Garnascus

Anyone ever heard of moonguard? Nah but seriously i used to play a Minecraft RP server way back in the day based on tolkien fantasy.

Right so, its been a few days boy and im interested to see where you stand on this now. I believe I have adequately reasoned through every point you have brought up but if there's still some points of contest id like to hear them.

If memory serves I believe our Dev's and loremaster are working on an updated version of the loyalty implant directives to get rid of some inconsistencies as to what they actually do.

Is it possible that this largely may have developed from a misunderstanding? Even though reyjakai said he announced it and had PDA messages between nia and him delta did say he was unaware. Its entirely possible he missed the announcement and frankly if he saw two people with powers in escape, one was one of staff and the other the geneticist I can understand at least investigating it.

That seems reasonable to me honestly, from what you posted here I don't think taking a medium was wrong. I think we can all agree there's a line to be drawn here about how far you can go with genetic powers even with permission. I also think fury's defensiveness is understandable. Security breaking down genetics to arrest testers is a thing that happens so maybe she's already conditioned to be a bit jaded in dealing with security. I don't know if Safiya DID cross the line but I would like to hear her side from earlier in the round.

Those are all good points delta. Its starting to look to me like maybe delta wasnt t being unreasonable here considering he also didn't actually arrest you. I wasnt watching the rest of the round but if its true Safiya was goofing off with TK even just having fun then perhaps it may have gone a bit over the line? Was Safiya spoken too during the round before this incident at departure?

Right, hi everyone I'm a trial mod who was ghosting and observing this situation up until the shuttle docked at centcomm as I had to get ready for work IRL. For transparencies sake let me verify some fractals here. Safiya and the warden did indeed have genetic powers. Safiya and the warden where indeed moving lockers. The HoS did indeed ask for written approval of the powers. The general consensus in msay is that genetic testing is entirely an IC issue so long as we don't get rampaging hulks or self antags. What is described here is a situation that happens so often I could retire. Regardless of what the directive states the general consensus I see is that verbal permission is indeed enough to leave the lab and honestly it shouldn't be an issue in the first place. I have a lot of experience playing CMO and with Safiya, out of all the geneticists running around with powers she is honestly the last one you should be going after. In fact I find the whole notion of going after geneticists with powers in the first place completely absurd. Alright so you find a guy with a few powers outside and without permission and brig him for a bit. What have you accomplished exactly? Now of course if they begin distributing it wily nilly or causing a ruckus then its a problem (and perhaps something to ahelp). Granted I didn't see the OOC remarks but I don't really see how they where called for.

I tried holding you hostage, i shouted over command comm that i had a hostage and told them to back off. The other person who was also frustrated a bit was the detective but even he had some dialogue and i "flexed my military might" so to speak as he made his way to security. after a bit of RP i ordered my goons to grab him and i proceeded to bring him in to convert him. He made it explicitly clear in LOOC that was frustrated about joining a round thinking it was extended and in reality there is an antag, a frustration i completely get and thats a reasonable point, but like i said i had nothing to do with that and it spawned from a small error. Also its kind of tricky about the enthralling. The opinions were divided even in msay about what SHOULD happen between the loyalty implant and a vampire enthralling, it could be that the code here has them override each other, so maybe when i enthralled you it "broke" your implant but the later implant...renewed it or something. im not sure and frankly its irrelavent here. all i can tell you is there was ZERO indicitation from my screen that the enthralling had failed, i saw red text saying i poured power into you and i saw the enthralled icon above your head. Ill concede a LITTLE bit on the exchange in security, i intially was going to attempt some form of dialogue display before i did anything but one of my enthralled moved to handcuff you on my earlier orders, which led to you retreating and getting harm battoned by my guys. Im not going to say i played all of this perfectly or that i could have done a few things differently. But did i make such glaring mistakes that they deserve a character complaint? HELL NO, i maintain i did a fine job as my first vampire round.

From the time i physically saw the ERT to you becoming a vamp-slave was MAYBE a minute and twenty seconds. Im sorry i wasnt exactly thinking for the BEST possible situation for all, i needed to make a decision FAST. at this point you are nitpicking me. even still i thought i was doing, and i STILL think that i did the best i could and created an enjoyable situation.

Well see heres were we disagree, I maintain that my prime action this round was to further RP for all i involved and i believe i passed this directive with flying colors. i define furthering RP as making it as fun as possible for my "victims". what did i do? i made them antags, gave them guns, geared em up and started my own private army. Like i said halfway through i wanted an enemy to fight and it would have been wrong of me to order them to murder the crew. you say that i cared more about my goal and that i overlooked the enjoyment of others but what i am saying is i believe that i accomplished BOTH equally and i maintain STRONGLY that i did my best to provide people the chance to continue to round as part of my army. Now you can say "but what if people dont WANT that!" and i suspect its a large reason behind your complaint. Frankly there is a grain of truth to this. there was another player frustrated that he joined an EXTENDED round and then got vamped, and i get that and i apologized in LOOC but even he eventually was cool about it and i did my best to make it fun for him. Why did it say extended? the previous round was an event hosted by tenenza and tuiee. a colony event. after the client restarted they started a vote to get feedback for the event. Unfortunately this vote being called before the server called a round type vote kinda broke things, so the timer never got frozen and it defaulted and started an extended round. Neither tenenza or tuiee had powers as secondary admins to restart the round and as such called a SECOND vote concerning adding in specific round elements. So there we have it, i really feel like this frustration you feel is partly based on an error with the server and a small mistake from the ten and tuiee, it happens and i really dont think its that big of a deal.

I dunno what to tell you here, in fact there was some differant opinions between whether or not the loyalty implant would work against enthralling and i saw it an ample oprrotunity to learn. I got the notification saying i had mind-slaved you and i even saw the mind-slave icon above your head so....i dont know what to tell you.... Is greentexting just an abstract and surreal criticism we slap onto antags we don't like now? you're right nobody COULD stop me and i knew it! which is why i intentionally goaded ERT into coming and had my forces wait inside security rather than hunt down and murder whatever stragglers may have been left. also theres a key point i need to bring up here. roughly thirty or fifty seconds BEFORE i first initially bit you i spied through the walls with my vampire x-ray vision that three ERT members had breached into the side maint tunnel by the processing room. At that point i was mad scrambling to get enough blood in me to convert you and organize my forces enough to deal with the threat, what ensued what a glorious firefight that left me dead and my forces decimated. I could have changed some things up but overall im extremely satisfied with how the round turned out.

The officer harm batoned you ONCE and it was an ACCIDENT, i specifically told them non-lethals. I included you by enthralling you, you could have then joined me fight against the ERT! instead you took this to LOOC and straight up said you REFUSED to play as a vamp slave here and even ahelped to ask for it to be removed. Im sorry once again but this is horrible sportsmanship. if i had my officers stun baton you and then drain all of the blood in your body and left your corpse for ERT to find then i could understand your frustration. You're right this is a High RP server and you're god damn right i wanted a blood bath. High RP does not mean we cant have mass chaos and after the first few enthralls i got i decided i wanted to build an army as strong as i could, taunt ERT into comming aboard and then have a war. that was my choice and i stand by it and i believe everyone had fun doing it including the ERT. i went to great lengths this round to make sure even if i DID kill someone by draining their blood i had them cloned quickly to bring them back into the round.

RIght so, im sorry but thats not exactly true. Let me preface this yes i had the majority of security enthralled. After i had built up my army and geared them up i sent a taunting fax to CC wanting them to send an ERT, they continuously spoke over the announcement system that an update was required. well its not hard to put two and two together that an ERT was coming and it was coming SOON. So i ordered all of my minions to bunker down in security and gear up/shore up the defences as ERT was literally minutes away. So here we are in an INCREDIBLY tense situation and then comes along the HoS. i asked you over command radio to come inside and said over security radio that a hostile force was on its way here and i would debrief you inside. After you got inside yes i ordered my minions to stun you so i could enthrall you. Now let me defend these accusations and why i think its frankly absurd you are even posting a complaint. I did NOT have the luxury of time to have some cool long drawn out dialogue with you as i said, ERT WAS MINUTES FROM OUR LOCATION. Also the "SSD hostages" you claim were in fact also my thralls, they had simply gone SSD and i had i think...two of them moved inside earlier on and then forgot about them. Lastly i will attack directly your attitude here, you are upset that you didnt get to join an extended round and you didnt get to RP as a HoS without antags, look man im sorry and yeah that sucks but i was INCLUDING YOU in the RP i had decided from the get go i wanted this to end in a blood bath with my glorious army against ERT.

Is there any other points that need to be adressed here?

Its been a while, i admit i partially forgot about this and for that i apologize but i haven't wasted the time. I have taken considerable time to think about this issue and frankly i have arrived at the conclusion i was in error. While i don't disagree with some of my earlier statements about some people getting screwed over because of the nature of this game i do still think we all have a responsibility to at least attempt SOME form of fairness to our fellow players. I focused on what i believed to be a situation in which techno was caught between a rock and a hard place but in reality and from the PDA message now posted i admit its sketchy at best and not a reason to blow someone's brains out without any RP. So what should i have? well as was stated techno IS on thin ice as he was recently unbanned from antag roles but i admit im hesitant to put forth for a perma ban considering i acted in error here and i dont know if im confortable with such a heavy sentence being passed when he did his best to get you cloned. Make no mistake that while i don't believe a perma-antag ban would be appropriate i also don't think a slap on the wrist would do any good either, techno knows whats expected of antags by now ( or he should, no excuses) and this type of behavior is frankly unnacceptable even if he did get the player cloned quickly. At the very least i should have attempted to communicate the topic in msay with my fellow moderators/admins something all of us almost always do but like i said, i screwed up here.

So ive given this one some though and i think i might be able to explain what im conflicted about here. Lets start by talking about what i think is /good/ here. techno gathered some evidence and pieced the clues together and just when jboy thought he was most safe taunting them over the radio under the alias, in reality techno knew it all in an interesting plot twist and shot him dead in the bathroom. This sequence here i think is interesting, however we can all also universally agree that getting shot out of no where at least from jboy's perspective isnt very fun. So....what do we do here? do we ALWAYS have to ensure RP at least makes some effort to make things interesting for the victim or in slowing things up do we let go of otherwise interesting situations that could happen? Or is it perhaps more healthy to embrace that not everyone is always going to have a "fair" time and with all the ludicrously lethal and dangerous things and situations in this game its a wonder any of us are alive at the end of a round. At the time i wasnt entirely sure and im still not. Essentially what im trying to say is i think there was a decent amount of good here, and a sizable portion of bad here. this of course brings up another conflict, what SHOULD i have done if indeed i did make a mistake? should i have banned techno from antag roles as hes on thin ice? or should i have added a warning as perhaps it wasnt ENTIRELY a gank? or is it something as simple as a communication error and me not explaining well enough at the time to jboy why i did not consider him to be ganked? I dont know but i do know that asking these questions will make me a better moderator.

I disagree, the complaint on suicide was simply an error in communication and a vagueness of when suicide is accepted or not. I had my reasoning for the one concerning frances's CMO and i admitted i should have pmed them about it. This current complaint i am still conflicted about. I do no make excuses for my mistakes nor am i overly concerned about making mistakes in the first place. If im shown i am wrong or made an error in judgement ill admit to it and do my best to fix it. If i worry too much about making mistakes then i might ignore or hold back and stagnate my ability as a moderator. Essentially i look for every opportunity, mistakes especially as a learning experience.

I suppose i figured he just wanted to buy some time? although at this point i admit im extremely conflicted. It might be i made an error in judgement here...

Maybe it should...maybe it shouldn't, the problem is there's such a grey area with these things.When you witnessed the acts he didnt yet know you were a traitor as well so he needed time to "gather evidence" so to speak. Also i think he told medical staff so you could be cloned because he was being a good sport, silencing you is all well and good but you still shouldnt be taken out of the round COMPLETELY like if he had taken your head and spaced it.

both individuals were antags. My reasoning for this being ok is essentially from doom's sticky regarding gank situations. http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2193 I reasoned that since your character jboy had caught kaipov in numerous illegal and incredibly incriminating situations that kaipov could consider you an extreme threat and could attempt to silence without RP. that was my reasoning and so far im standing by it, i am however open to being shown im wrong. Its entirely possible for me to make mistakes.

Essentially, yes. i felt he had reason to silence you as ERT had showed up and you had knowledge of his activities. He felt their was too much of a risk of you ratting him out so he followed you around and then shot you to death. He was likely prompted by you about to rat them out when you said they had both been naughty over comms.

I investigated this issue and found the jump to lethals reasonable yes, i informed you during the ahelp that there is certain evidence that i cant give out due to IC in OOC rules. however i can tell you now. He was aware you knew he was the traitor and he also knew you were the traitor due to finding PDA message logs on katelynn's PDA pinning the traitor title on you. He reasoned that with this information you were going to give out this information to ERT/security and he would be screwed so was left with no choice but to execute you. The knowledge of very incriminating activities as well as proof you being a traitor as well led me to logical assume the jump to lethals was justified and that was the decision i made. Look if i made a mistake thats one thing and ill do my best to fix it.

Ill try to communicate things a bit better in the future, Pm's can be kinda inefficient to explain vague concepts like this one. regardless thats my job as a moderator. Hopefully there are no hard feelings.

In the interest of transparency this post is gonna be a bit long as i want to fully explain my reasoning here. So lets start at the top then. you wanted to commit suicide, you wanted to destroy your character due to IC reasons. The official server stance on this is that its ALMOST always a bad idea for a non-antag to commit suicide and that you should always ahelp before you do. You followed the rules correctly and did indeed ahelp about it. So why do we have this rule? and why does it appear to be so vague about when you CAN kill yourself? Well lets examine the average IC individual as stated in the rules. You are an employee of nanotrasen and are of sound mind and reasonable disposition and relatively free of mental deficiencies. we would not for example allow a character with a large PTSD backstory come onto the station and then commit suicide after hearing some gun shots. We might however allow a suicide during an antag round after a character witnessed two of their friends being murdered/linged and had to deal with some tramatic situations such as hostages/blackmailing. The long and short of it is it takes an incredible amount to push any character over the edge, while your backstory can have a little influence perhaps it cannot be one of the major reasons i feel. So lets examine what you had happen IC, you played the warden and told me you were the most efficient warden ever designed and as such wanted to commit suicide because you felt wronged, and insulted by the officers who you were trying to help. In reality it looked like to me from my investigation you also had a hand in this conflict. You barked orders at them and answered the insults given to you. having a reason to commit suicide be "show them what they did wrong" is simply not reasonable. nor does this conflict warrant a suicide.

this was exactly my reasoning.