[Resolved] Player Complaint - Lin Dyslioth, MissNatcula

[KingOfThePing]

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

I suggest every one stop posting in general to this. It was made as announcements opinions are not really contributing to complaint cases and otherwise.

You are honestly delusional if you think an announcement that, I quote, said: "Only post if involved or have something to contribute." will save you from all the people who clearly have a problem with your character. You are holding up mirrors and apply double standards in your post above and I will explain in thorough detail why that is, becasue this is my contribution to this complaint as an observer and the one person who said in your application that I will +1 you, but only if you make a new character.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

When did this complaint turn from a complaint about me valid hunting to psychoanalysing my character from every single angle and how she isn't fit for command.

The mental state of people working in security (even more so if they lead a security force) is very important. This has been explained a plethora of times to you already why that is, so I will leave it as that.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

How about instead of saying how specifically Lin Dyslioth; in your opinions, is not fit for command but as a whole there are a lot of characters in command positions; in my own opinion, not fit for command. Stop countering me by saying 'thats not an excuse' and address the damn issue as a whole. Its very double standard, one way mirror to say my character is not fit for command, try to get my character removed, but not also do the same to all the other characters; some also HOS', who are also not fit for their command role; again in your own opinions.

This entire paragraph is basically a "no u". You explain your character being unfit with "oh, but there are so many others, that are, too!" and I would honestly be interested in who you mean. There are not many regularly played HoS characters currently. One is yours, another one is Sophie Hawkins, formerly Rifler, very good at what they do, then Jesse Armstrong, also, not perfect but I never had a problem with them during a round. Then Joseph Lock comes to mind, an absolutely stellar HoS, in my opinion and he isn't even playing that long on the server. So who is that bad HoS you are talking about? I can honestly not think of any that are currently being played regularly. Also, you seem to try to make our replies and thoughts less impactful by saying "again in your own opinions" and just generally saying that these are just our opinions and therefore they are not worth anything? Of course we are explaining our opinions here, someone who has a problem with something then that's their opinion, I dont know where you are trying to ultimately go with this argumentation.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

I could go on here and detail several displays of horrible HOS behaviour I've witnessed in the last month alone that came from other HOS' but I'm not here to bash people. I'm here to defend myself but I'm not going to sit here and take this shit if you guys can't pull your own heads out of the dirt and realise getting rid of me ain't going to fix what you seem to have a problem with.

Please, I beg you, please "detail several displays of horrible HOS behaviour". You say you are here to defend yourself and use that very argument to defend yourself maybe you should start explaining what you mean, since you use it as one of your prime arguments against everyone in this thread. Instead you repreatedly get extremely defensive claiming to "not post anything else here" and "only the admin's opinion matters", which is not how this works. You tell us to "pull [our] own heads out of the dirt" but instead you yourself bury yours in the sand, not wanting to have any of it, without actually adressing the problems, thoughts and, behold, opinions of others. Because they are apparently worthless, since we have no red colour on the forums/discord/ingame/etc.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

If I broke the rules, stepped out bounds SO much I deserve to have my character removed why has NO ONE made an IR?

I wish someone had, but making IRs is a hassle. Many, many people refrain from doing it because of the work and commitment tied to it, even as the one reporting something.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

Why has NO ONE ahelp'd had an admin address this?

I would be very suprised if this is true.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

Just sat there as ghosts, discord, whatever and spit on how horrible I am then when some one finally makes a loose complaint you all hop on in like a firing squad.

Again, don't badmouth a proper complaint by saying it is just "a loose complaint". Also, us "hop[ping] on in like a firing squad" should tell you a lot, but you dismiss it, as usual. Maybe all these people are glad someone finally did have both time and commitment to start a complaint about the thing that has been bugging them for so long.

 

5 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

Maybe I'd be like 'oh hey my bad' but from my point of view its hard to see how my behaviour has been to that level of scummy that my character deserves a termination from her position.

No, you wouldn't. You would react the exact same way you did here, because that's how you react to any kind of criticism, always. You would never, ever come so far to see that your character is unfit or did something wrong. You showed a great deal of inability to see criticism as it is: Criticism on your character, not your person. You are apparently incapable of drawing a line between OOC and IC and you've shown this a great amount of times, in this complaint alone.

[MissNatcula]

Again. Is this actual evidence or solid contribution to my complaint or you quoting what I say and trying to counter it all. Lol. Which is not either of those things.

[KingOfThePing]

Report me, then, and let your precious admins decide that.

[MattAtlas]

8 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

If I broke the rules, stepped out bounds SO much I deserve to have my character removed why has NO ONE made an IR? Why has NO ONE ahelp'd had an admin address this?

Many people would rather shut up and suffer rather than go through the process of dealing with you, if this is your attitude.

Maybe it's not everyone that's wrong, but rather you.

[ShesTrying]

I think that this complaint in general has a lot to say about Nat a player, and a contributor to things from an OOC standpoint. I've kept largely quiet on all of this because I was afraid that it would devolve into just this-- a back and forth. I am, however, glad this complaint was made, because it gives a proper forum for those who haven't had time to make a proper complaint to come forward and air our experiences with you and your behavior both IC and OOC.

 

From an IC standpoint: I find Lin can be extremely two-sided. On one hand, when the round is going well, and everything is smooth, she is a kind, understanding, and an overall quality HOS. However, when things start to go awry, or the antags and people around them don't do what she believes they should, an almost 180 spin happens. Lin goes from an understanding HOS who can be reasoned with to a commanding, controlling, well, Commander. At times, it feels like you can be playing two characters at once, and let me state: neither of those characters are explicitly bad. I feel like you may be trying to play too many people with only one main- and I think that if you made another HOS with more of the qualities of angry-Lin, that you would find that normal-Lin mellows out a lot. It's good to have that diversity. On the validhuntry ways, I agree, to an extent. When normal-Lin does become angry-Lin, she can be... a lot. She seems to get stuck in this frustrated, emotional state and allows no reconciliation or further RP, only detain-imprison-or-kill. I'd take into consideration that if Lin does suffer from anger, the implant may play a larger role at this point, and you could even rp out that change for some really interesting interactions, from angry and emotional to cool and calculating. I aswell, honestly, don't think that Lin is fit for a command position. As the people above have stated, she's just too emotional. Too hot headed. She made a great warden, and I think that she is still a good character. Not being fit for command isn't a bad thing. Plenty of characters are not, and that doesn't say anything about the player themselves, so long as they can remove themselves from their character.

 

From an OOC standpoint: In this complaint alone, Nat, I'm sorry, but you're catty. You're taking actual, constructive criticism from people who want to see you improve and twisting and turning it so that all you see is people attacking you. Even in your defense of yourself, you say for people to provide proof, and then two sentences later you go on about how "plenty of other HOS's are bad" without providing any backup of your own. I think it might be best if you took a step back and realized that nobody here dislikes you -- I can only speak for myself, however I think you're a great roleplayer, when you want to be. That's the key here. I've seen you get frustrated, and that's okay, but when you get frustrated ooc it shows ic. If you need to take a break, take a break. That's nothing to be upset about, but you've shown time and time again that you can't separate your characters from yourself, and that's a very important thing to do. 

 

Past this complaint, you've shown an inability to look at things objectively. You see things as a slam against you, when, most of the time, they aren't. Your character, isn't you. Your character, is allowed to have flaws. I think trying to make a flawless character is what you're trying to do and that's where a lot of your frustration comes from-- because everyone around you isn't seeing Lin for what you want them to see her as. I've seen you say a lot of "if you took the time to get to know her" but the bottom line is, people shouldn't have to get to know your character. People are allowed to have first impressions. People are allowed to only know Lin on a surface level, and people are allowed to dislike your character. It seems like, sometimes, you think you're entitled to people getting to know your character when a lot of the time people just won't. That's not how real life works, and nobody is obligated to spend time with someone they don't like, be it in game or out. If a character meets Lin, decides they don't like her, and moves on, it's not up to that character's player to change their opinion of her. It's up to Lin. Workplace politics suck, but they're there, IC and OOC.

 

In the end, the world we live in isn't a perfect place where nobody gets upset. People will be bugged by you, and you will be bugged by people. This complaint isn't a personal attack against you, it's people pointing out ways in which you may improve. You have a command role, and with that you need to understand that progressing rp and allowing a bit of leeway is really important. I know you and I especially have had our differences, but I urge you to take the things said in this complaint to heart, instead of brushing them off with an lol as you have been. 

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Nantei]

10 hours ago, MissNatcula said:

If I broke the rules, stepped out bounds SO much I deserve to have my character removed why has NO ONE made an IR? Why has NO ONE ahelp'd had an admin address this? Its hard to take you guys seriously when you clearly have done neither. Just sat there as ghosts, discord, whatever and spit on how horrible I am then when some one finally makes a loose complaint you all hop on in like a firing squad. If you have actual proof that was undeniably incriminating of me doing this stuff, sure. Maybe I'd be like 'oh hey my bad' but from my point of view its hard to see how my behaviour has been to that level of scummy that my character deserves a termination from her position.

Many things that would validate an IR never have an IR filed. Phi once almost filed four separate IR's in a week, that were all cancelled for various reasons such as: Key witnesses refusing to cooperate, the action itself being made non-canon (I had two manslaughter/gross neglect IR's surrounding Thea's death until they asked to void), or simply not wanting to put forth the effort or get someone in trouble. There's numerous reasons, and player complaints are probably the lowest barrier of entry. Any sort of ahelp about you would be rather fruitless inside the round itself, it would only help establish a pattern, which frankly isn't helpful to me if I am not purposely going out of my way to try and get you in trouble; and I am not.

I will try and say this as kindly as possible: You do not strike me as someone who responds well to criticism, and that makes it very hard to approach you regarding these issues. That is probably why these complaints appear to come out of thin air to you. People are afraid to approach you, and whether that is justified or not, it's still a problem. It genuinely causes me pain to think about taking a character away from you, or anyone else for that matter, so I want you to understand I am being totally sincere when I say: I only want you to improve.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Nantei

[Resilynn]

On the note of establishing a pattern, I have seen Lin do the following recently (within one month)-

 

-Deny a telescientist’s request to come map her department on this research station despite the majority command vote to give this scientist the opportunity to do his project with supervision.  No hos should ignore a command vote, it carries the weight of captains orders.  You should say yes to gimmicks and projects when able, we are here to facilitate a good round.

-Bash other members of command, unprompted, on the security radio.

-Refuse to make charges on her ic friends.

 

IRs are hard to file. They take awhile to write, they take a long time to process, and antag involvement gets them tossed out. On top of that, they’re an RP tool. Some characters just would not file an IR. Some, like AIs and borgs, can’t file IRs.    You’re an hos so the probability of an incident having something to do with an antag is VERY high. IRs are not meant to be a lesser player complaint, if I’m understanding fully what you’re saying here, natcula. Apologies if I misunderstand, but I felt it was worth clarifying. 

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hello, I will be taking this complaint, along with @DRagO. Please allow me some time to read through everything and begin working to resolve this.

I ask that everyone remains civil and we remain respectful to one another. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by ReadThisNamePlz

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hello, we've come to our decision. @MissNatcula

After some thought, Drago and I have both decided that we will be job banning you from Head of Security, We are job banning you because, there is a lack of ability currewntly to lead the security department as a team leader, this comes from a ooc problem aswell as how you play Lin. You do not work with command or you're own team and shut down gimmicks that do not involve you as you are unable to handle the situation properly, nor can you're team due to you not cordinating with them and willing to be a team player. Playing as a officer or even a warden will allow you more time to take a step back and understand what working under others again in this role is about, we also encourge you to play other command roles, CE, HoP and even IAA are all great learning roles as it forces you to deal with others on a regular basis, as does a role like captain. We both believe that you need to play other command roles to better your command play, and once you show your command play has improved, you will be unbanned from HoS. You're going to be allowed to play as a Security officer, as Drago and I both want you to learn how to play as a team member, and how to work with your fellow officers. 

I hope this does not discourage you from playing Security, but instead allows you to grow past these faults that have been presented in this complaint. I also encourage you to be more open to feedback, and not take everything as a personal attack towards you or your characters. 

If you have concerns, you may make them clear here in the complaint. I will be locking and archiving this by tomorrow, and the job ban is being applied today. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by ReadThisNamePlz
Added a more indepth reason for the job ban. Apologies!

[MissNatcula]

You realise Lin came from warden and before that CSI. So yeah that effect the character as a whole. So I will be forced to no longer play her. But that's fine. Saw this coming anyways. I literally get shit talks daily on your server in ooc, looc, discords and you as admins fail to constantly do anything against these players. I already had one player say they left cause it's toxic and depressing to read ooc.

 

I constantly say how I feel ganged up on and it's the reason I'm a bitch. Yeah. I'll admit it. When you constantly have this looming over you it gets tiring and makes you that way. I literally didn't play for one night and people talked about my supposive reign of terror ending yet I got messages from so many people who did not post here saying they would be sad if I left, that this thread was bullshit. But I told them not to get involved or they themselves didn't want to get involved. But it's ultimately your desiccation. I'll probably think about leaving and just keep in contact with the few who weren't complete toxic assholes. I honestly already tested a new character weeks ago to see if people and characters treated me differently and they did. As soon as it was revealed as me? Suddenly specific people stopped talking to that character. Surprise surprise.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

51 minutes ago, MissNatcula said:

You realise Lin came from warden and before that CSI. So yeah that effect the character as a whole. So I will be forced to no longer play her. But that's fine. Saw this coming anyways. I literally get shit talks daily on your server in ooc, looc, discords and you as admins fail to constantly do anything against these players. I already had one player say they left cause it's toxic and depressing to read ooc.

 

I constantly say how I feel ganged up on and it's the reason I'm a bitch. Yeah. I'll admit it. When you constantly have this looming over you it gets tiring and makes you that way. I literally didn't play for one night and people talked about my supposive reign of terror ending yet I got messages from so many people who did not post here saying they would be sad if I left, that this thread was bullshit. But I told them not to get involved or they themselves didn't want to get involved. But it's ultimately your desiccation. I'll probably think about leaving and just keep in contact with the few who weren't complete toxic assholes. I honestly already tested a new character weeks ago to see if people and characters treated me differently and they did. As soon as it was revealed as me? Suddenly specific people stopped talking to that character. Surprise surprise.

I apologize that you feel like we are ganging up on you. You mention that the staff have done nothing to defend you. 

We can only help if you report it, as I have told you in the past. I've never seen a ticket from you complaining about the abuse you suffer. 
Regardless, that's off topic. We've posted our ruling, if you do not agree with it, I encourage you to make a staff complaint. You're not banned from command roles, just HoS. We have posted our reasoning and I hope that you can understand where we are coming from.

[MattAtlas]

@ReadThisNamePlz please lock this before people start going off on tangents