this model my administrators quickly and consistently get on the same page and apply punishments pretty uniformly. There is no reason that head administrator couldn’t apply the same type of value model administration to the server. That is a criticism. Garnascus, I don’t have much to say to you mostly because this is not my fight. I do want to clear up one thing. I was not claiming that you are playing favorites. I was trying to convey that when you apply the rules in the manner that you are applying them (the specific action) it appears as favoritism to the player that receives the warning. As you said yourself you were simply not actually present at the time. That was actually a part of my dialog. When you apply a rule for a specific behavior to one person but not another it either shows favoritism, or (as you said) an absents of administration at the time of the incident; Both of which still cause resentment by the player that was punished for the issue. My solution resolves the apparent favoritism and absents of administration at critical times. But I never claimed you were showing favoritism.

So I was going to leave this as is but I’m noticing a clear incongruity between what several of the admins are saying here and it concerns me. Japak, you elaborate really well on the ideas that I was trying to get at. This was a role play issue, the act of robusting and downing two hostile people while unarmed is not inherently wrong for players to do. Had yinzr done what stamos did there would be no problem here. So the actual behavior is not what is in dispute (as the warning suggests) instead what is important is the context of the behavior. The warning is wrong, or at least worded wrong. I want to elaborate. Your statement "Just because others do it doesn't mean you should too", is true, but I understand the word ‘you’ to mean the character not the player. Had mirk been playing yinzr instead of stamos then he would not have received this warning (according to Japak if I understand correctly). The reason for that is because of the difference between lore/background/personality of the two characters. Stamos (from what I understand) is simply a cargo tech, he has no established background that would give him credit to downing two armed men, and so by doing so mirk broke immersion and character contiguity which resulted in poor roleplay. However if mirk was playing a character with an established security background and personality traits that include, rashness, boldness, zero self-preservation, then mirk would have fit immersion and contiguity just fine and it would make since for him to take down two armed men (the way yinzr does all the time). If this is the case then the warning and other admins have not conveyed it. So that’s what I get from japak and I agree, I think the warning should be removed or at least reworded to reflect it was an rp issue not that the behavior itself is bad. Let’s get into the incongruity between the admins in what’s said here. Garnascus says “Stamos could have been the most grizzled and hardened head of security in the sector and i still would have applied this warning.” Which would indicate an exact counter to what japak is saying. Garnascus is suggesting that the behavior itself (of downing two armed people while unarmed) is inherently wrong. Furthermore he says that he would have applied the same warning to yinzr and jackboot and anyone else that does this action. Now if that is the case there’s some clear problems with this. The first of which is the obvious favoritism being shown, I was on a round just last night where the player that played yinzr robusted two or three ninjas and I highly doubt he was warned (alist told me garnascus was active on at the time). As doomberg said, Enforcing robustness to this level is always a mess. It will create favoritism to some players (such as yinzr) while others are receiving warnings for the exact same behavior. What garnascus is saying is the exact opposite of what japak is saying, one of these stances I take major issues with. To sum up, I think the wording of the warning should be changed. I feel that way because as it stands right now if mirk creates a new character in the future that is an exact mirror to yinzr (yinzr2.0) and he does what yinzr would do then he would be banned even though he was doing exactly what yinzr would do with an established reason to do it. mirk hampered roleplay by playing a charater that has no established security or combat practice as if he was a god at combat. That is a role play issue, the behavior itself was not wrong; which is why others such as yinzr can do it and stamos can not. mirk, however, could do this (if he wanted to), by creating an established character that would fit that roleplay feature.

So I’m just gona throw my two cents in. I don’t think mirk should have gotten a warning over this and I can go indepth as to why that is the case. But I will sum up the inconsistency pretty quickly. The argument seems to be that no cargo tech should have been able to robust these characters nor even attempted to because they are cargo. Now if my memory serves right I’ve seen yinzr play as cargo tech plenty of times, and he is known to be robusty. I highly doubt he would have received a warning for this issue. Now if he would not receive the warning for the same behavior, I have to ask why would you single stamos out but not yinzr? Yinzr’s primary job is security, but if he is a cargo tech that means that it is possible to have a background in security/robustyness and still be a cargo tech. Now I don’t know what stamos’ background is but if his background involved piracy/security/robusting then I think it’s very fair and in character that he behaved the way he did (as he seems to establish about his character). So by giving stamos a warning you are singling out a player for the same behavior that would be completely acceptable by another player. That it simply unfair and sends mixed messages of what the rules of the server are. *Edit* Now japak says “you guys are cracking down on this sort of thing”. If that is true then you are cracking down on way the wrong person. Why not crack down on yinzr, or jackboot, or half the others in security that does this? Unless you guys have thrown them warnings to and others (such as myself) are just not aware of it. if that’s the case and it is a general and honest crack down then the warning to mirk does make since. I am curious to see if robustyness from other characters(specifically security) will be tolerated by admins, because thus far it has been.

So I've been playing botany alot lately and almost every shift i run into an issue that i can't communicat with the chef or bartender because gen com is muddled and no ones paying attention to pdas. Any idea if we can do this. I dont know scripting so idk if it would be easy to do this but im excited to see this happen.

The more i go over this the more i see examples where this would develop alot of fun rp opportunities. Any chance we could do this soon. I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to adjust Though im not a scripter so idk. Can i get some feedback from a developer?

Give left4zed a small mutation or another item that hydroponics has access to. According to the wiki the only chemicals that will cause mutation is unstable mutagen and radium. As it stands right now hydroponics has no way of creating any types of mutations in their plants without requesting chemicals from science or chemistry. This means that a large part of hydroponics cannot be explored on a regular basis. By giving left4zed a small chance to mutate the plants, it opens the door to a lot of what hydroponics should already be about on a science station (improving plant production and creating new plants). Now the biggest opposition I’ve heard to this is that hydroponics is more of a role-play job and so it’s good that they have to ask chemistry. A few things I can say about this. First when I ask for unstable mutagen I am lucky if the chemist/scientist will give me it (chemistry especially tends to house drug addicts more than decent chemists). Then even if I get mutagen, I’ve only ever gotten enough to mutate one plant into a new plant before I run dry. I’ve yet to actually explore mutated plants and half of what hydroponics has to offer because of this. I can understand wanting to encourage role-play and to remedy this I am suggesting a mutation level of four. Mutation four is half of what radium does and a fraction of what unstable mutagen would do (if I understand the math). So if you want to explore mutations at a much quicker rate you would still need to request the items and role-play with other departments. This set up encourages you to role play with other departments but it doesn’t inhibit you from exploring mutation without them. I would also like to point out by opening up mutation within hydroponics that gives a lot of opportunities to role-play. You can now create the perfect tomato that is full of nutrients; or the apple tree whose life span is a lifetime and that’s before we even talk about discovering and creating new plants. So I actually think this would grant more role-play opportunities than it limits. It lets you explore hydroponics to a much greater degree and overall is an improvement to the job.

Dna injectors can be put into syringe guns. Like, they are exactly what a syringe is yes? So why can’t they be fitted in a gun? It would give geneticists some more fun as antag (lets see how many sex changes we can get away with before we’re arrested). But in practicality, I see no reason why they couldn’t be put in guns.

Yeah I know there’s ways to handle it, but it tends to be a much bigger hassle, especially when you get a full staff 2 botanists chef and 2 bartenders. I had this last shift and I couldn’t coordinate with any of them simply because they all ignore general chat. I know they were ignoring general chat because when I walked up to them they were clearly attentive. It’s not uncommon for people to ignore the green wall of text. I guess I’m just saying it would greatly improve the cooperation of the food service departments (and improve roleplaying options for people that are in these departments) if we had this.

It’s regrettable that silvertalismen is even applying for this. Her rping ability far exceeds anything that the skrell has to offer and I am sadden to see her attempt something she’d so obviously be adept at. I’m sorry I just cannot give this app my approval, without first saying that silver is by far one of the most memorable players I’ve rped with. Of course it is not always good to be remembered… but in this case she has demonstrated time and again that she can produce effective and pleasant rp despite her inability to be a decent rper. she is not a decent rper, she is an excellent rper one that deserves exactly what is coming to her. That of course is not this skrell approval. silver deserves excellent rp in return once she has received her skrell for all she has done for this community. (this is a yes if you didn’t get it)

So the point is in this isn’’t that there is a lack of ways to communicate. It’s that the number one way people do communicate is missing. Yes there’s pda and request terminals or simply walking up to the person and talking to them, but the number one way /everyone/ communicates is with the department radio, which is lacking for all of food service making communication and cooperation more difficult to attain. Just last shift I had to ask repeatedly on general com for the chef because people have a tendency to ignore the green text of general com.

if they are some distance you can't just walk right over to them. pdas can work when the messaging servers not down, but a department channel for food service would bring the three different food services together a bit more. it opens up to haveing fun chatter the same way you have fun chater in all the other departments

Recreational/food service department channel So the bar kitchen and hydroponics works off eachother a lot. Bar is always asking for lemon and limes, kitchen is always asking for everything from hydro; and hydro is asking what each station needs. It gets annoying having to communicate and jumble up general coms or manually go looking for these people. Why not have a private channel for food services. That way we can talk about whose food we spit in coordinate with each other without interfering with other coms.

Why do you have to look up to him? Aside from in a literal sense. Don't you know that a power that big Comes with a bigger expense? And can't you see that he’s out of control And overzealous? I'm telling you for your own good, And not because I'm- yes loow is an amazing character, I believe he would handle a head position with respect.

First and foremost, I do apologize for the unpleasant experience that resulted from the interactions between our characters. Surely it was not my intention to cause any issues like that. I agree that it is wrong to inject (or even harm) someone for trying to walk into the lab and clone someone. As I told the admins, had that been the only issue I would never have done that. However it is more reasonable to act the way I did during a barrage of insults/racism which is what I did receive and reacted to. I understand where you are coming from and it sounds as though you understand why I actually escalated the issue as I did. Understanding and apology helps with resolution and so again I do apologize for the unpleasantness that happened. I am a very friendly player in most situations. Icly my character only acts out in aggression when someone is disrespectful or insults her. if you desire you can pm me to talk more. I’d be more than happy to role-play with you and your friend and teach you both all I know about medical. I only ask for friendliness and respect as any normal character would expect in a working environment.

So from what I understand according to the forum rules in ban requests/player complaints. Ban requests are not to be used to get a different ruling than what was already given in ahelps. This issue was discussed at length already and resolved, I really do not wish to have to go through (again) and explain (again) why I had not really done anything wrong. I will go through a few things just to point out how deceiving this complaint is. One, I did not outright refuse to clone. I said I had to ask command because the dead body was a suicide and genetics does not clone suicides. At which point this “discussion {that} went on in a circle until Isra assaulted you” involved the two medical doctors tossing constant insults and racist remarks to my tajara character. I did not “abruptly” assault them. I gave 3-5 warnings saying “if you keep calling my cat/breaking in my lab/insulting me, I will hurt you”. I also called for security to which they did not answer. Then I switched to push intent and shoved them several times telling them to stop. When they /still/ threw insults and shoved back I escalated it. Finally you don’t die from a blind injector, you died from an infection that as medical doctors you should have been able to fix. I even offered iccly to fix the eyes but your doctors kept running away and calling for security rather than fixing the problem. The doctor literally died hours after I injected them, I almost wonder if you guys let him die just to try pining it on me.

silverTalismen has done a great job with her diona and ipc roleplay. each character sticks to the race dynamic really well and really quite adorably. Foxes approve of this app +1

*has seen someone playing punpun and speaking commen*

Going by that logic why can diona magically speak after thay sample blood? You have to acknowledge somethings dont make sence. But its cute and fun for rp.

siikmaas for runtime. so whenever someone is playing runtime the should beable to speak cat. for the raisins.

Dare i ask for feedvack on travis davis, im slightly drunk so lets do it!

BYOND Key: xXtheFurry Player Byond Key: Ariadne1 Staff involved: (This is if the complaint was ahelped and if it was handled by a staff member) Reason for complaint: poor rp, metagrudge, insults Approximate Date/Time: 07/09 3pm central standard Lets start with this lovely name calling. OOC: XXTheFurryXx: is the autopsy table special some how? i was just throwing her on a table instead of draing her all the way to dorms OOC: XXTheFurryXx: dragins OOC: Ariadne1: It's a table for cutting up dead people. OOC: Ariadne1: Are you braindead. OOC: Ariadne1: How olda re you? So aridane demonstrates a major lack of rp. The narrative is simple, we were both playing geneticists. Right at the beginning of the shift she says she is going to take a nap. When I get into the lab I find her napping. I try waking her a few times and move her out of the lab. Instead of going all the way to dorms I simply throw her in the morgue and return to genetics(she wasn't locked in, she wasn't hurt, it was a harmless joke, I equate it to writing on someone with permanent marker while they sleep, harmless). After about 20 mins aridane returns, without saying a word she pushed me down and attempted to lock me in a secure locker. I attempted to rp saying things like ‘get off me” I barely had enough time to type it and avoid being throw in the locker. So a fight insure and I knocked her on her ass after she would not stop grabbing me. It’s only when I get the upper hand that she says anything at all and her first move was to call security because I was ‘killing her’ (I wasn’t). Security came in and stopped everything After security left aridane sat in a huff just turning dna modifier on and off to get her all the powers. I tried several attempts to rp and speak to her and she did absolutely no interaction. There was literally nothing as a geneticist I could do because she was taking the machine and doing nothing with it. I just had to sit there for a while or not play genetics that day. If I touched her or attempted to move her she screamed for security. This stupidity lead to a fight between us several times, to the point that I said fuck it. I added meta-grudging to the list because the next round she did pretty much the exact same thing with the dna modifierrr. She rped with other people just fine but the moment I was in the room she made sure to take up the modifier and do pretty much nothing with it once again kicking me out of genetics by lack of rp. Considering the last rounds interaction was not cannon(due to other reasons), and I had never met her character, it was very much meta. I’m going to add to this, that the day before, there was a rev round that I left during. I hadn’t even met ariadne1’s character nor meet aridane at all. After I ghosted I saw she yelled in general that my character is the kind of person that pretends to be ssd all the time or just goes ssd whenever I’m arrested. It threw me way of guard. One I can’t stand people that commit a crime then go ssd to avoid the sentence. I’ve been playing ss13 for what 9+ months now and I’ve done that once (I could only take so much bull). I had no idea where that hate or even comment came from considering I had no idea who the character or player was. I hadn’t even spoken to the charater until the next day when the genetics complaint came in. Idk if they knew me ahead of time but it just seemed to be the start of the meta grudging I experienced with genetics in this complaint. One tidbit because she brought it up in ooc and I’m going to go ahead and knock it down. When I brought Ariadne into the morgue I threw her on the autopsy table. It was the closest table there was and I saw no harm in it. icly there is no reason anyone would think that someone would accidentally dissect a living person. She said that I would have been fired for that. One no I wouldn’t; morgues use autopsy tables for random things all the time, hell I’ve been in a morgue and had dinner on the autopsy table. Two, if someone is dumb enough too accidentally dissect a living person that is surly not my fault. Lets add one last thing that happened as I type this. I was afk for a few mins on the server (she kept the genetics lab busy so it's not like i had much else to do). she grabbed my ssd character, not sure what she did but when I came back there’s clearly a grab log. so that's a thing

next time start with that piece of information >.<

Reporting Personnel: Safiya Isra Rank of Reporting Personnel: Geneticist Personnel Involved: Davis Jackson, Sslazhir Yinzr Time of Incident: last two shifts Location of Incident: Security/bar Nature of Incident: []Workplace Hazard []Accident/Injury []Destruction of Property [x]Neglect of Duty [x]Harassment [x]Assault [x]Misconduct []Other _____ (Place an x in the box that applies. If other, replace line and specify.) Overview of the Incident: Davis’ harassment spans two shifts now. Yinzr had allowed safi to sit behind the security desk on a very slow shift. He had to go for a moment and left safi. Jackson came in after and asked her why she was there. She told Jackson that yinzr was allowing her to be there. Safi wasn’t doing anything but sitting and waiting for yinzr to return. At this point Jackson told safi he was going to search her. it was a code green and safi was not doing anything violent. Safi would have been ok with a search but wanted a female officer to do it. she didn’t want to cause any problems. Before safi could give any sort of consent or request another officer Jackson grabbed her. safi pushed him away not wanting to be touched by him and requested another officer to search her. He then pepper sprayed her cuffed her and patted her down inappropriately. Safi didn’t want to be touched by him and he had no reason to. it was code green and safi was being compliant, she just wanted to wait for a female officer or ipc. Later he told safi it was her fault and there would be no point in reporting it. Next shift he started harassing her by following her around. She told him multiple times not to touch her. At one point he changed his clothing and ran up and put his arms around safi. When her friends came to defend her he pointed a gun at them. He also had beepsky set to arrest safi during the shift. Yinzr was around for both incidents and saw what happened. Did you report it to a Head of Staff or IAA? If so, who?: no one listen to safi. Additional notes: (If there are none simply leave it blank)

im glad im not the only one going crazy

you underestimate my seriousness of foxes!