TrickingTrapster

I'm kinda of against this. Not just because of the points doxx brought up, but because being dead is hella boring. So, let's say you die. Okay, plot for the round, great, whatever. Now, you either get to watch your body and see if you get cloned, waiting and hoping you can continue playing as that character (which in usual cases takes longer than a respawn timer or doesn't even happen at all because of unpopular roles needed for it), wait at least one sixth of a regular round's time (and that's not factoring in the time you've already spent as another character), all the while all you can do is watch and wish you were still playing. There may be some antags that can interact with spirits (like the wizard or cult) but since deadchat is just a glorified OOC for observers that has absolutely lost all meaning for RP purposes. So unless being dead becomes not boring and won't feel like a chore instead of feeling like you contribute to the round I'm going to go with a solid no against this idea.

Actually, no, not just no mechanical issues. There were no RP issues either. In fact, Yumi was called upon to do tasks over other engineers by a lot of regular CEs. (There was even one time a CE promoted her instead of actual engineers to interim CE just because they had to cryo, back on exodus where things were more lax.) And don't worry, I know a mute command member is ridiculous, but I seriously don't see the issues that you're coming up with. Using your PDA in EVA works fine, and remember that it's muteness, not deafness, so others can just talk to you by headset if they want. What I meant by extreme disability would be having no arms as an engineer, for example. Literally being unable to do any task given to you because of your disability. And yes, I still hate this rule a lot, not only because it's too blanketed, but also on a personal level because it forced me to either change Yumi in such a way that it was no longer fun for me to play her or retcon 1.5 years worth of RP.

Hello, primary mute character player here. (Yumi Yotin). I'm probably super biased on this, and I did get hit hard by the rule coming in place. I was going to make a suggestion on a topic like this, then saw this and found the discussion being about that anyway. I personally think the rule is too blanketed. It should be handled on a case by case basis, not just 'you have a disability so you can't be interesting in this department'. When I played Yumi as an engineering apprentice, there were absolutely 0 issues just because of her muteness. Sure, when power went out, she couldn't PDA people, but there's many workarounds for it. And while I get that someone with no legs shouldn't work in security, someone that merely uses a walking cane could be one if they do a good enough job despite the cane. Basically, unless it's an extreme disability that will literally prevent you from doing work in a department, you should be given a chance in any department, in my opinion.

Honestly this whole thing sounds like a one-round antag gimmick rather than a full-on societal change. Honestly the best way to actually implement it would be to make a special secondary server for it and implement it there. But that would be a bit too huge of a hassle.

To clarify on that last part. The grocery store isn't that far away and I only needed to get a couple of things, but I did need to get them. So yes, that didn't take long, but I actually went into my car and drove over to the store in those 20 minutes.

The whole idea is to change that expectation of deadchat, and make dying less of a kick in the balls.

Spirits can roleplay numerous things. Getting to grips with that they died, the fact that there's an afterlife or even just "holy shit I can fly now". It would just fix up a lot of inconsistencies with some antag abilities and hey, we even get to not feel like complete shit because our RP got shut down after a death.

I don't exactly have problems with the current way enthralling works as I view it more as getting taken hostage than becoming antag. The whole vampire blood item thing sounds like a nice idea, but I'm afraid it may be a little bit too obvious? Either people will have to be a bit too aggressive with feeding it (like the grenades) or too passive (with food and drink) and make the only super viable vampires the bartender and the cook because they can easily disguise it. Creativity is good, just think it might make it hard to get people to drink it without being super obvious.

I made a topic a while back about improving cloning procedures, in which I brought up this, and after thinking it over, I guess I'll make a full suggestion out of it. Let me start with why I want to do this: Being dead sucks. There's a minimum wait time of 20 minutes before you can take part in the game again (which is one sixth of a minimum round, and that's before you get into the shuttle, get to your office, and get your gear before you can even attempt to do what you want.) and while you're dead? What, roleplay? The thing you boot up the game for? Nope, fuck you, your miner's boots didn't work or some antag set their sights on you and you had no say in it, so now you get to do nothing for 20 minutes. Being dead is boring and stupid and as a result dying ingame becomes stupid and annoying and infuriating. A way to fix this, in my opinion, is to seperate dead and observer OOC chat and add in an actual spirit roleplay chat. This way you're not excluded from the game entirely when you die, and gives more meaning to some actions certain antagonists can do (think a wizard entering the spirit realm for a while). Of course, a problem arises: There's going to be people observing and there's going to be actually dead people. I think observers should be able to see the spirit roleplay, but be unable to take part in it. This way, they can still opt for antagonist actions requiring a spirit, without disrupting any spirit's roleplay. And hey, while we're at it, this might even tie into some things the chaplain can do, outside of messing with cult, vampire and wizard. The goal of this idea is to make dying less stressful and annoying and give people something to do in deadchat other than bitch about how they died. That can still be done in the deadchat OOC, but alternatively they can actually roleplay as spirits, maybe even slightly haunt around their body.

I think personally it would be much easier to try and have a rule about it instated, or have some lingering pain messages after surgery or something so you know what's up. You need to keep in mind the whole realism vs fun thing, which is what I'm seeing here. Fun will always take precedence over realism. (This is why we don't have to unscrew every individual bolt as an engineer and this is why we don't have 500 surgical steps, for example.) I'm fine with having some arbitrary means of telling people that recovering from surgery isn't done in 5 seconds, but I don't think we should rewrite half of medical for it.

I don't think antags themselves are necessarily the problem - though extended is the best mode and cult can go die in a fire - but that being dead is such a bore and takes so long that it feels more like a punishment than a good mechanic. Maybe we should split the deadchat into observer and spirit chat, where spirits can actually try to RP and have a good time while dead while observer chat becomes the current deadchat. But as long as that isn't a thing yet I will still call for improved cloning because being dead sucks so much. It sucks so much that the act of being killed becomes bad by extension.

I did not say I did not care about antag or other player's stories. However, if that story includes removing me from the round and literally prevent me from playing the game for at least 20 minutes is when I draw the line. I get on to play, not wait in deadchat. Observing is boring and only serves to make me want to play the game instead. "Oh but 20 minutes isn't that much" It's a sixth of a minimum round. It's just as annoying as 90 second respawn timers in MOBAs. You can't contribute anything, you can only watch your respawn timer slooooooowly ticking down and you get bored out of your mind because you can't interact with literally anything. You can't even RP a spirit because deadchat is just a glorified OOC for dead and observing players at the moment. If being dead didn't make me literally want to quit the game and do something else it probably wouldn't be such a big deal but being forced to be unable to take part in a game you started up to play for any amount of time is so aggravating that dying in the first place just makes you angry.

I'm not trying to relax the standards specifically, just not make it happening hinge on one single role slot that is rarely played. And playing purely extended is not an option since only one in like 13 games that I'm on to play is actually extended without an event. And geeves, what I meant was like cultist conversion and things like that.

It should be seperate. I log in to RP and develop my character, not to facilitate the antag's story. The one thing, the literal one thing I hate most in life is being bored. And guess what happens when your character is dead? Yeah, it's super boring. The antags should not be required to murder to be considered "good". Which is what I'm hearing from a lot of people. Peacetags are great and should be the standard, not the exception imo.

It's one thing when a murder supposedly makes a story for the RP, but when people who log on to PLAY THE GAME get FORCIBLY removed from it without a say in it, that's not driving a story, that's a dumb mechanic. If I wanted to fight antags, I'd play security. It's the same reaosn I hate getting forced into an antag role because if I wanted to play that antag I'd have the box checked. And I actually like peacetags. I utterly hate the notion that combat is apparently required to make a good antag. It's not and the hate for peacetags needs to die instead. Cloning is a good thing to not have people forcibly removed from the round. Remember that rounds can take 2+ hours and you actually need to set time aside for it, and you can be in the mindset to play a certain character but OOPS some dickwaffle decided to play a murderbone shit changeling and now you can go fuck off for 1.5 hours and do jack shit.

Don't worry about ruined RP, that already happened the moment the antag decided they wanted to do a murder. The annoying part is that you either get literally removed from the round against your will for 20+ minutes and then have to play a character you didn't plan on playing, or you wait to get cloned but it never happens because of a single-slot role that nobody seems to want to play. The problem is players being removed from the round against their will and not even getting a remote chance of going back in with the character they want. (Because doing absolutely nothing while praying for someone to go a slot that is rarely played is a lot of fun isn't it)

Yeah. So, let me get out of the way first, combat in SS13 sucks and murder centric antagonists suck. What sucks even harder is when you die because of stupid things like that, and then oops nobody decided to play the rarely played psychiatrist at that moment so now your character has been taken out of the round with no (legal) way to get back in. You can argue "oh just play another character" but that's like saying "oh I just ripped up your favorite drawing just draw a new one". I picked that character to play and have a good time, and now the entire round is ruined because someone decided they wanted to be a douchebag as an antag. No, I won't pick another character because if I wanted to play those characters I'd have picked them over this one. And it would be one thing if there was no one playing medical at all (in which case, antags should take that into account and not go on a murder spree) but when there's like 6 people in medical and you can't be cloned because none of them is playing one specific role, that's just utterly dumb. Long story short, please update requirements for cloning so regular medical workers can do it without requiring a psychiatrist. I know it gives them something to do but what's the point if they're not played anyway. All that happens is that more fun gets ruined for players that are killed by bad antaggery. And let's not even start about what happens if the psychiatrist were to be involved in the murder.

What I gathered from when it happened, specifically related to Mira getting blown up, seemed like more of an unfortunate coincidence of mechanics. Apparently Mira walked away, and when that happened, the countdown for blowing up the APC was activated, and afterward Mira walked back. As far as I'm aware the machine overload cannot be canceled, and indeed with comms and such out of the question it would have been hard to provide RP in the first place, while the reasoning for blowing up the APC was fine. And while I personally didn't like the round myself, I do believe command was partly to blame for herding the crew into such a small space. That is all I realy have to say on the matter.

Alright, so. Myself and avery have spoken with the people involved, and we have found no OOC gripes with anyone involved. It's an IC issue, and it happened because Lin just happened to be that shift's warden. It looks like IC rivalries were interpreted as OOC gripes, which they weren't. If there are any questions about this verdict, please contact me by discord.

Right. Myself and Avery will be handling this. I'll talk to people involved and see if we can find a verdict about this.

Oh, I didn't mean new player input wasn't welcome, just that it wasn't the target audience of the thread. But by all means, share your input if you're new. My goal with this thread is to make sure the community right now is actually having the RP environment that they want instead of just going with it because 'that's how it is'. And I don't mind a shift in generally accepted characters, like what Sleepy said about getting more antagonizing towards others, but what I do mind is if that results in people getting shafted from having good roleplay because "muh character wouldn't talk to strangers". Or getting cheated out of learning a job because of it. I don't mind a generally grumpier crew manifest but that shouldn't go at the cost of alienating new characters that are trying to fit in.

Driec, the problem isn't the combat system, it's the fact that players try to use the combat system in the situation at all. If someone has a gun aimed at you, there's almost zero chance you would try to rush them down without them taunting you to do so, when you don't even have a weapon yourself. And jackboot, I personally don't believe a desire to win should be a good player mentality in a roleplay server. In fact, trying to win just makes everyone lose because you either mess up the round as an antag or mess up the antag's gimmick as regular player. Being stressed is believable, but being stressed should not really be an excuse to escalate poorly (I can't think of a situation where I've heard that excuse and ruled it as valid over that.)

While coalf is right in some regards, it's still a kick in the nuts to me because I was not having even half of those complaints. VERY maybe the "X job has nothing to do", but other than that, none of those complaints were really complaints I had, and now it feels like (but not necessarily is the case) a vocal minority got a culture switch off on this server and now most of the old players got driven out because they didn't fit in with the new culture, which is pretty stupid imo. I'm pretty sure we're in a bit of a player decline too, though I haven;t really looked into stats at all so that could just be my time of day speaking.

Well, at least I'm not the only one seeing it. I'm not going to tell people how to have fun, but in my opinion this new environment is less... Let's call it cohesive. I personaly see it as a bad shift, because I can't enjoy myself in it anymore. I just hope some other change comes along that maybe gets back some of the older players, or gets the current 'meta' to shift back to the way it was.

Right, hello everyone. TT here. I have a point to bring up, but I have to preface it with something. This mainly applies to players that have been around for longer, mostly since the Exodus. I won't mind if you have some input if you're new, but keep in mind that this is mostly directed at the older playerbase. Now, I'm sad to say, but I think the community has shifted for the worse since the Exodus. Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but I've asked a few people, and they've been seeing the same thing. Back then, I don't know if it was because of the smaller community or just because of a few laxer rules, but people were more engaging. A lot of cross-departmental friend circles existed, in every combination possible. If a new character was introduced, it usually only took one or two shifts for them to get accepted into one friend circle or another. People tried to actively talk with eachother, helped out if asked, were actually asked to help out, and generally helped to make the Exodus (and the starting days of the NSS Aurora 2) a very welcoming and cozy place. Characters were recognized, talked about when they weren't on shift, and if you dropped a name generally everyone knew who you were talking about. After a while, however, I can't exactly pinpoint when, this started to fade away. Nowadays it seems doing your job, preferably by yourself with no outside help, comes first and foremost before any type of character interaction. Sure, a scientist will say thank you to a miner or a cargo tech that brings them materials, but not much more than that. People seem a lot more self-centered than before. If you make a new character now, it can take weeks before you have one consistent on-station friend, let alone a circle of those. If you ask someone if they want help, they go "I'll be fine" and you're waved off in 90% of the cases, even if you're a trainee of their department. People don't know eachother anymore, and if you drop a name no one really knows who you're talking about unless they're on-shift or you're talking to their personal friend, or maybe if they were on last shift. It saddens me to see this change, really. My question is, has anyone else been seeing this change? I would love to go back to how it was before, with less job tunnelvision and more character interaction. And please, don't take this as offense if you're new, it's just an observation I've made. I just don't think the server has the same charm or personality it once had, but I don't know if it is because of a shifted playerbase, or the constant 'evolving' of our mechanics, or both. Please, let me know.