Suggested Change to Soporific

[niennab]

I wanted to put forward the idea of Soporific being more akin to a full body numbness, allowing characters that either need to be sedated or held still through medical means the ability to still role-play. Or, I want to suggest that the time Soporific lasts in the body is greatly reduced.

Presently, as it stands, Soporific has a high chance of ultimately ruining an antags gimmick or (more over) a player's round because it ultimately forces them into a state of nothingness.

As an example, on a round of Rev/Loyalist, I brought the Head Loyalist to medical, whom was bleeding out and near dying. At this point, they were effectively unable to fight however a player decided that they would force feed them soporific, effectively removing the player from the round. What followed was the Head Loyalist essentially being stuck asleep for quite possibly close to 10 minutes before a shoot out occurred, and the Head Loyalist, without the ability to even run or talk, was killed in the crossfire. Although the solution won't solve the issue of being able to flee, it does allow the player to do more than watch a flickering black screen.

Ahelping aside, I think this would reduce the amount of times this may happen. I will admit even early on in my time on the server I made the same mistake of administering soporific to a vampire (whom was already cuffed and stuck in a bed) at Security's request. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by niennab

[Pratepresidenten]

Do you mean like.. Potassium Chlorophoride, minus the lethal part?

[Happy_Fox]

Perhaps an "out of body experience" which allows them to observe what goes on around them but they forget what they've seen when they wake up.

[niennab]

9 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said:

Do you mean like.. Potassium Chlorophoride, minus the lethal part?

Yesss! I wasn't aware we had something similar (other than the lethal bit). My hope was for a paralyzing effect (other than the character's mouth and ears).

[Pratepresidenten]

It would be cool to tweak this, ye. Its pretty garbage for things that isnt lame imo. And considering surgery can deal with lung shit by Thanosing them into the sleep realm using neural suppressors, sopo is.. No longer useful or required?

Specialized drugs, lethal or not can be used to knock someone out for a kill or abduction, so Im all for a removal/rework of sopo!

24 minutes ago, Happy_Fox said:

Perhaps an "out of body experience" which allows them to observe what goes on around them but they forget what they've seen when they wake up.

Not a fan of this at all. It will only lead to problems if you mean allowing them to ghost around their body, even within a certain range.

[Shenaanigans]

I'm definitely behind this. Having a sedative around is nice, non-lethal option to have for dealing with antags but I know from experience that being put unconscious for long periods is no fun. The person should still be able to at least see and hear what's going on around them, and speaking would also be good for facilitating RP while keeping the person immobile.

[Carver]

So.. Sopo turns from slow-acting sleeping into an equally slow-acting parapen-type chemical? Eh, why not I guess. I expect a lot of terrible torture RP from this.

[Peppermint]

Mm.

 

This makes it almost better than oxycodone as a painkiller, which seems a bit backwards. It'd have to have a low pain threshold, ideally. Not entirely sure how I'd personally change it though, as it certainly gets old being force fed soprof mid fight.

[Happy_Fox]

1 hour ago, Pratepresidenten said:

It would be cool to tweak this, ye. Its pretty garbage for things that isnt lame imo. And considering surgery can deal with lung shit by Thanosing them into the sleep realm using neural suppressors, sopo is.. No longer useful or required?

Specialized drugs, lethal or not can be used to knock someone out for a kill or abduction, so Im all for a removal/rework of sopo!

Not a fan of this at all. It will only lead to problems if you mean allowing them to ghost around their body, even within a certain range.

More of a "They can only see/hear what's going on directly around their body" so its less boring.

[Pratepresidenten]

Thats just paralysis, Im pretty sure. You're there, perfectly capable of  seeing and hearing.

You're alive, just horizontal.

[Seeli]

Antagging with good roleplay and escalation is hard, sopo is just an added deterrent to try.

Sopo only pacifying by paralysis, not 100% knocking out of the round, would let them stay in the flow of the rp. That's a very nice change.

[Doxxmedearly]

Having it be a paralyzing agent that leaves you awake seems very strange to me. A more thorough solution might be to rework how drowsiness affects people and make it make someone extremely sluggish, but that is perhaps a lot of work for the purpose of the thread. 

If having it too readily available is too tempting for players, we could remove them from the nanomeds and have them be chemistry-only. Less people walking around with it on-hand that way. That, or just outright remove it, because prate is correct in that we have neural suppressors now for operating tables. Sopor's main purpose died with that. 

I feel that it is too strange to have it be something that leaves you awake, but also numb, but also able to speak and hear just fine. That's almost what dextrotoxin does and that's considered a toxin. I think the suggestion of making it filter through a person's body faster makes much more sense. Especially if we also make it less available. I do agree that it is an extremely frustrating thing to do to a person. 

[furrycactus]

Sopor is still a vital tool in performing emergency surgery if you can't access an operating table. Tramadol isn't enough (and shouldn't be used anyway) for doing surgery while the patient is awake, and getting most pharmacists to prep oxycodone for any reason gives you funny looks. Anesthetic tanks still exist I suppose, but they're not always an option, especially not with vaurca; and if you're in a situation where you can't use the ORs, you generally can't grab a tank of anesthetic either.

[Doxxmedearly]

Fair enough, I did overlook those circumstances. Removal is out, then. I still stand by it no longer being needed in nanomeds, as there isn't much need for it outside of emergencies, and perhaps having it metabolize a little faster. It seems the temptation to use it is too high for how available it is. Maybe keep an emergency bottle somewhere in a locker or prep area in addition to chem-only. The numb-paralysis option still does not appeal to me as a solution, however. 

[niennab]

Would having it be required to be made by a biochemist/pharmacist help the issue? It may still happen with that route but I suppose the chances of misuse are greatly reduced.

[Doxxmedearly]

I feel like it would. If the issue people have is "soporific is weaponized too much" making it less available would be at least a good first step to try IMO.

[Pratepresidenten]

5 hours ago, furrycactus said:

Sopor is still a vital tool in performing emergency surgery if you can't access an operating table. Tramadol isn't enough (and shouldn't be used anyway) for doing surgery while the patient is awake, and getting most pharmacists to prep oxycodone for any reason gives you funny looks.

I mean.. How often is this a thing? Why keep a now defunct drug that takes ages to kick in, where in the time you could probably have built an operating table or broken your way into someplace that had one. If it truly was an emergency and they needed surgery RIGHT NOW, it'd be better to dose them with tramadol and just have at it. Work with what you got if the situation is that fucked up.

Im not completely against having like ONE bottle stashed in some MedID locked place within medical, but the odds of not having any type of chemist to make you some chloral/oxy is very low.

Just my two cents!

[Doxxmedearly]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8536

Attempting removal from nanomeds for now. We can take more steps after if it keeps being a problem.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Doxxmedearly