More alternative job titles

[VTCobaltblood]

Janitors can be Custodial Technicians (lightbulb screwing people, idea is to have both a custodial technician and a janitor present on board when possible), Scientists can be Hardware Engineers (this is a bad title for R&D and circuits specialization, I'd LOVE to change it to something else to avoid confusion with engineering) and Toxins Researchers (toxins&chemistry), Quartermasters can be Supply Managers (focused on overseeing cargo rather than doing cargo themselves, intended to be taken on nearly full cargo manifest), Librarians can be Curators (interactions with xenoarcheology), Journalists can be Newscaster Maintainers (again, bad title for people who like putting riddles in the newscaster), Merchants can be Material Shippers and Arms Dealers, and finally Assistants can now be Tourists.

If this gets approved, I would also like Hardware Engineers to spawn without a labcoat, but with a toolbelt, and Tourists to spawn with a camera.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5443 PR

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Alternate titles ideally come with a change in how that base job is played. It is possible to have too many alt titles and end up with clutter and white noise. Do you feel you can make each alt title distinct enough?

[VTCobaltblood]

That's what Fowl said to me, too. Except for Tourist, jobs listed have significantly different responsibilities than the base job, which is described in the main post.

[Bauser]

Concept: allow people to apply for custom alternative job titles the same way they apply for custom items, here on the forum. This way, if someone is inspired to play a role in a new way and is prepared to work to ensure it fits within the setting and still fulfills the responsibilities of the job, players will be able to introduce their own creative spins on any role.

[VTCobaltblood]

I don't think this is a good idea. The main gripe with having a lot of alternative titles is the manifest being confusing due to basically the same job being named a hundred different names. It would be much worse if we also introduced custom jobs - people can and will get confused and frustrated when searching for a detective only to discover he's actually on the manifest as a sleuth or something. The PR originally had more titles, and I removed most of them exactly because of this. Even then, having new job titles available for everyone could still be argued for with "people will get used to the new titles", but with titles available to only one person even that weak argument doesn't apply.

[Bauser]

Jobs are categorized on the manifest according to department, so your argument overstates the difficulty people will have when searching for someone to get a specific job done. Plus, it would be a necessity of a custom role that it set itself apart in some way; the functionality wouldn't just be there so people can choose their favorite synonyms, so the "detective/sleuth" scenario is precluded, as well.

[VTCobaltblood]

Department people aren't all doing one job. How would I know that, say, Hardware Engineer, a title I've only seen one time, is the one to pester for KAs in science? And why exactly can't other people become Hardware Engineers? It's not like a character would have an unique degree somehow. I don't see what custom jobs would bring to the game. Why aren't they available to everyone?

[LordFowl]

The only ones even possibly justifiable here are Hardware Engineer, the various merchant subclassses, and possibly curators. The janitor role is not complex enough to allow it to be divided into two separate responsibilities, Toxins Researcher is completely redundant to Phoron Researcher (Indeed, I am pretty sure Phoron Researchers used to be called Toxibs Researchers). Supply Manager is equally redundant to QM, has a bad name, and really again the QM role is not diverse enough to warrant stratification. Newscast Maintainer is just... no. If people want to have a silly riddle channel, they can do so without needing to occupy an even more useless job than typical journalists. Finally visitior and tourist accomplish the same role, so in effect we already have tourists.

[Coalf]

Having mained it many years ago I can confirm Phoron researcher used to be called Plasma researcher which used to be Toxin researcher.

[VTCobaltblood]

[mention]LordFowl[/mention]

Phoron exists in different states. There is solid phoron and gas phoron, and solid phoron is R&D. Moreover, the word "toxins" would also suggest chem grenades, given that we have no title for sci chemist. Perhaps a Weaponry Engineer would be a good title for this as well? Bombs, grenades, and also modular lasers. Also an immediately obvious title which won't be confused with Engineering. Bam.

Roboticist role isn't complex enough to justify having a biomechanical engineer and a mechatronic engineer, given there are hardly any situations where you have to install a prosthetic and do borg maintenance at the same time. So what? We still have two roboticist titles, and they work well in tandem, just as janitors and custodial technicians would. They have different skills and different things are expected from them, just like from janitors and custodial technicians.

Why is supply manager a bad name?

Acknowledged everything else.

[ben10083]

I don't like the idea of this level of specialisation when it comes to jobs, if we allow this, there will be numerous cases (especially in deadhour) of people having alt titles making them effectively useless due to the lack of people, or they simply don't do as much as a regular job since they are "specialised". Overall, I see no reason for more alt-titles. -1

[VTCobaltblood]

[mention]ben10083[/mention]

I have to disagree.

By this argument, you can basically remove any alt titles. Isn't having medical alt titles "too specialized"? Wouldn't a nurse become absolutely useless if they're the only medical staff on board? Isn't having 2 different roboticists "too specialized" if they could just pick Roboticist and do both of their alt-title jobs, instead of being useless on deadhour by not doing all of the things they're supposed to do? Isn't having 4 types of engineers "too specialized" - wouldn't a maintenance technician refuse to set up the engine if they're the only engineer on board? This could go on and on forever with all the alternative titles we currently have. And what job, exactly, couldn't an arms dealer or a tourist perform on deadhour?

Moreover, even more useless titles exist and aren't removed. Main example is the Chemist, who can be a Pharmacist and do... literally the same thing, because a chemist in medical wouldn't be a scientist. Same with Chef/Cook. Same with Gardener/Hydroponicist. I'm not sure if Cyborg/Robot/Android is a valid point to bring up, but it exists as well. We already have alternative titles that aren't that much of a difference except solely for character flavor, why not allow these ones? Custodial Technician, in particular, was requested by players, and it is by far more separated from Janitor than Pharmacist is from Chemist.

[Zaeperry99]

As it stands I'm undecided but leaning toward a +1, especially with a couple of these tweaked.

I like several of these. I think hardware engineer / electrical technician is a welcome change, as well as assistant/tourist (a nice flavor detail for the station at large that I've been wanting to see since tourism is my in-universe excuse for us having a pool, bar, etc and 'Visitor' is usually used by people visiting off-duty). There are a few problems with the others, though.

I'm not sure I understand the thought process of 'There are already asinine alt titles that nobody uses, let's add more asinine alt titles that (maybe) nobody will use'.

Despite what was said on the github (which was probably 100% more correct than what I'm about to say) IMO Most of the alt-titles in-game should provide one of two things. A very large backstory/education change i.e surgeon/virologist/MD who play essentially a different game, or a very small flavor difference i.e cook/chef who basically just present their food differently. I think Nurses are kind of worthless with Interns being re-added, and I think 'Engine Technicians' are very useless considering literally everyone in engineering can set up the engine.

The difference between a custodial technician and janitor is probably a week-long training course - it'd be better just to rename Janitors as a whole to Custodial Technician and put the entire thing in their sphere of influence. The difference between a Quartermaster and Supply Manager would be whether or not you have employees under you, which a QM usually does. As such, it'd probably be better just to rename them to Supply Managers (Though I can imagine we'd receive hellfire from cargo mains for some reason.)

I really like 'Curator/Librarian' and think it could actually be pretty great especially given some additional coding love and could make the role as a whole a bit more played, so I'm in full support of that.

As for the Arms Dealer, I'm 50/50 on this. It's mostly a matter of 'Why would Nanotrasen let somebody board who's only job is to either A: Rip off the most funded department to buy even more guns they shouldn't need or B: Sell illegal weapons to Civilians. At the very least, a title along the lines of 'Sec toys dealer' or something of the sort would sound better.

[VTCobaltblood]

[mention]Zaeperry99[/mention]

I'll address your concerns one-by-one.

 

I'm not sure I understand the thought process of 'There are already asinine alt titles that nobody uses, let's add more asinine alt titles that (maybe) nobody will use'.

I don't want you to think that that's my thought proccess when making this PR. Before I made this thread, my PR with titles was cluttered with titles that were absolutely useless, like a Sleuth, alternative title to Detective - I have removed these because I realized how stupid this is. Rather, this was a supporting argument against Ben's point - there are already things way worse than this allowed, so why reject something that has more thought put into it?

 

The difference between a custodial technician and janitor is probably a week-long training course - it'd be better just to rename Janitors as a whole to Custodial Technician and put the entire thing in their sphere of influence.

I don't really think so. Rather, a custodial technician specializes in minor technical repairs, and a janitor specializes in cleaning up messes. In theoretical large-scale janitorial situations (I know how stupid this sounds but JERT exists), a custodial technician would screw in lightbulbs, while the janitor is doing the clean-up. A custodial technician would want an advanced light replacer, a janitor would want a chem sprayer. Moreover, it's something of a flavor thing as well - I can imagine a 17 year old janitor saving money for college, whereas a custodial technician would have professional work experience in the custodial field.

 

The difference between a Quartermaster and Supply Manager would be whether or not you have employees under you, which a QM usually does. As such, it'd probably be better just to rename them to Supply Managers (Though I can imagine we'd receive hellfire from cargo mains for some reason.)

Agreed. I'm not the one to make such a radical decision, however, so I'd prefer having a QM as basically a senior cargo technician, and a SM as just a manager, for now.

 

As for the Arms Dealer, I'm 50/50 on this. It's mostly a matter of 'Why would Nanotrasen let somebody board who's only job is to either A: Rip off the most funded department to buy even more guns they shouldn't need or B: Sell illegal weapons to Civilians. At the very least, a title along the lines of 'Sec toys dealer' or something of the sort would sound better.

That's exactly why merchants need to declare themselves as Arms Dealers if they're selling guns, rather than just merchants - for the security department to be on watch for potential unlawful weaponry purchases by civilians. It's not like merchants can't sell guns right now - with this change, security would be just aware that an arms dealer is an arms dealer, and act accordingly.

[Doxxmedearly]

Janitors are already expected to replace lights and do extremely minor repairs. I don't see why they would need an alt-title for it. If anything, renaming them to Custodial Technicians makes more sense than an alt-title. But I suppose you could just add the alt-title using the same logic as Cook/Chef: Same duties, but one implies a higher degree of experience.

If you want a science alt-title for someone who works with chemicals, then something simple like "Chemical Scientist/researcher" seems fitting. I think this is a pretty decent idea.

Curator is good. Adding flavor to librarian is always welcome.

Supply Manager... I dunno. It doesn't really imply anything different than Quartermaster. I don't think this adds any flavor, even minor like chef/cook.

Newscaster maintainer is just odd, awkward-sounding, and pretty unnecessary, even as flavor. I don't see a reason for this title at all.

I'm with Zae on the "Arms Dealer" thing. It doesn't sound like anything NT would allow going to a civilian station. "Supplier" might be a decent flavor-alt for merchants, if you want to RP an arms dealer or contraband seller but make it sound legit.

Tourist... Weird. But I'm not particularly against it as an alt-title. I still feel "Visitor" is a better word that can encompass tourists.

I'd honestly like to see maintenance tech be renamed to (Or an additional alt title for engineers) "Structural Engineer." But that may be too specialized.

That's my .02cr

[VTCobaltblood]

[mention]Doxxmedearly[/mention]

Janitors are already expected to replace lights and do extremely minor repairs. I don't see why they would need an alt-title for it.

They are, and I don't really like it, honestly. Therefore, I propose an alt title that would focus on that.

 

I'm with Zae on the "Arms Dealer" thing. It doesn't sound like anything NT would allow going to a civilian station. "Supplier" might be a decent flavor-alt for merchants, if you want to RP an arms dealer or contraband seller but make it sound legit.

Nonetheless, a civilian station has a lot of weaponry in the armory, scientists making bombs, scientists making lasers, scientists printing out illegal weapons (which are allowed to exist - security wouldn't apprehend you for merely printing guns), and emitters in storage. I don't think an Arms Dealer is too outlandish, as long as they specifically declare themselves as Arms Dealers for security to be alert.

[BurgerBB]

I looked this over and I'll specifically address each title. A lot of these remind me of bad euphemisms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc.

I feel that the manifest should accurately, but not redudedently, explain your purpose here. Titles that describe the same occupation but in a different phrase is a redundant euphemism.

We don't need a tourist title. Visitor is fine enough.

Supply Manager is redundant.

Custodial Technician is redundant.

Newscaster Maintainer is redundant.

Curator is fine.

Merchant alt titles are good.

Science alt titles are good.

[VTCobaltblood]

Custodial Technician isn't quite the same occupation as I've stated in the thread numerous times. As for others, eh, I guess, sure. Kinda lost fervor to argue for these.

[Gem]

old/stale thread.

locking and archiving.