[2 dismissals; Bin 4/MAY/2019] Remove Protohumans

[Snakebittenn]

It has been too long that protohumans have been in Cargo for how much they don't make sense and how stupid cheap they are.
For one, lore wise, how do they work? They don't. Protohumans wre historically just making a monkey into a human, and there's no real explanation on how they're done now. Clones MIF without a consciousness to place inside them. Nobody but Jargon can flash grow clones like that. Where are they being made? Jargon? Why do they cost only a few thousand credits? Surely if they're imported, or even if they're, yknow, an entire fucking human body, they'd be quite a bit.
Next, the edge. People throw them down disposals for no reason but fun and 'to show what happens', crush them, light them on fire, literally advocate for harvesting their organs and sewing them onto people who lost them, and generally just act super fucking edgy about what is a living human just because it's brain dead. Would you do that to a vegetative hospital patient?
Lastly, they make certain things completely less impactful. Having a biological limb sewn onto you after an injury is much less impactful and meaningful than a metal one. I have already seen on the relay many times people talking about limb loss and solving it with 'xd just get a protohuman'.
Also, if someone can't be cloned regularly without the use of a meme monkey man, they shouldn't be cloned. Especially with the current meta of 'put the brain in a protohuman and do even dumber plastic surgery for consequence-free gib cloning'.

 If people want their xd le unethical experiments they could atleast be interesting enough to get a crewmember instead of a consequence-free monkey man.

Edited April 27, 2019 by LordFowl

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Sure.

[Zundy]

Sure.

[VTCobaltblood]

Unethical experiments are impossible to get a crewmember for, I doubt that anyone would like to volunteer to get their limbs gibbed. And monkeys can't get a gibbed hand. Also, you can't put monkeys in a body scanner, which is pretty much the main advantage of protohumans.

[Tailson]

Let's also remember that protohumans are a fantastic way to train new medical players in surgery and such.

Yes, it can be difficult to reconcile this in lore, but I think working on that is many times better than just flat out removing them, because they are useful.

[Arrow768]

I have to vote for dismissal due to the reasons posted by Tailson and VTC.
In this case the benefits they offer to the game outweigh the lore concerns raised and lore should probably be adapted to integrate them if that is not the case at the moment.

Of course the moralities of quite a few things like that are very questionable, and you are free to protest that ICly.
But questionable moralities do not warrant the removal of something from the game and rather provide a interesting aspect to the game.

[Snakebittenn]

Except that monkeys can be used for the same exact stuff. It would be a bug that monkey hands cannot be gibbed, and if their organs need to be inspected for damage, they can be extracted by surgery and autopsied. It would be pretty easy to add a medical trainer holodeck level or something instead of this. 

[Zundy]

They're brain dead clones in lore since they're souless.

[Resilynn]

Monkeys cannot be used for the exact same things. You cannot put a monkey in a full body scanner. I use protohumans for IB training and organ damage training. 

It wasn’t very hard for genetics to make us protohumans when we needed them before, and it was pretty cool when we had that.  Science and medical used to work together a lot more often.  The ability to easily make a genetics console was removed and protohumans were sent to cargo.  A little less awesome but okay.

 

I have never seen someone play a brain transplant off as consequence free.  Everyone I’ve done it to has had a huge existential crisis over it, the canon ones were given multiple week arcs, at least.  This is a high RP server, we don’t need mechanics to reenforce the risk and shock and trauma of something like this.

Moreover the mechanics ARE different.  Protohumans organs will be rejected and the method to cure organ rejection is not on the wiki, it’s a passed down medical trick.  Brain transplants are incredibly time sensitive and end with the brain rotting about half the time we try them.  Failed protohuman limb cases have killed people on extended rounds (the sukhoi IR case about a year ago) and are therefore more risky than robotic prosthetics.  Because they ROT.

Overall surgeries that involve protohumans are more expensive and more risky.  They’re not consequence free like you’re saying.  And I’ve seen some awesome RP come out of their use, consistently.  Ordering protohumans has us interacting with other departments, which is always a plus, even if the surly idgaf  if it’s a life on the line it’s gonna be 30 minutes I forgot to press the button cargo techs are a little less fun to play with than science was.

As for the lore question, that’s your job, but I suggest, idunno, the upsilon ships them because they have a genetics department.

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Resilynn

[Zundy]

Different companies produce them as per their description in cargo. They are brain dead clones created for experimentation. When genetics was removed you couldn't get protocreatures so they were added to cargo. There was much rejoicing. I've had a chat with the secret cabal of science mains who don't want this gone but won't post because they feel they won't be listened too. I don't mind either way tbh. Also ignore the emojis I literally can't figure out how to delete them on my phone. ????

[LordFowl]

Voting for dismissal. Protohumans provide a tangible positive gameplay impact. Your perceived notions of their negative impact arise from your failure to understand the mechanisms at work behind protohumans, experimentation, and medical transplants.

If you have an issue with their lore, reconcile that with loredevs.

If you have an issue with people throwing protohumans down disposals or similar behavior, reconcile that with admins/CCIA.

 

[Soultheif96]

Additionally to Lordfowl’s statements, please do consult with the CCIA and Admins about throwing protohumans down disposals. We will be more than pleased to do something about it in a form of a policy or otherwise.