Peppermint

People from the round were overwhelmingly enjoying it. Right now it's a shiny new toy that people will constantly want to play with. I don't see any issue in it staying the way it is as it makes the overmap actually somewhat dangerous as opposed to a bunch of pirates who aren't really able to fight the horizon. Plus you have to go to it and activate it any way. It doesn't really need nerfs either imo as making it toothless just circles back to the pirate problem.

This is absolutely not what I was trying to say, by the way. More that it being it's own staff role on the side would likely be better for inclusion across things like lore. Being staff is a voluntary role and I don't think things like whitelists in anything should be handed out in return and I feel I can say that pretty comfortably given I used to be in the same place. There will probably be a big overlap in staff and applications given you're more likely to join in one area or another if you're into the server, but moving from player antags to staff getting preferential treatment for stuff like this would really not be great. A new feature lots of people will want to try should not be locked behind a different colored name. It seems kind of against what the whole plan here is, in giving players room to tell their own stories. Though should it be a higher requirement than command? Absolutely. If anyone was given extra treatment it should be developers, given they're essentially doing paid work for free. We're a community and should help one another because we want to. Whenever extra things are added, it goes badly - can see it on any other server.

This would be SO fucking cool.

After thinking about it some more and looking at the arguments, kind of coming around to that this could indeed be a pretty bad idea in execution. I think the only thing I'd like is the recognition tokens and things like IC interviews to form parts of articles. Right now it'd def be nice to get more recognition but that is only if the server keeps pushing for these big, explosive events. If it doesn't, kind of starting to agree with the consensus that it might be pretty bad. The one exception to this being the memorial. Which I think should add some nice RP.

What do you think about keeping it more centered on the Horizon? My worry for time also comes up for the actual briefing. It takes forever to get landing parties together and most people get pretty bored of exo ruins and similar after a while. Keeping the option to be there is good, but I think it'd be a bit better off factoring mainly on the Horizon itself - that way you also don't uproot people too often from what they want to RP separate from the conflict side.

I cannot agree enough in regards to that antags really just don't work for HRP and haven't for a very long time. Pretty much any regular player who's been here for more than a few months is probably going to say the same. The issue is however is that the people discussing this, working on the discord, and in the forums themselves, are always the same dozen or so people which can lead to something of an echo chamber. I'm concerned what this might do to the wider player base, though I suppose there's a line of thinking that if they're not getting involved, it's really their problem. So I think feedback really needs to be actively encouraged in game as well as on here, and absolutely not with any kind of default poll. I suppose my general concerns are: - The 'GM' role as that's really what this is, is going to be very high intensity and stress. Given how the player base is and the expectations will be, I think this is probably going to VERY quickly lead to burn out. I GM pretty regularly with close friends and even then it can be quite taxing, so having an entire server watching your every move may honestly be too much. The scenario blueprints will help but it'll still be a lot. - 2 hour rounds may not be long enough. It's the engineering issue where once you're actually finished with your project, it's time to go onto the next one. I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or not. For me, 2 hours out of my day to play a round is a really big chunk of free time. If that goes up even higher, it's going to be a headache for the folks who work long hours and have other responsibilities. Using the template system is probably useful but I can't see how the round timer isn't going to need to go up. You see this in events where getting the volunteers ready always takes longer than expected. The storyteller will absolutely need time to set up before going in. - The options you've given are pretty much admin level. I have my own thoughts about how mods/admins work and how frustrating being in the former category can be, and this might make it a bit worse, though it's going to depend on how this story teller role comes to be - is it a staff role? As I think it's probably going to have to be. The other thing is more from a practical PoV that the perms there - especially build mode - are extremely fiddly and I very much expect some unfortunate accidents to take place. Again, not a bad thing, but it'll need to be really well documented. - This might further increase the lean into 'LARP' territory. It'll probably do away with some of the quieter, social RP types of rounds which I don't think is a good thing. In general these points are negative, but mostly as I'm not sure what to say positively - in the sense that this is absolutely where I think the server should go. So it's more just stuff in bear in mind.

Thing is, I agree with basically everything here in the sense that I'd really adore a return to the smaller stuff we used to have. The stakes are now so high and it's that disconnect between 'this weak we're raiding a Konyang powerplant with zombie IPCs' to 'We're boarding a solarian battleship' with what the actual main server and rounds are like. If we can go back to that background setting of more gentle, slower paced events I'd be really happy and probably play a lot more. Problem is, we don't seem to be. Pretty much all the event arcs since the Horizon (I think? I'm probably missing one?) have been either very lethal or very combat driven so losing a character with no potential upsides and the same SCC indifference just feels weird as well as a little OOCLy unfair. A return to that kind of thing could absolutely do away with stuff like this as it just wouldn't be needed, albeit outside of lore mentions would be nice. But that's not the aurora we have now and I'm not sure there's enough community interest in it going back.

I don't think the xeno species thing is too big of a deal. I'd have liked IPCs included as I think it would have been fun, interesting, and just a nice change to allow them. That said, it was a possibility we'd be going for human/skrell and whilst I think it's a shame and a little dull, it's not the end of the world and it was expected. However speaking for myself, it feels like these changes don't really alter very much. Nukes are so rarely used. Like, maybe three, four times in as many years I've played have I seen one. So giving the XO access to them is kind of something that isn't going to make too much difference. The thing more is that when there's no Captain, the XO is unchanged. It'll be doing the same thing, other than advising any acting Captains how to operate which I think is probably going to be quite rare. Now, when there are captains, we already have it that orders coming via the captain to the XO to the rest of the ship should be followed. It may be that I'm not understanding properly as it could very well shift RP and I'm excited about it any way - I don't think it'll be as bad as a lot of people are making out. That said, I'm curious as to what the reasons were for the XO not to be a second in command at all times, under their own power? As that's what I thought I was voting for at the time, though I'd imagine it's a gameplay consideration for other heads? If it is, I think it's a shame, as the WL can already be removed and if someone wants to trample people, they could just select captain any way. Regardless, attempting any change is a step forward imo.

I'm not massively into the species changes but both here and on the discord, people are going a bit too hard and really aren't using their nice words? It sucks when you lose a character. It really does. I've done so too (RIP some dominia lore). But when this poll came out, there was a possibility of that happening so I don't think it's very fair for folks to act like this is totally out of left field. It was discussed back then as well. I would like the XO to actually be more of a 2IC. But worst case, we have some change, can see how it goes and if it sticks. Keeps things fresh, though I am sympathetic to people who won't be able to play their character in the same way - is there no possibility of using it to change their arc up, give them some biases, ect?

I also don't care too much about the species changes. I think they're a shame as I don't really know what things do to the fun side of RP, but I don't think they really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. That said, I agree with the sentiment that this isn't really a 2IC? It's just what we have now, with the nuke codes (when was the last time these were ever used?) and putting pen to paper for something the Captain could already do and order the XO to take over tasks they're too busy with. Idk. I don't really get what these changes accomplish outside of a tiny bit extra RP, I suppose. But I've been wrong about this stuff plenty of times so maybe it'll be the same here again,

These all seem like really good things. I very much appreciate people being willing to give it a go, despite there being a lot of understandable misgivings. Excited!!

I was one of the people involved in this. Really, if you were 'out' as a woman at the time, chances are you dealt with it. Them being in an article really couldn't bother me less and whilst it's not my place to talk for the other people they did the weird, horrible shit to, completely cutting this out as an option for lore arcs because of one piece of shit seems to me a very big shame. Someone being in an article does not reflect the server, nor the lore staff, nor anyone else involved if that person decides to do bad things. Though they likely should be removed, sure, a complete blanket ban on an entire community for something someone did....4....years(? 3? Idk) or so ago just seems wrong. We'd have a whole lot of lore and policies to remove and never enact again if shitty people contributing to them meant they should be gone. That said, I can appreciate wanting absolutely nothing to do with anything these people touch. I can't comment on the Odin stuff; I wasn't around for it when it started. That said, the community is generally better these days (I think? I hope? I doubt much has changed that much lately?) so I'd hope they could be trusted. Personally I'd suggest CCIA getting more involved in this stuff alongside the lore team, should they be willing to/interested. Would help erase the big bad guy image, would get them some more positive stuff to do in the sense I doubt they enjoy constantly handing out punishment as their main role, ect. I had some very basic ideas in my post above - even just making the IC CCIA medals be a short, public thing for big arcs might be nice. Which has happened a little previously...in...the last tajara arc...maybe? I can't remember exactly when it was. For increasing the staying power of events, Rusting suggested a section in the library be used to show off bits and pierces from past arcs. If that's something lore was interested in, small stuff like that could really help imo. As could someone else's suggestion here of smaller things happening here and there at the conclusion but, again, this stuff has happened before so it may just be it's been less possible lately given the work and time involved.

I would implore the people reacting to actually put their voices in. Given I was part of the conversation and encouraged a forum post, will throw my two cents in as well albeit I mostly just agree with what Sue has stated. Negative interactions are often celebrated. People gloat about how many people were killed in events, get excited over how great it'll be when more die in the next big arc, and certain volunteers really seem to be out to get you as opposed to help whoever's running it tell a story. The third one less so these days, but the former still very present. Beyond the fact it's just so weird how badly people want characters killed off, the very same people often have a big push back against anything positive. The argument often going down to how people will start seeking attention or there'll be hellgigamega marines wandering around with 20 medals pinned to their chest, which is just such an absolute nonstarter. If people want to run into the meatgrinder they can already do it. Likewise nobody is advocating for these massive rewards being thrust upon you for participating, but a note in an article or a medal or something on your records isn't really that much? The thing here is that we've had these things before. People are in articles. We had memorials. We used to have IC medals. None of these awful things really took place and I've found that Aurora is absolutely terrified of trying anything like this despite absolute worst case, it can be rolled back on. You can see it in the memorial thread. People being very vocal about how awful it might be so therefor shouldn't be included and we shouldn't even try. This is a pretty lengthy post so I do apologize. But I've stepped away a good few times from Aurora and have always felt somewhat bitter about wasted potential, so I do hope it's at least an okay read. In general I feel that characters that stick around longer term are often directly discouraged. Event arcs (some of them) are wasted. And things like Sue's post around positive events directly lead to how there just doesn't feel to be any point at all in keeping a character going for more than a few days. Especially when the vast majority of rounds are the day to day, friendship/relationship driven RP with the odd conflict thrown in, feeling like you can't advance, have to make your own arc up, can't really interact with the setting all lead into....why is it I'm playing this character, in this RP enviroment, again? Sure we have some nice lore set pieces but I'm a witness to events, not someone actively partaking in them. I can view this universe sure, but I can't really interact directly with it. Movement from the Aurora Moving from the aurora to the horizon removed a level of static world building with a shared setting in favour of a more dynamic setting with more options for lore and events. My personal feelings on this aside, in doing so it has put greater emphasis on the Horizon's place in a living, breathing world that otherwise we just read about in wiki articles. Issue is, I feel more disconnected from it than ever. Nothing my character does is going to have any lasting impact. Nothing I do as a player is going to really matter a round after the event is concluded. Very little is reflected in game as to whatever the last saturday's frag fest was. I'm sure people who were around for the original warbling arcs, or the first tajara arcs, can remember how even just extended rounds during downtime had a lot of RP, had a lot of interest, and generally just atmosphere about whatever was going on as we were in a setting where the outcome was more directly impactul. Now it feels like the second the arc ends, it'll be gone next week and we'll be onto something else. But bigger than that; nothing the Horizon as a group setting does matters. There'll be an article and that'll be it. There'll be a new arc next week and it'll all be forgotten and I think a big reason for this is due to how characters aren't encouraged to stick around. As others have said, there's this strange gap between these big, world altering events and how it just...never goes any where? I don't know if this is a lore thing, an admin thing , or just that people don't have time these days but I really miss things like the old Lance inspections, or visitors during KoTW, or the attacks on characters investigating the big bad cult on extended rounds. My point being is that we've had positive stuff previously and leaning into this would help bridge the gap between the change to a dynamic setting and the relative lack of impact. Fear of change I feel that Aurora has these big worries over changes, especially any that may give another player a moment in the spotlight. Again, the memorial post is perfect to show how, many of which you can't really argue against due to being unable to disprove a negative. Do we really think if this memorial went ahead we'd have dozens of players throwing themselves in to die? Or that more weighty, emotional RP is somehow a bad thing? It feels so strange to have tragic events happen and nobody give a fuck two days later, though I suppose that's more of a player issue. That said, positive reinforcement would likely go a long way. The other side is how new players will apparently be scared away? As if the (for SS13 any way) much more rulesy, RP requirements won't already? Or the hundreds of thousands of words on the wiki? It's a complete nothing-y thing and to be absolutely honest, if characters having impact on the world scares them away as they themselves haven't yet, I'm not really sure how much they'd be bringing to the table any way. There's also 'but it's not realistic!!!!' argument or the 'The SCC is too indifferent!!!' argument and these really don't mean anything imo. So much of the setting is massively inconsistent as playing employees of the soulless megacorp wouldn't actually be very enjoyable lol. Which, you know, is why this isn't really enforced any where else either. It's one of those 'gotcha' arguments and unless the server is going to start actually leaning into this part of the setting, I don't really thing it's relevant. Suggestions Outside of allowing people to get recognition through the lore (a name here or there, that's it) and the return of the captain's rewards, there's a lot of small things can be done. Sure, I know commendations exist, but since their inception, can anyone argue that they've been used with any regularity? The problem to me being that they're entirely OOC in a sense. You get told you got one. Cool? Instead they could be done in-game in a little ceremony, people could be given flavor bonuses to their pay (which has happened I think), people could be offered flavor promotions if they want to retire a character, ect. All things CCIA could get in on to help reduce the image of just wanting to murder a character. All would be canon, but also backed up by server staff which I think would add a lot of legitimacy.

Not to jump on you too quick lol, saw the notification as you posted it ^^. I would point out that all of those things you've listed are direct buffs, especially EMP resistance and being able to self-repair, though the latter is always kind of wanted given there aren't that many machinists. Likely due to the medical system and how dull opening, add wire, closing panels is. To follow on from this, given it's some kind of law that it comes up in every IPC lore app these days, but does this kind of thing include bioshells? With the obvious caveat of them being the like, mythical aim that doesn't really seem very realistic from a coding pov. I like the answers tho. Ambition is good. Always been friendly and open on the handful of times I've asked about stuff previously, so good luck with your app. Hope it goes well.

I wouldn't say I know Noble super well, but all the passing interactions I've had with them have been very positive. I think their temperament would fit in well. There's always a lot of talk in synth apps around more diverse IPC medical, bioshells, ect. However it's one of those things that everyone seems to apply with, but given it's such a big development hole, never really manages to get off the ground. So I'm curious about what you plan to do/envision for an IPC med system and whether or not there's interest in the latter, as it's one of the things you mentioned. Unless it's just more little tweaks to what there currently is?

I don't really see an issue. Looks to me you're pretty shaky on medical still and it's led to some problems, so playing intern for a while seems just fine. Do it for a few weeks to a month and you'll be unbanned on appeal I'd imagine. More than enough here through notes and whatnot to feel Campin did not make the wrong call. I'll close this tomorrow provided there's no new evidence.

Hi. I'll be taking this. @CampinKiller Your side when you have a sec

Sure, I'll lift it

I will lift this but you're on your last legs. Another perma won't be lifted.

Why'd you do it during an event round tho?

I'm a big fan of more lethal combat. Would be cool to at least test it and see what happens. My only worry would be making it too lethal to the point medical can never do anything.

Take care of yourself, Gabby. Be strong and hopefully the time to heal helps.

You're only just off of a ban so I'll be declining this for now. Feel free to reapply in a month or so and you'll be given a trial then.

Big fan of further job differentiation. To be honest I'd be fine with more alt-roles across the board as they lead to a wealth of character differences and encourage creativity and roleplay. This all sounds pretty good to me.

This would be much easier to do if we didn't have to build the ship each time