Alberyk's Tajara Lore Writer Application

Alberyk · October 1, 2019

Ckey/BYOND Username: Alberyk

Position Being Applied For: Tajaran lore writer/maintainer

Past Experiences/Knowledge:

I have been working as a tajara lore deputy for more than one year. I have a lot of experience with the lore team, writing and several areas related to the development of our server, like coding and the wiki.

Examples of Past Work:

The pages for the three tajaran factions:

Spoiler

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=People's_Republic_of_Adhomai
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Democratic_People's_Republic_of_Adhomai
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=New_Kingdom_of_Adhomai

Tajaran culture and society:

Spoiler

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Tajaran_Cuisine
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Tajaran_Emigration
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Notable_Tajara#Crown_Heir_Shumaila_Azunja
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Crevus (Crevus was created by marlon, but I rewrote it)
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Guide_to_Citizenship#People.27s_Republic_of_Adhomai
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Adhomai#Binajr-nab.27at_.28Earthen-Root.29
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=PRA_Orbital_Fleet_Structure#Republican_Defensive_Robots

Most of the tajaran education pages:

Spoiler

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=The_Trizar_State_Medical_Academy
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=The_Kaltir_Law_Academy
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=The_Shungsta_University_of_Agrarian_Sciences
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=The_Shastar_Technical_University

Zhan nomads:

Spoiler

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Tajaran_Ethnicities#Rhazar.27Hrujmagh
https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Notable_Tajara#King_of_the_Mountains_Rustam_Harmaliik

Some prs related to the tajara:

Spoiler

Additional Comments: link to the essay: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LiJoG2IGbA57JmUmu3OSh4lUA4b2Ds4V8pI65kezDW4/edit?usp=sharing
I have decided to write about Hro'zamal, as this was a barely explored area of the tajaran lore. However, I also had another essay that covered my plans for the future of the tajaran species, and due to time constraints in relation to the current arc, I can not really release that one for public review due to spoilers.

JamOfBoy · October 1, 2019

In my opinion, Alberyk both plays and - as demonstrated in their essay - writes tajara lore extremely well. They are an agreeable person to work with on the lore team, if not somewhat distant. I would like to see them become full-fledged writer for the species.

I have a question, however.
As it stands, the wiki has twenty five or so pages listed in the tajara navbox. What is your opinion regarding the amount of pages relating to tajara? Would you consider compiling or condensing some?

Alberyk · October 1, 2019

41 minutes ago, JamOfBoy said:

I have a question, however.
As it stands, the wiki has twenty five or so pages listed in the tajara navbox. What is your opinion regarding the amount of pages relating to tajara? Would you consider compiling or condensing some?

While I find the girth meme funny. I believe that we can condense some of those pages into others. Now that we got a page for each faction, I plan to move stuff like military, cuisine and fashion to those pages, since they are already divided between the nka, ala and pra.

Lady Fowl · October 3, 2019

I thought alb already was the lore writer for Tajara tbh

+support

Faris · October 6, 2019

Alberyk is an individual I do not sing the praises of as much as I really should. I'll keep it concise, within context of this application and the applied position.

Active, communicative and caring member of the community, and particularly as staff.
Has a no nonsense attitude when it comes to things. So I have zero concerns when it comes to whitelist quality.
Has already put a lot of investment towards the species as cited above, be it lore wise or development.

My only gripe was the astonishing volume written up, while I delight in reading other peoples work, it has gotten to a point where it needs to be condensed. Though you have already addressed this and I am happy with your response. Additionally, loved your essay as it touches up on a forgotten aspect of the Tajara lore and has given me a character concept to think about.

You have my full support and I'm frankly excited.

Coalf · October 6, 2019

Alberyk can be fairly hard to communicate it, I appropriate a large part of that to the sheer scope of responsibilities that lay on his shoulders and so whenever he views something as "minor" or "unimportant", he tends to get dismissive which can come off as uncaring and insulting.
Yet this dismissivness gives a sign that he actually does care quite a lot about Tajara lore and server, but he chooses to show it by simply shutting down arguments that could spiral out into drama with a no-nonsense attitude.
Further, he remember a lot and while I personally believe he sometimes impacts themes for the sake of things being fun or station-integral I ultimately cannot say that's a negative thing, in the end the lore serves to service the game and server and making a fuckton of lore that cannot be linked back to the station is completely pointless.

He has an intensive backlog of work, every aspect of Tajara lore he has introduced has been welcomed by the Tajara community as positive, his characters often link back and use lore in a manner that is engaging and whenever me or mofo introduced a part of lore he's made sure to shape his vision around it.
To summarize, while his no-nonsense attitude can get annoying, I've never found it egregious enough to complain in any major way or for it to impact me or my work. Alberyk has the drive, the skill and the know-how to drive Tajara lore forward in the right direction and he's been a big part of tajara lore development for a major time.

October 18, 2019

I will reply to this tonight.

October 18, 2019

Nvm i got free time at work. Ill lay out what i see in tajara i want to have your takes in.

-Tajara are writ like an invasive species. They reject integration and they are regulated into ghettos suffering high rates of crime and violence. It is difficult to play a tajara in a high ranking job without them being former nobility. This is meant to be like they are proud of their culture but it also reads like tbey are genetically incapable of integrating. In almost all mediums their presence is predicated on being an invasive presence. This ties into a later point about them being written as incompetent. What are you going to do with tajara's stereotypes related to these issues?

-Tajara are incompetent at every level of managing themselves. The only place that wasnt crippled by administrative issuesnwas crevus but now its also controlled by a criminal oligarchy like everywhere else on adhomai. This will be my most contested point and I guess i do have a stake in it since i wrote it and it was accepted. But now there is no definitive location on adhomai that functions outside the monolith. The dpra and pra both still embrace the caste system as you said, which is why you wrote in the caste system back to crevus. and crevus having an egalitarian culture and government made certain elements very frustrated and there were hot takes about how the pra would shell the city for being so liberal. Why did you make this change and cite a rejection of the caste system as a reason, and strip democracy out of the city to have powerful mafias control it? Mafias kill people, so playing a former mobster makes your char a killer or have worked for killers instead of a group of hooligans who got tired of being bouncers and pickpockets.

-Tajara have no tradition or culture to themselves, they're conservatives copy/pasted from eastern europe. So if you play an angry polish man bitching about gays and degenerates you can neatly fit into any faction. There are no distinctions except political. What do you think makes tajara wholly distinct? What philosophies are in conflict between tajara groups and archetypes that are not related to the model of government?

-All tajara consular officers are the same. All of them that i and others have seen tend to be gag characters that want you to report gays. Do you want this to be their whole thing? What philosophy or culture otherwise can these characters latch onto? This is from the systemic issues above and below in this list.

-tajara in their development history (that even i was a part of) are written to make stereotypical characters that are reactionary to trends of the time (usually furries making the devs mad) and these stereotypes (further eastern European conservatism) are enforced by a small group of very loud people whos hot takes tended to be about bringing back concentration camps, so tajara are sort of once again swinging to becoming a set of "ha, look at these fucking libtards" for a set of particular people to enjoy at an ooc level at the expense of anything pointing to tajara as more than the stereotypes that define them. What do you think about this?

-why does tajara lore reject all aspects of anti-authoritarianism/punk? The only competently ran faction that everyone finds natural and good are monarchists and everyone is either a nobleman or a dirt farmer. There is no longer a faction big or small with a freverent love of their own community, and outlets for characters that dont come from a monolithic set of authoritarianism or criminal backgrounds. Its all meant to be "heh, fuckin' commies" and thats the species. How will you address this?

(What i mean by punk is a aet of philosophies that contrast the status quo. Thakh to skakh, autakh to skakh, ouerea to moghes, mars to sol)

Edited October 18, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

October 18, 2019

Also this isnt a -1. You are great. These issues are with the species' direction systemically, not as you individually. You have crazy work ethic and stuff.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

October 18, 2019

35 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-Tajara are writ like an invasive species. They reject integration and they are regulated into ghettos suffering high rates of crime and violence. It is difficult to play a tajara in a high ranking job without them being former nobility. This is meant to be like they are proud of their culture but it also reads like tbey are genetically incapable of integrating. In almost all mediums their presence is predicated on being an invasive presence. This ties into a later point about them being written as incompetent. What are you going to do with tajara's stereotypes related to these issues?

-Tajara have no tradition or culture to themselves, they're conservatives copy/pasted from eastern europe. So if you play an angry polish man bitching about gays and degenerates you can neatly fit into any faction. There are no distinctions except political. What do you think makes tajara wholly distinct? What philosophies are in conflict between tajara groups and archetypes that are not related to the model of government?

-All tajara consular officers are the same. All of them that i and others have seen tend to be gag characters that want you to report gays. Do you want this to be their whole thing? What philosophy or culture otherwise can these characters latch onto? This is from the systemic issues above and below in this list.

I’ll echo these questions as well...

Tajara feel more like the angry, conservative uncle that no one wants to sit next to at family gatherings

I’ve wanted to apply for a taj whitelist for a long time, but the way the lore presents itself and how it is portrayed on station is less than enticing. The only notable source of controversial content that piques heads while in-round is “will not help gays,” and while that is fine for character development, I don’t see how it’s supposed to open the floodgates for potential tajara players.

I remember the NKA event a few months ago and it was exciting, but lately I feel like the incorporation of lore on-station has been stunted with “shock factor dialogue.”

How do you plan to extend the lore to players who do not want to align their characters with these specific mindsets?

Coalf · October 18, 2019

8 minutes ago, BoxWulf said:

I’ll echo these questions as well...

Tajara feel more like the angry, conservative uncle that no one wants to sit next to at family gatherings

I’ve wanted to apply for a taj whitelist for a long time, but the way the lore presents itself and how it is portrayed on station is less than enticing. The only notable source of controversial content that piques heads while in-round is “will not help gays,” and while that is fine for character development, I don’t see how it’s supposed to open the floodgates for potential tajara players.

I remember the NKA event a few months ago and it was exciting, but lately I feel like the incorporation of lore on-station has been stunted with “shock factor dialogue.”

How do you plan to extend the lore to players who do not want to align their characters with these specific mindsets?

I know most of these questions are intended for Alberyk to answer but I just want to ask so I know the intent.

Tajara have been this way for about 4-6 years back when other people were lore developers/Lore master, and you say you wanted to apply for a long time but you also say you don't like how the lore presents itself.
I think I'm understanding this wrong but you wanted to apply to a species whose lore you don't like or is it something that has been recently happening/trending with the playerbase?

October 18, 2019

Sorry!

Maybe the way I phrased it was incorrect, I meant that my issue lays with how the lore is manifested on the station. I was more interested in applying when the focus was on the civil war, but now it seems that everyone has honed in on the homophobia rampage, leaving little else for other established and new players to witness.

You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I do play quite often and, as an observer, this has been the pinnacle of in-game lore representation.

Snakebittenn · October 18, 2019

37 minutes ago, BoxWulf said:

How do you plan to extend the lore to players who do not want to align their characters with these specific mindsets?

Peanut gallery, I have nothing to really say about the application itself that isn't anything positive that hasn't been said before, but.
You don't even have to be a homophobic taj. It's like, a footnote in the lore. Maybe two sentences at most. There's an entire rich sphere of Tajara lore and character concepts for you to make.
Besides. Removing negative aspects of the species just because it's overplayed recently is not the way to go. A society needs bad parts about it just as it needs good parts, it's what makes their cultural identity. Tajaran/Adhomaian culture shouldn't be for everyone.

October 18, 2019

8 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

Peanut gallery, I have nothing to really say about the application itself that isn't anything positive that hasn't been said before, but.
You don't even have to be a homophobic taj. It's like, a footnote in the lore. Maybe two sentences at most. There's an entire rich sphere of Tajara lore and character concepts for you to make.
Besides. Removing negative aspects of the species just because it's overplayed recently is not the way to go. A society needs bad parts about it just as it needs good parts, it's what makes their cultural identity. Tajaran/Adhomaian culture shouldn't be for everyone.

I agree... But like I said, lately it’s been the round staple. It’s a healthy source of controversy, but why is a footnote in the lore center stage in almost every round there’s a PRA Consular? Also, I never said to remove it. Part of roleplay is sometimes taking on characteristics or shouldering beliefs that you do not agree with OOCly.

I want to see other parts of the lore put in-round, like I said before with the NKA recruitment event. It would be cool, and different.

Coalf · October 18, 2019

2 minutes ago, BoxWulf said:

Sorry!

Maybe the way I phrased it was incorrect, I meant that my issue lays with how the lore is manifested on the station. I was more interested in applying when the focus was on the civil war, but now it seems that everyone has honed in on the homophobia rampage, leaving little else for other established and new players to witness.

You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I do play quite often and, as an observer, this has been the pinnacle of in-game lore representation.

Okay understandable, thanks for the reply.

October 18, 2019

Thats not what is being said Paradox. We are not advocating makikg tajara lore a safe space. I dont understand how you can interpret me so crazy uncharitably as if im a foaming sjw. What im saying is the tajara conservativism has no substance. Tajara are x and y because thats what the right in eastern europe is like. It is not like unathi where there are philosophies behind things like same sex relarionships about why they are viewed through certain lenses. The tajara cultural outlook is surface level. It just is.

So this is what characters latch onto.

My character not being homophobic has zero relevance on others using the shock value of state sponsored homophobia on station through THEIR characters. Which is currently a big thing.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

Itanimulli · October 18, 2019

The sheer irony of one player influencing the mindset of how others see a species, without pointing any fingers, has plagued a multitude of species thus far, the only exception, perhaps, being skrell.

The conflict that plagues Tajara are what make them who they are. Derivative or not of real life (everything in lore is, to a point, besides skrell being frog-vulcans), they are interesting and the interplay between factions on-station provides a clear picture that not everyone who leaves adhomai lets adhomai leave them.

Regardless of all this, I for one had no clue Alberyk wasn't the lore writer for Taj in the first place. I thought he and coalf were the main perpetrators of the major streamlining that the species recently received.

I find Alb to be somewhat abrasive, but that all comes down to my own purely subjective opinion. If they decide something should get done, it usually gets done, and it isn't done in a sloppy or incoherent manner, which is what one wants from a lorewriter. Politics should be in the forefront of every race here, unless they literally can't rely on them (dionae, basically). Alb has already done an absolutely splendid job and I see no reason he hasn't already been given the job.

Tl;dr Taj are cool and alb is cool, so giving alb taj will make them, like, super extra cool.

Alberyk · October 19, 2019

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-Tajara are writ like an invasive species. They reject integration and they are regulated into ghettos suffering high rates of crime and violence. It is difficult to play a tajara in a high ranking job without them being former nobility. This is meant to be like they are proud of their culture but it also reads like tbey are genetically incapable of integrating. In almost all mediums their presence is predicated on being an invasive presence. This ties into a later point about them being written as incompetent. What are you going to do with tajara's stereotypes related to these issues?

The tajara are relatively new to the galaxy community. Around 40 years or so, that is not really enough time for people to integrate, mostly when they come from a culture that had a really conflicted first contact, the first civil war was big and important. So, yes, most of them come from simple backgrounds and are used in cheap labor, it is not easy for poor people in this case. However, I believe that there are enough opportunities to play a character that has integrated into the tau ceti society, NanoTrasen offers them the chance to learn more, and the three factions have colleges and education centers that could give anyone enough education to become a head of staff.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-Tajara are incompetent at every level of managing themselves. The only place that wasnt crippled by administrative issuesnwas crevus but now its also controlled by a criminal oligarchy like everywhere else on adhomai. This will be my most contested point and I guess i do have a stake in it since i wrote it and it was accepted. But now there is no definitive location on adhomai that functions outside the monolith. The dpra and pra both still embrace the caste system as you said, which is why you wrote in the caste system back to crevus. and crevus having an egalitarian culture and government made certain elements very frustrated and there were hot takes about how the pra would shell the city for being so liberal. Why did you make this change and cite a rejection of the caste system as a reason, and strip democracy out of the city to have powerful mafias control it? Mafias kill people, so playing a former mobster makes your char a killer or have worked for killers instead of a group of hooligans who got tired of being bouncers and pickpockets.

That is due to the species being locked in a war for ten years, Adhomai is a place full of problems and struggle. It takes time to get things going and up to date. But, places like the pra do have good good results, as they were able to implement stuff like public education, publid health, public housing and etc, but everything has its own downsides. And no, the only faction that really accepts the caste system is the nka. Both pra and dpra are against it, and have different views on how to deal with it.

From the wiki:
"The Republican government seeks to create a single monolithic culture for the tajaran species under the ideological vision of Hadiism. The suppression of the ethnic caste system installed by the previous noble rule is one of the goals of the People’s Republic, that has been reached with little success, as such divisions are still deeply entrenched in the tajaran people."

"The government of the DPRA seeks to dismantle the ethnic caste system present intajaran society. Instead of creating policies and using the force of the state to do so, they believe that this goal can be reached by giving the necessary opportunities and freedom from external influences to the tajara species."

The issue is that Crevus existed as its own bubble, and it did not suffer any drawback from breaking from the norm. It is still a very different place from your regular city in the dpra, as its allows stuff like cassinos, tourism and the presence of NanoTrasen, something that you would not really find in the rest of the country. And I see little different from having mafia and gangs here, both are criminals, and both do crime. If you want to play a criminal character, that is fine, but you must understand what a criminal does. And just saying that they don't kill people or do any serious crime, is kinda off, mostly when the city was meant to have a really high social difference.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-Tajara have no tradition or culture to themselves, they're conservatives copy/pasted from eastern europe. So if you play an angry polish man bitching about gays and degenerates you can neatly fit into any faction. There are no distinctions except political. What do you think makes tajara wholly distinct? What philosophies are in conflict between tajara groups and archetypes that are not related to the model of government?

That is not true. Because humanity is pretty much paste this kind of thing, unlike the tajara, that sufferend a low of cultural and technological stagnation due to their story. And I don't think they have no tradition or culture, when the tajara team focused a lot on it, and create a lot of stuff, like the ones I linked on my application. And yes, it is based on that area and period, that is part of the specis' "hat", and their inspiration. Same happens with other species. I also plan to give each faction more distinct culture, I tried to do so in their own pages, which have a cultural section explaining how people live and the like.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-All tajara consular officers are the same. All of them that i and others have seen tend to be gag characters that want you to report gays. Do you want this to be their whole thing? What philosophy or culture otherwise can these characters latch onto? This is from the systemic issues above and below in this list.

I would be very cautious with generalization. I had a lot of interaction with and as pra consular officers that did not involve gay problems. Like helping people with regulation related to uniforms, and people protesting against pra by throwing fruits at the office. None of their directives are related to this, they have a lot of tools to create interesting roleplay with tajara and non-tajaran.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-tajara in their development history (that even i was a part of) are written to make stereotypical characters that are reactionary to trends of the time (usually furries making the devs mad) and these stereotypes (further eastern European conservatism) are enforced by a small group of very loud people whos hot takes tended to be about bringing back concentration camps, so tajara are sort of once again swinging to becoming a set of "ha, look at these fucking libtards" for a set of particular people to enjoy at an ooc level at the expense of anything pointing to tajara as more than the stereotypes that define them. What do you think about this?

I don't change the development to try to please people or tackle a problem that should have been solved with a simple talk over pms. I have no intention of bringing the camps back. And I have no idea who are those people, no one brings names to me or any other stafff about this. And from the only case that was brought to me, I looked into it, and found it was really ic stuff, and no one was trying to push any ooc agenda here. I have zero plans to change or accommodate any groups pushing any ooc agenda while I am writing lore.

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

-why does tajara lore reject all aspects of anti-authoritarianism/punk? The only competently ran faction that everyone finds natural and good are monarchists and everyone is either a nobleman or a dirt farmer. There is no longer a faction big or small with a freverent love of their own community, and outlets for characters that dont come from a monolithic set of authoritarianism or criminal backgrounds. Its all meant to be "heh, fuckin' commies" and thats the species. How will you address this?

They don't really. The nka and the dpra emerged from people that did not agree with the main rulling force, the pra at the time. In a sense, they are the opposition. We also have three factions, and some of them have their own subsects, creating a new faction that is against everyone might be too much now. And no, you can be more than a noble or farmer, the nka pages does describe the ways of life that a commoner can chose. But, people are free to be a tajaran that rejects all parties and is against the war, that is pretty much going against the system. Even if people complain about this kind of character, I believe they have their place and can be good, as long they just don't ignore stuff and have a good reason for their stance.

Alberyk · October 19, 2019

3 hours ago, BoxWulf said:

I’ll echo these questions as well...

Tajara feel more like the angry, conservative uncle that no one wants to sit next to at family gatherings

I’ve wanted to apply for a taj whitelist for a long time, but the way the lore presents itself and how it is portrayed on station is less than enticing. The only notable source of controversial content that piques heads while in-round is “will not help gays,” and while that is fine for character development, I don’t see how it’s supposed to open the floodgates for potential tajara players.

I remember the NKA event a few months ago and it was exciting, but lately I feel like the incorporation of lore on-station has been stunted with “shock factor dialogue.”

How do you plan to extend the lore to players who do not want to align their characters with these specific mindsets?

I do want to have more representation of the other factions on station, and this is part of my future plans. I can't explain more due to spoilers. I will give people incentivize to pick their own sides as well. I also believe that this problem is due to the lore making the pra the only faction that is recognized as the sole tajaran nation. This was too deep into the lore, that I could not do anything about it. But, this will change.

October 19, 2019

34 minutes ago, Itanimulli said:

The conflict that plagues Tajara are what make them who they are.

What is the conflict?

The civil war.

Why are they in conflict?

Because all three claim to be the right system for adhomai.

Why do we have these new systems?

Because they reject the old system.

How do they reject the old system?

??? The caste system? Authoritarianism? This is where things fall apart. None of the three factions explicitly reject or overturned anything from how things were before. There are no arguments that can really be made for why the old order was bad that is not repeated in the current three factions. There is no difference between the majority of DPRA and PRA character concepts that is intrinsic to those factions' impacts on an individual. As a former tajara main all arguments between characters of these factions are superficial and surface level. Why are tajara anti-gay? Because its "conservative". Why do tajara still embrace the caste system? Because theyre conservatives. But what does that mean? This is why i say its surface level differences. Its fine for the great memes we all share but im worried that the hints towards a slide back to sue-era caricatures imposing a reactionary disgust of furries and showing how libtards cant run a real country without any depth to the actual culture and why they are how they are will further alienate potential players who will skip it over. I know the sum total of what i outlined its why i no longer play tajara. And no, its not because i dont like bad stuff happening. Anyone that makes that claim knowing how ive set up and maintained unathi and how i am approaching this problem needs to take a nap because they're very tired and not making sense.

Its also not just one player who uses shock value. Its a recurring trend that metastasizes in ooc and ic.

Alberyk · October 19, 2019

On why they are against gay;

It is because their society was based on castes and bloodlines for centuries, not reproducing was something very bad, mostly for the nobility that used everyone else as their workers and soldiers. And as I said, they just got out of the control of the nobility, they are really behind humanity in a lot of fields.

From the wiki:

"Because of the Tajara's history as a repressive, conservative species, they have not grown too open-minded or liberal - unlike humanity's progressive views for example. Overt displays of affection and especially homosexuality among Tajara are looked down on and treated as a deviancy. There exists discrimination and bias against other races of Tajara - particularly against Zhan-Khazan for their purported low intelligence and rebellious tendencies. As a result, Tajara generally avoid interbreeding between races. An extension of the racism which prevents Tajara from breeding outside of their race can be found in the general public's extreme revulsion to notions of relationships outside of the species, an act which is considered an intolerable fetish to most."

Itanimulli · October 19, 2019

10 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

What is the conflict?

The civil war.

Why are they in conflict?

Because all three claim to be the right system for adhomai.

Why do we have these new systems?

Because they reject the old system.

How do they reject the old system?

??? The caste system? Authoritarianism? This is where things fall apart. None of the three factions explicitly reject or overturned anything from how things were before. There are no arguments that can really be made for why the old order was bad that is not repeated in the current three factions. There is no difference between the majority of DPRA and PRA character concepts that is intrinsic to those factions' impacts on an individual. As a former tajara main all arguments between characters of these factions are superficial and surface level. Why are tajara anti-gay? Because its "conservative". Why do tajara still embrace the caste system? Because theyre conservatives. But what does that mean? This is why i say its surface level differences. Its fine for the great memes we all share but im worried that the hints towards a slide back to sue-era caricatures imposing a reactionary disgust of furries and showing how libtards cant run a real country without any depth to the actual culture and why they are how they are will further alienate potential players who will skip it over. I know the sum total of what i outlined its why i no longer play tajara. And no, its not because i dont like bad stuff happening. Anyone that makes that claim knowing how ive set up and maintained unathi and how i am approaching this problem needs to take a nap because they're very tired and not making sense.

Its also not just one player who uses shock value. Its a recurring trend that metastasizes in ooc and ic.

It has nothing to do with the old system being bad. It's a clash in ideologies and methods that the new groups seek to replace.

Why are the tajara anti-gay? The same reason most nations undergoing conflicts are. No nation, and you can look at history to prove this, even blinks at progressive attitudes when it is a time of war. only in times of peace in prosperity are the smaller details taken into the spotlight, because the current spotlight highlights the need to be strong and unified. The greatest struggle for tajarans in lore seems to be securing power and consolidating it, so that their children might enjoy it.

Societies not rooted in the value of self-freedom often look down on the ideals of those who do not seem to be helping the whole. What was the difference between the factions in WW1? It rocked all of Europe in turmoil and yet none can be damned as evil. That's simply not how politics work.

Though, I'm not really here to discuss politics, but you did quote me in my post about war being the identity of the species....because it is, just like a different kind of war, shorter and more one-sided, is part of the identity of the unathi, and how a very distant war defines the attitudes of modern skrell. Hell, war defines the reason Beisel is independent at this moment and the entire reason Dominia exists in it's current state.

Edit: My own interpretations are superseded by alb's explanation, but I would like to state that it just proves my point about turmoil.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Itanimulli

October 19, 2019

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

My character not being homophobic has zero relevance on others using the shock value of state sponsored homophobia on station through THEIR characters. Which is currently a big thing.

It's never done for shock value. It's done because that's the lore you wanted when you allowed Hive and Sue to put it into place. It takes a big man to complain about the work he himself allowed to foster itself in our lore. If you ever had an issue with it, you were well within your rights as loremaster (READ: BIG LOREMIN) to forcibly change it in a way you wanted to. Instead you chose to ignore it, complain to me about using it, or complain to others about its existence.

That said, Alberyk/Coalf have done more for solidifying Tajara history and their culture as more than just russian/EE memes, so this is the only person I can trust that we have right now that won't bring us into another Hive/Sue dark-age.

Alberyk actually plays the species so he understands what works on station and what doesn't. I have the fullest faith he'll be able to handle this even better than he already does, as a current lore deputy.

October 19, 2019

There is a very big difference in being in a criminal organization that kills people, and one that does not. Someone with a history of pickpocketing charges and a history of 'Club Bouncer' or 'Casino Security' is very different from a former mobster that went out on hits for people. On top of that, the nonlethal emphasis was directly tied to the station. I saw crevans (and I myself) beat people up and leave them outside medbay, or not going full lethal. It was a cultural reason to IC'ly follow the rules of escalation.

I don't want to dwell on this because the more I do the more it probably becomes self-serving. I won't talk about Crevus here anymore.

21 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

Because of the Tajara's history as a repressive, conservative species

What are these conservative traditions and history? The rule by the ancient empires and racist nobility who used eugenics to build up distinct races to serve them. But why did Tajara rebel against this system only for it to go back to being the 'normal' in modern tajara?

Skrell in their history used to be super into AI, and then when Glorsh happened they rejected that old order, with their government, culture, and even religion going through very big changes. They rejected their old system and consistently keep to a whole new way of doing things because they do not want things to go back to how they were. A skrell conservative now is very different from a skrell conservative before glorsh.

Unathi are huge on tradition and honor and martial might and their entire outlook revolves around the 'why'. They have an entirely distinct view on relationships, with your class, sex, and where you are in the hierarchy of your clan have huge impact on what you can do and what you're expected to do. I have players talk to me all the time about how they or their unathi's unathi friend is going off to get into an arranged marriage, or how they are worried about their parents rejecting their new career goals.

Tajara have not had this because they are just....Conservative. The legacy of Tajara conservatism comes from an OOC reaction by the developer of the time to stuff tajara players were doing.

25 minutes ago, Alberyk said:

They don't really. The nka and the dpra emerged from people that did not agree with the main rulling force, the pra at the time. In a sense, they are the opposition

Again, the differences are superficial. What are the differences between a vanilla DPRA Tajara and a vanilla PRA character? Both should follow the suns, both think the caste system is bad, both have authoritarian governments.... I guess in the DPRA you can own a small business, but what, to you, are the current bonds that are built to hold tajara of these factions together? Why do I hate a PRA Tajara but bond with a DPRA Tajara?

Edited October 19, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

October 19, 2019

13 minutes ago, Menown said:

It's done because that's the lore you wanted when you allowed Hive and Sue to put it into place.

This is the last time I will ever talk to you about this and I will not reply to anything you post about this. This is for everyone else: As I said before: it was the wrong call. I was swept up into the same reactionary attitude. It was over three years ago. What I am pointing out here are the attitudes of this era slowly starting to creep back in and I find it concerning so that is why I am talking to the applicant.

edit:
I also don't want to write treatises and overwhelm the applicant so if there is anything in alberyk's replies to these latest posts I will probably just wind down and do shorter responses or something.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

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